Thank you.Originally Posted by Samir Tulic
Thank you.Originally Posted by Samir Tulic
Samir;Originally Posted by Samir Tulic
You have worked for Diamond & Illinois Security. What type of PI job are you speaking of ?
Bill
Dear Kevin;Originally Posted by Kevin E Stroud
I wonder if the problem might be they don't know how to advertise the work. Do you have any ideas there ? It is a portion of the field that I have needed once and that would have come in helpful a couple of other times, but not anything that I get into myself.
You sound like you will good to go for the test; however, you won't be able to take it until September. If you have a target audience that you want to go after you might want to sever ties with your current firm, so that there will not be a problem taking clients you developed when you leave. It would seem to me that you are in an area where you could go after that type of work without being licensed. The worse case scenario would be for your current/past employer to learn your plans and make complaint on you. Otherwise who would know that you are not licensed or that you are doing investigative work -vs- computer work? By the time things would be said and done you would have already taken the test.
When you get up and running look me up in Chicagoland under Investigations as you are a useful contact with a talent that I will most likely need in the near future.
Bill
What is a TAN card? Is this an Illinois thing or something else entirely?
Kevin, your situation interests me for a few reasons. One of which is that you're working part time for a PI agency in Illinois and applying that experience towards your PI application. The application at "Examination - Based on Education and Experience"
mentions a requirement for full time work for an agency. Since I also want to work full time in one job unrelated to investigation while I work part time for a PI agency I want to know how proceeding through this process goes. I've heard that as long as the agency signs off on your hours, you will meet the requirement, but I would like to hear about someone's recent experience.
It did not occur to me that there would be an Illinois employment practice. I was mostly concerned about keeping my current employer happy-- they will be concerned as I pick up more hours as to whether I have enough time and energy to focus on the current job. I don't think there will be a conflict that falls under this practice since my employer sells a product totally unrelated to security and my role with them is not directly related to security.Originally Posted by William G Sheehan
Finally, like Kevin, because my background is in IT, I am also interested in computer forensics. One thing that I have found in reading about this is that PI agencies as employers of people with computer forensics skills will prefer people with law enforcement and criminal justice knowledge over computer knowledge, and train them in the computer knowledge they need. Is this a fallacy? Or does it just make it all the more important to get law enforcement exposure for those people to set themselves apart?
In Illinois then, where we need to get agency experience to get a detective license, is someone with an IT background better off marketing themselves as an independent consultant in computer forensics and foregoing the license? How would that limit their activities?
Dear Kevin;Originally Posted by Caitlin Howell
The worse thing that will happen is that the DPR, (Department of Professional Regulation), will tell you that you need a license. The way things are setup they can not fine you if you are not licensed. Sounds odd, but first they would ask you to stop practicing without a license, if they knew about you and if they determined a license was required. Even then they would most likely grant you an extension to practice without a license to give you time to get one. If you refuse to follow their requests/advice the they could go to the Attorney General’s Office and have them issue you a cease and desists order. The true purpose behind having people to be required to be licensed is to protect the public, (require liability protection); make sure people performing the work are trained and to collect funds in the order of licensing fees. As far as I know the DPR is the only State Agency that does not require monies from the general fund to operate.
Bill
Dear Caitlin;Originally Posted by Caitlin Howell
Yes, a Tan Card is an Illinois thing. To my knowledge it is the only item that will allow non law enforcement personnel to carry a weapon in the State. It is issued under the Private Detective Act, so you must be employed as a Private Detective, Security Officer or Alarm Contractor to even get one. If you are able to get one it can only be done at the request of your employer and then it is issued to your employer in your name. You are required to turn the card in to your employer upon termination.
The act further says that you may only carry the weapon with you during your hours of employment and up to an hour before and after your shift to cover your commute. The card will state the type of weapon you can carry and requires that you receive the 20-hours training on the use of the weapon and re-qualify with the weapon whenever you need to renew the card which is valid for five years.
One good thing about the Tan card is that it allows you to own and possess a firearm in Chicago. If you knew Chicago’s laws, you would know that, that is a big thing. If anyone is interested in knowing the rule that allows you to supercede Chicago’s law on firearms let me know and I will send it to you.
Bill
I'm not practicing without a license now - and don't plan to! - just have to jump through the hoops to get a license on my own, but that's a long range goal that I'm still navigating and the laws just recently changed to make that even tougherOriginally Posted by William G Sheehan
Caitlin - the Illinois "Firearm Authorization Card" (FAC) is tan in color.
Kevin
I certainly wouldn't want you to practice as a Private Investigator without a license, but given your special skills, I wonder if there is a place for you to work as a consultant in computer forensics without having a license, and how not having a PI license would legally limit what tasks you could do? Or actually-- I'm wondering if this is something I could do.Originally Posted by Kevin E Stroud
So the FAC = the TAN? And this card is not the FOID (the generic Firearm Owner's ID) which does nothing to allow you to carry a firearm within Chicago's city limits. I have a FOID but not a FAC.
Bill,Originally Posted by William G Sheehan
I just had to jump in here on this one my friend. Most people that live outside Illinois don't understand that Chicago is really a state within a state. lol I live south of I-80, and I can tell you that for the most part the laws are different for those of us living south of I-80
Michael Robinson
Caitlin-
I'm just an independent sort of guy I guess! Actually, the technology company I own/manage is 10 people (plus I own another commercial real estate company) so I'm not sweating the business end of running my own operation. Also, since I'm not an independent Agency, there are limits (such as being able to have a FAC, which I get through my employing agency).
Yes, the FAC=TAN, which is not the FOID - got enough stinking regulations in this state or what?!
I'm moderately well-versed on the Illinois firearm statutes and you want to be extra careful even having an unloaded, disassembled, locked-in-a-case firearm within the Chicago city limits with just a FOID card. Basically, if you're a resident then it's completely illegal to own a handgun, if you're "just passing through" then it supposed to be legal but if discovered by an officer then expect to have it confiscated and then you get to hassle with getting it back. With a FAC/Tan card you can legally carry in Chicago, but there are many other exclusions you need to be aware of (schools, government buildings, etc.). And don't take the word of any semi-anonymous Internet jockey (such as myself ) on this stuff - read it for yourself and understand it! The Illinois compiled statutes are at this link: http://www.ilga.gov and you need to lookup 720 ILCS 5/Art. 24
Regards,
Kevin
Hi Kevin... My name is John and I was referred to you by Bill Sheehan because I was inquiring about computer forensics... That is one of the area's I want to get into... Can you advise me of any reading materials or classes that offer subjects in this area of investigation... What suggestions would you have for a new kid on the block...Originally Posted by Kevin E Stroud
John
John,
First question is: are you a geek?
I'm not saying that forensics is an unlearnable skill (nobody was born knowing this stuff!) but it does take years to get comfortable and understand the relationships between hardware, operating systems, and numerous applications.
Personally, I have undergraduate degrees in Math and Computer Engineering, then a Master's from Johns Hopkins in Software Engineering, plus a PILE of Microsoft Certifications.
So, step one is be (or become) a really good geek in general. Step two is to start dabbling with some of the data recovery programs and keylogging applications.
Kevin
Hi Kevin... No, I don't have any certifications or a degree in the area, but I had one of the first home computers and have been dabbeling in computers sinse they were first made available on the home market... I have a friend that has a computer business that pretty well knows his way around a computer that I may incorproate his help... I know I will have to find some tallent in that area to work with... Can you suggest some data recovery programs or keylogging apps that I can get familiar with... Is there anyone that gives classes on computer forensics... Thanks for the information...Originally Posted by Kevin E Stroud
John
Thanks Bill,Originally Posted by William G Sheehan
You have been so helpful.
PI FPorter
Chicago and Illinois I call tyrants.. That is what they are.....unconstitutional laws that violate the 2nd ammendment and bill of rights as well as the state constitution.
That is why i dont live in the City and further support its tyranical ways.
Someone wrote that in order to get a FAC card ( Firearm Authorization Card) you ned to take a 20 hour course. The 20 hours course is one all Investigative Employees need to take before working for a particular agency. In order to recieve the Fac card...it is necesary to complete a 40 hour Firearms course. ( 20 hrs- Clasroom & 20 hrs -Field)
Now when applying for the card make sure you are applying for the correct one. If you have one for a Propriatery Security force this DOES NOT enable you to carry a weapon as a private detective. You must complete the course for a PRIVATE DETECTIVE.
Additionaly there are 3 diferent weapons to certify for.
Semi-Auto
Shotgun
Rifle.
If you are not qualified in each you may not carry that weapon.
If you work for a company you will work under their PI license and their Insurance ( which is costly) for Firearms. Uppon leaving you will not be authorize dto cary your weapon.
If you have your own PI license than things are diferent assuming that you have all the neccesary insurance policys, etc. in place. You are then responsible for yourself.
As you are a licensed private investigator full time you may carry your weapon full time. (certain restrictions apply)
Am i mistaken that you may start to work for a company while awaiting your perc card to be finalized?
Thanks up front,
Marty
Marcin:
I stopped here for a moment and I read your posts. You've really been doing your homework in my opinion. Let me respond however to your question regarding the Permanent Employee Registration Card here in Illinois, based on my tenure as a one time Human Resources Director in the industry. It is true that IDFPR will allow you to work while awaiting the issuance of your PERC. It is an Agency decision however, as to whether the they will hire you at that state of processing, and many will. Primarily you need to verify proof of the necessary training via your certificate and a copy of your PERC application, just prior to mailing, as verification that you have applied. The HR Director will be bound to check you application status which will most likely open the door to you if they like you otherwise. You then should notify the company as soon as you've received your card, ending your tenuous status. Hoped this has helped.
I realy appreciate your help. Now im sure.
David:
I saw the reply you posted regarding Illinois's Licensing laws. By any chance, would have Michigan's handy? Thanks!
Mark E. Juppe
Mark E Juppe,
You wrote: "I saw the reply you posted regarding Illinois's Licensing laws. By any chance, would have Michigan's handy? Thanks!"
Answer: Just go back to the LICENSING FORUM FOR PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS and look further down the long list of state titles for the Michigan Topic. If you still get lost, you can always post a question in your personal Introduction Topic where the online trainers and moderators can direct you.
Cynthia
Cynthia Ford
Administrator - IPIU
----------
Thanks.Originally Posted by Cynthia Ford
Anytime.Originally Posted by Robert Donovan
I have read through the Illinois law regarding the requirements to be a licensed private investigator but it seems like you have to work for one agency or other licensed professional for 3 years out of the last 5. Maybe I am reading this wrong but I know that IPIU allows training from many different agencies. Will this be a problem when it comes time to apply for my own license?
I don't believe IPIU will be a problem with the Department of Professional Regulation. You will have to either go to work for a licensed PI Firm for 3 years, or 1 year with a 4 year degree, I think. One thing you should really get your head around is the exam in Illinois. Man! It is really some kind of test!!!
How many fire extinguishers are required for a building which has 15 floors, and an estimated 600 people employed in it during the average work day?
How many sprinkler heads are required when each floor has 4 separate hallways 15' & 25' paralel?
There is so much that deals with alarms, fire safety, etc. that I really don't understand how they can call it a Private DETECTIVE exam.
You may want to look into another state. Up to you.
Mark E. Juppe
Perhaps, but applying for your own agency license as the owner with the help of IPIU will probably save you years of time because of the allowances the agency application permits owners to own rather than to have the experience. For Level 4 union members, go to the member forum titled OBTAINING YOUR LICENSE.Originally Posted by Alan Nylund
That's because over half of the assignments a licensed agency performs does not reuire a PI License. But the PI License allows the agency to advertise for all of those assignments. Carefully read the exemptions in the statutes.Originally Posted by Alan Nylund
Make sure you keep very accurate records of your earnings, the type of assignments, the employers, and all of the other details. Experience is a funny thing. You may be surprise to learn that record keeping is the key to obtaining all of your experience.Originally Posted by Alan Nylund
Also understand as an agency owner, using another fully licensed PI to manager your cases, you inturn can do the assignments under their management and be paid as a trainee at the same time of earning owner profits and experience ratings.
I'm located in Michigan too, now. I don't believe Michigan has a test for licensing. I believe all you have to have is so many years of experience, and pay the licensing fee, get the insurance, yada yada...
I do have the regulations. However, I will have to dig them out. If you don't mind waiting for a couple of days, I can let you know. But you might get faster results if you just call the secretary of state's office, in Lansing.
Regards,
Mark E. Juppe
Thanks for that useful information. In the training manual I remember it saying something about being able to own an agency without a PI license and gaining experience from that. I guess that is something that I will look into. How do you get a PI with a license to agree to something like that anyway? I have to say that it seems a bit scary to jump into an ownership like that but then again you don't get anywhere without a few risks, right?
As Tech Support suggested, the answers are in the Level 4 members forum titled Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License. There is no risk to the IPIU plan becuase you hold all of the cards.Originally Posted by Alan Nylund
Cheryl, speaking of a PERC card, how does one obtain one, and do I need one, even if I've lived in the U.S. my whole life?
I'm about to complete a program for personal interest, which will also just help with investigative experience.
If one wants to offer their services in workers compensation surveillance or do video surveillance, with not as much experience as the 'licensed' investigaor, IS there any suggestion you can give to me about how to do this? I am told one wouldnt need a license to that , per-sey in Illinois from what i gathered. I NEED more info about how I may obtain experience in networking for this job? please advise.
I did receive some information this week that was Very useful . I also dont mind traveling 50 + miles for the experience.
Thanks
Jon;Originally Posted by Jonathan Persky
Yes it would require you to be licensed. The only way around that would be if you worked for a company, (not an investigation company), and did work only for them. Say you worked for Kraft Foods and did only investigations for them. In that case and in only that type of an instance you would not be required to be licensed.
Any time you advertise investigative work you are required to be licensed.
Suggestions about surveillance, yes, I have several. Generally I train someone in that for over a month before letting them out on their own. There are techniques and rules and equipment to know. There are some books on the subject; however, I have OJT to be the best.
Some books that were written on the subject were done by a Chicago area guy named Bill Kizorek, who founded & operated InPhoto, a large surveillance company that was bought up by a national outfit.
I think you can still get his books through the following:
DISABILITY OR DECEPTION
CLAIMS DETECTIVE TRAINING MANUAL
PSYCHOLOGICAL CLAIMS INVESTIGATION
Also, regarding another post, there is nothing in the Illinois PI test about fire extinguishers or sprinkler heads. That could be covered as part of the Security Contractors test, but not under the PI exam.
There are Four sections of the Illinois DPR’s test. There is the general questions (100) that everyone must answer on State government; 50-questions for PI’s; 50-questions for Security Contractors and 50-questions for Alarm Contractors.
If you are only going for your PI license you would answer questions 1 to 150.
If you are taking all three you would answer all 250 questions.
The study material guidelines they provide are good and if you apply yourself to them you will pass the test. These are something that you will have to order and pay for.
FYI
Bill
Jon and Bill and others,
The previous off-topic discussion was moved to the following Level 4 members area:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27218
And to Bill, your union dues expired along with your Level 3 and 4 access. Please click on the following renewal link:
http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/i...4d4fcdd9426244
All my best,
Robert
Illinois is very stringent on their licensing requirements and if you work for someone else, you do need to obtain a PERC
Well licensing laws are stringent in Illinois, correct, more so in other states, just an fyi.
There is the oppportunity for folks to succeed in the industry, if the diligence is there
I wanted to make a remark on the Perc Card .
It takes a fingerprint card , an easy $40-$50 fee to satisfy a few years, and some application time (quick state felon/criminal check) It's not as diffiicult to obtain if somebody is prevailing in the security industry here
thanks
Does anyone know how long it takes to receive your PERC card? I applied for my PERC after I took the 20 hr. course on 1/28/06 and I'm still waiting. I've tried calling Springfield three days straight and got placed on hold for 20+ minutes.
It normally takes 2 weeks for you laser finger prints to clear and then the PERC is sent out after the IL DPR gets all of your paperwork. In most cases it takes anywhere from 2 weeks after your fingerprints clear to 2 months. IDPR is backed up right now.
A tan card is a 40 hor fire arms training card
Robert;Originally Posted by Robert Donovan
Check your records! You do not appear to be up to date.
Bill