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Thread: When an officer asks questions - take the fifth on all their questions

  1. #1
    George Dakkak -'s Avatar
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    When an officer asks questions - take the fifth on all their questions

    Do not let a law enforcement officer see it [your ID and Badge Wallet]. Use your fourth ammendment insist on the fourth ammendment. take the fifth on all there questions . it is our constitutional right not to talk to the police and not to let them search. a right not used is a right lost.

  2. #2
    Donna Reagan's Avatar
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    Re: When an officer asks questions - take the fifth on all their questions

    Sorry, George, but the US Federal Appeals Court disagrees.

    Here is what their ruling says:

    "May 25, 2007

    "A police officer may ask a citizen for identification and use the information garnered from the request, even if the officer has no reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed, according to a ruling from the Sixth Circuit on Thursday. Generally police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur — a situation known as a Terry stop. Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.

    "In the case at hand, an officer followed a car in a neighborhood that had recently had a number of burglaries. The driver parked in an empty building’s lot, then got out and made a phone call. The officer parked, walked over and asked if there was a problem. The man said he was lost and asking his girlfriend for directions and handed the cellphone to the officer to prove it. The officer then said he’d like to see the man’s I.D. so he could log the encounter. The man hem and hawed, said he didn't have I.D. on him, and then told the officer a name he often went by, but which had no record of a driver’s license. The officer then patted him down, asked to see what was in his pockets, found drugs and then found a loaded gun in the car.

    "While the lower court threw out the drugs and gun as evidence, ruling that the officer had actually seized the man by asking him for identification, the Sixth Circuit reversed (.pdf) that saying that a request from an officer for identification is just a request and a citizen should know they are free to walk away.

    "In practicality, that’s not how citizens interact with cops and declining a cop’s “request” is going to make any cop suspicious and lead them to further investigate you. But as a matter of law, if you are a citizen on the street and a cop asks you for identification, you have MORE legal protections if you say no and force them to find or make up a reason to initiate a Terry stop.

    "Instead of showing identification or saying you don’t have any or don’t want to show it, simply ask “Am I free to go?” And you should never consent to any search of your person or bag or car, even if you are told you will be in more trouble if you don’t.

    And refusing to identify yourself when in the midst of a Terry stop can land you in jail, depending on your state’s laws, according to a recent Supreme Court decision known as Hiibel. The story behind the cowboy who fought the law and lost in that case is here:


    ***********************

    And another account here:
    Fighting for Right Not to Show ID
    By Ryan Singel - February 27, 2004

    "Dudley Hiibel, a Nevada rancher who covets his privacy, didn't want to hand over his identification to a police officer in 2000. His refusal landed him in jail and his name on the U.S. Supreme Court's docket.

    "At issue in the case, which will be heard March 22, is whether individuals stopped during an investigation of a possible crime must identify themselves to the police. Nevada state law says that individuals must do so if a police officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or will be committed.

    "Hiibel's attorneys argue that in such situations, known as Terry stops, individuals already have the right to not answer questions and that requiring individuals to show identification violates the Fourth and Fifth Amendments' protections against unreasonable searches and self-incrimination.

    "Hiibel, 59, who lives in rural Nevada near the small town of Winnemucca, began his journey to the Supreme Court after police responded to a report of an altercation between Hiibel and his daughter in Hiibel's pickup parked on the side of the road.

    "Hiibel was outside the pickup when deputies arrived and asked for his identification before asking about the alleged fight. A tape of the incident shows Hiibel refused 11 requests to produce identification, after which the deputy arrested him for impeding a police officer.

    "Police then arrested Hiibel's daughter, Mimi, when she protested the arrest of her father. Both were charge of resisting arrest and the domestic violence charges against Hiibel were later dismissed.

    "He was, however, found guilty of obstructing a police officer and fined $250, but the public defenders on the case appealed the conviction to a district court and the Nevada Supreme Court.

    "Those courts upheld the conviction, but the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review the case in October 2003.

    "In his first media interview in three years, Hiibel said he hoped "the Supreme Court will uphold the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and that all Americans, not just me, have the right to privacy."

    "I feel quite strongly I have a right to remain silent and I didn't commit a crime," Hiibel said. "(The deputy) demanded my papers. I exerted my rights as a free American and I was cuffed and taken to jail."

    "Harriet Cummings, one of three Nevada public defenders working on the case, said that while the case might seem like "no big deal," the legal issues at stake are huge.

    "This goes to the very nature of what our society is going to be like," Cummings said. "We believe that exercising your right to remain silent should not be something that can cause you to be imprisoned."

    "If an officer acting under suspicion that a crime has been committed comes up to a person, starts asking questions and demands identification, and if the person, as Mr. Hiibel did, declines that demand, they can be hauled off to jail," Cummings said. "And we think that is not something that should happen in a free society."

    The court upheld the police right to insist on identification, and the defendant lost his case.


    Want more on your rights? Go here:
    http://flexyourrights.org/faq

    Moral of living in the 21st Century USA: Unless you are prepared to spend the night in the drunk tank at jail, be reasonable with encountering a law enforcement officer. They are under considerable pressure to stop terrorism and crime. This does not mean you have to give up your rights, but understand what your rights are - and more importantly, have a business card with you that has been lawfully approved by the legal department of the International Private Investigators Union (IPIU). Since 1989 when IPIU as founded, we have never had a single member (over 70,000) ever arrested when they carried the approved items that IPIU endorses.


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  3. #3
    George Dakkak -'s Avatar
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    Re: When an officer asks questions - take the fifth on all their questions

    i have read flex yourrights .org i have the belt clip if i had the wallet i wouldnot put my dl in my wallet.

  4. #4
    Kim Collins - is offline Lifetime Corporation Member

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    Re: When an officer asks questions - take the fifth on all their questions

    Everyone should know their rights, and then teach them to their children.

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