PI LICENSING: Ohio

[Paul Shuman]

Now, at no additional cost, the big HOWEVER. One of the rules in hazmat management is that you never really know you’re doing the right thing until someone of authority tells you you’re not in compliance. Same thing applies to the OH PI regs. Somebody in a position of authority may eventually decide what the regulation really means, and then sanction someone (or a bunch of someones) who are not in compliance with the now “official” interpretation. How is it resolved? You guessed it, it’s called a hearing, a trial, your day in court. So, one additional element to this analysis is to search the court records and see if there have been any challenges that affect an interpretation of the rules and regulations pertinent to our discussion.

I didn’t find a single one. That’s not to say there isn’t, but I didn’t come across it. (I did find one case where an unlicensed PI from another state was an Expert Witness in a trial in Ohio, and the opposing counsel challenged his standing as an expert without a license. The decision? The regulation doesn’t require an out-of-state PI to have a license in order to testify in court. If the regulation doesn’t bring you into its scope, do your thing!)

Just for my safety, one more time . . .

Beginning of the DISCLAIMER

I am not a lawyer. I don’t even play one on TV. What I have done for longer than I care to remember is interpret and implement various hazardous materials (hazmat) regulations in the commercial and government sectors. My evaluation of the Ohio code and regulations regarding PI licensing is based on my experience in regulatory research and interpretation in the aforementioned area of expertise. Therefore, the following is provided as furthering the discussion, and not as authoritative guidance.

If you want to know more about me: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19151

End of the DISCLAIMER

That’s my conclusion, so don’t worry ‘bout it. By my count you got three beers left. Have one and let me know where I'm w-r-o-n-g.

Thanks for listening!

[Paul Shuman]

Although it may not be violative of the law:

Example 3 complicates the issue by making you an independent contractor. My answer is: So what? It actually makes the issue less complicated! Let’s read it again: “the conducting, for hire, in person or through a partner or employees . . .” Doesn’t say independent contractors. Remember what I said so long ago - if you don’t meet the definitions, you are outside the regulatory jurisdiction, and you are free to pursue your dreams. Not defined, not regulated, go to work and when you’re done – that’s right – get your remuneration and break into one more brew. Good for the licensed PI firm, too, they don’t have to register you!

I have definitely changed my mind:

Hello Members,
I would like to put my 2 cents in on this topic as an agency owner in Indiana. I only sub-contract out to other licensed agencies. If I hire you under my license your are an employee of my agency I withhold taxes(which I have to match) You are covered under my insurance, I pay for your workmans comp. if you use your vehical you are covered under my insurance, if you use a company car your still covered. As an employee you are not paid $40 to $75 an hour. You are paid an hourly rate ,overtime after 40hrs. As being licensed under me you can not work for yourself as a licensed Private Investigator because you are granted a license by me to do my Investigations.
Should a person try and do so I will take away his license and will send a form to the Department of Licensing and this will make it very hard for you to ever apply and get your own license when you are quailified to do so. This is the way that I do business at my agency.

Good Luck to all,
David

(David Martz's comment orginally posted in the thread PI Agency Insurance: Cheap?)

I realize this is based on Indiana law, however, note that the individual will only subcontract out to licensed agencies, and draws a clear line between subcontracting as a Licensed Independent Contractor and employees.

My gut feeling is that working as an unlicensed Independent is asking for trouble, no matter what the law says (or doesn't say).

Just my (reevaluated) opinion.

[Leonard Chenault]

My input on this is, make it simple and as you acquire your enjoyable hours toward your licensing the knowledge you get as you progress will qualifie you to be all you can be!!!!! I think it is better to have than not have????? I want mind now thanks for the sharing of information.
asap Leonard

[DJ Moran --]

Are we all not covered under working for IPIU? Thought this is why the training and assignments were being offered through IPIU!! I am not ready to start my own business of this type, and will continue to learn as much as possible, before applying for a licenses in the state of Ohio. Maybe I will relocate,when ready to start my own business?? For now, thanks for the information, even though I may not completely understand all of it,It is something to research on my own, and find even more answers.I think I would probably try to work for a PI firm, or law firm, before starting my own business anyway. Being unsure of what all avenues, I want to develope in this field,There are sooooo many) I think I will be patient and get the hours needed, in the event, I want to go out on my own, Thanks for sharing all the information, "DJ"

[Paul Shuman]

Are we all not covered under working for IPIU? Thought this is why the training and assignments were being offered through IPIU!! I am not ready to start my own business of this type, and will continue to learn as much as possible, before applying for a licenses in the state of Ohio. Maybe I will relocate,when ready to start my own business?? For now, thanks for the information, even though I may not completely understand all of it,It is something to research on my own, and find even more answers.I think I would probably try to work for a PI firm, or law firm, before starting my own business anyway. Being unsure of what all avenues, I want to develope in this field,There are sooooo many) I think I will be patient and get the hours needed, in the event, I want to go out on my own, Thanks for sharing all the information, "DJ"

DJ -

First, read the up to date info for Ohio at the official Ohio website. From an earlier post of mine:

PI's are now regulated by the Ohio Department of Homeland Security. Information is available at http://www.homelandsecurity.ohio.gov/pisg.htm.

If you are looking to set up a business as a PI, visit the Ohio First Stop Business Connection website at http://www.odod.state.oh.us/onestop/. Follow the instructions to get all the documents you'll need to start the process of building your business. When asked for the type of business, search "Private Investigator" to get the right docs.

(These sites can be accessed from the homepage at http://ohio.gov/.)

Second, here's a bunch more of my opinions having been here for a couple more months:

For Anti-Piracy, I think what happens there is that we fall under one of the exemptions because we are actually working under the auspices of an attorney's office.

For Integrity Investigations, I think this type of activity does not meet the regulatory definition of PI.

If you read the statute and find that it is unclear, you may try to get an explanation of what the law really means from the Ohio Department of Homeland Security. I wish you good luck if you take this path. I had no luck.

Something to consider, and I'm not doing anything here but stating a fact: As far as I know, IPIU is not a registered business entity (in the legal sense) in the state of Ohio, and is not licensed as a PI firm in the state of Ohio. In that case, you are not "covered" in any sense when doing work through IPIU. If the work is clearly under the exemptions or outside the regulatory bounds, then fine. Otherwise, you have to look at the law and decide on a risk-v-benefit basis if what you are doing is within the scope of the law. Being a resident of Ohio, it's between you and the laws of your state.

One more point - in other threads where I have had related discussions, licensed PI's from other states have made one thing clear: if they need PI work done in Ohio, they will only request it through a Licensed PI or PI Firm.

My bottom line: IPIU is a great resource, but has no bearing on my decisions to pursue PI activities under the laws of the state of Ohio. Some may disagree, but this is my working position given all that I have been able to digest since I joined.

[Jeffrey Roemer]

DJ,

My name is Jeffrey Roemer, and I am the President/CEO of Intelquest Investigations in Dayton, OH. If you are requesting to work for an agency in Ohio, we may be able to help you. It is legal for you to work as an investigator under our license, and build the investigative experience you need to acquire an Ohio Private Investigator's License. If we can be of any help to you, please feel free to email me at jsroemer@intelquestinvestigations.com

Take Care & Happy Holidays
Jeff

[Paul Shuman]

DJ,

My name is Jeffrey Roemer, and I am the President/CEO of Intelquest Investigations in Dayton, OH. If you are requesting to work for an agency in Ohio, we may be able to help you. It is legal for you to work as an investigator under our license, and build the investigative experience you need to acquire an Ohio Private Investigator's License. If we can be of any help to you, please feel free to email me at jsroemer@intelquestinvestigations.com

Take Care & Happy Holidays
Jeff

Jeff -

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the input regarding working under a firm's license.

As you may have read, the question I was dealing with early on was the issue of working independently and unlicensed. Although there are exceptions, they seem to me to be limited in scope. Therein lay my early discomfort.

The ideal situation for any trainee would be to either work for a licensed firm/individual, or a job that falls into the exemptions, in order to get the requisite experience to become licensed. Right now, I'm good with what I'm pursuing, but certainly other trainees in Ohio would benefit from your assistance.

Thanks again.

[DJ Moran --]

DJ,

My name is Jeffrey Roemer, and I am the President/CEO of Intelquest Investigations in Dayton, OH. If you are requesting to work for an agency in Ohio, we may be able to help you. It is legal for you to work as an investigator under our license, and build the investigative experience you need to acquire an Ohio Private Investigator's License. If we can be of any help to you, please feel free to email me at jsroemer@intelquestinvestigations.com

Take Care & Happy Holidays
Jeff

Dear Mr. Roemer,
First and Foremost, Thank you!! I will be contacting you and forwarding my resume to you at the e-mail address your have provided. I appreciate your interest in helping me, in any way posssible. Thanks again, and I hope to hear from you, after you have had time to review my resume.And ,You and your family have a " Wonderful and Safe" Holiday. Sincerely, ""DJ"

[Nyoka Holmes -]

Hello out there! I was wondering, once I have mailed and passed the test how long it would take for me to recieve information on employment from IPIU? Also, what are some of the benifits of being @ a level 1?

[DJ Moran --]

Hello out there! I was wondering, once I have mailed and passed the test how long it would take for me to recieve information on employment from IPIU? Also, what are some of the benifits of being @ a level 1?

Nyoka, Please ask your questions in the Introduction Lounge, so the moderators can better direct you in finding answers to questions you may have.
Click on this link
Forum Member Introduction's Lounge!

Have you posted your Agreement to our Code of Ethics yet?
If not, click on the following link, read it, and then post a Quick Reply that you agree:

CODE OF ETHICS http://(http://www.ipiu.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=6688


Here is another good link, A place to start
Newcomer? Do this FIRST!
Here is another link for you too:
If you just can't figure out which forum to post a new topic, do so in the Click here:After Hours Lounge Forum
And, Welcome to IPIU, Good Luck in your new adventures, "DJ"

[Dallas Rose]

Hello to All, My question is -Who do I contact for licensing information in Ks? Is there a Web site that lists all 50 States requirements? Thanks for any Help available. Dallas

[DJ Moran --]

Hello to All, My question is -Who do I contact for licensing information in Ks? Is there a Web site that lists all 50 States requirements? Thanks for any Help available. Dallas

Dallas, I do not know if the wesite below will help you in the information you need concerning KS. However, In the Licenses Law Forum there are many topics for each state. If the website is not helpful, then go to the Licenses Law Forum and read the topics for your state.


05-13-2003, 02:01 PM
Michael Briley
Link - https://www.accesskansas.org/kbi/pi...lpfulhints.html




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Donna Reagan]

Hello out there! I was wondering, once I have mailed and passed the test how long it would take for me to recieve information on employment from IPIU? Also, what are some of the benifits of being @ a level 1?

Nkoka,

If you have general questions and cannot locate the proper topic or forum, please post your question by authoring your Introduction Topic where the trainers and other moderators can guide you.

In order to do so, please click on the following Newcomer's link and perform Instructions #2 and #3:

http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthrea...&threadid=5008

[Greg Moeller--]

Thank you Joe,great info...

[Dale Papes -]

Look, in simple, plain English- not O.R.C "blah balh blah", if you have opotc security certification; are not working as a p.i; what do you need to do to get your p.i license in Ohio? And the packet they send from Ohio doesnt answer anything in plain English. What would one do to get licensed on their own - can they?

[Jessica Starnes]

Hi! I am new to this, however I am very interested in obtaining my PI license in Ohio. I'm not quite sure where to start. I did order an application, is that all I need to do for right now? Thanks for any input..

[Technical Support]

Look, in simple, plain English- not O.R.C "blah balh blah", if you have opotc security certification; are not working as a p.i; what do you need to do to get your p.i license in Ohio? And the packet they send from Ohio doesnt answer anything in plain English. What would one do to get licensed on their own - can they?

Please read Page 1 of this topic that was posted by Legal Affairs. Pay attention to the section titled NO LICENSE NEEDED as a private investigator.

Second, read further in the page that gives you the requirements you are seeking.

Third, if you still need help, go back to the packet you received and call their office.

Here is the link:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthrea...6&page=1&pp=30

[Jessica Starnes]

Thank you. That clears up a lot.

[Korey S Whitmore]

Hello, I am new to the forum and have a question about Ohio laws. I currently have my Security Guard state license in Ohio. Since I already hold this license are the steps to being licensed as a private investigator any different?

[Robert A Smith]

Rebecca (and Fellow Ohio Trainees) -

Here's some info you may find helpful:

THANK YOU JOE! This really puts things in a unique perspective and was just the type of thing I was looking for!


Bob

[Shawn Atkinson -]

Thanks Joe for all of your input. This thread has been very educational.

Congratulations D.J. on the opportunity given to you by Mr. Roemer! I'm sure everything went well.

Shawn

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Hello, I am somewhat new to these forums. However, as a Licensed Ohio Private Investigator, I am compelled to bring everyone up to date on this issue. As September 4, 2004, ALL Private Investigators and Security Guard Providers are under the umbrella of the Ohio Department of Public Safety through the Office of Homeland Security. Having said that, there are a number of changes taking affect to the laws of licensing of each. Now, I have read some of the post in this forum talking about doing work for private clients that fall outside the realm of the current law. THAT IS BEING CHANGED!!! No longer will businesses and individuals be able to perform this work without being licensed. I for one, totaly agree with this. As a member of OASIS, which is the reconized professional organization of private investigators and security gaurd providers in the state of Ohio, a close watch will be placed in the industry to seek out and prosecute those who are practicing investigations without a license. Currently, the Director of Homeland Security has prosecuted 6 individuals within the last few weeks for such a thing and he states he will keep doing so until EVERYONE knows that you MUST HAVE A LICENSE TO PRACTICE INVESTIGATIONS IN OHIO, with only a few of the 18 exceptions that you saw listed above.

The exceptions that most likely will remain will be "engaged in the practice of law" or working for someone who is. It is still a toss up regarding "Independent Insurance Adjusters". However, "Process Servers" and "Background Checks" will more than likely be gone within the next year or so. The jury is still out on the others. Basicly, just as the attorneys have the lock down on the practice of law, investigators are starting to do the same. Also, the Director of Homeland Security has hired investigators to work for his office in each of the 88 counties in Ohio to investigate any and all companies currently practicing "Process Serving and Background Checks" to advise them of the need to get licensed within the next year or so. He is also letting them know that if they don't, they will be prosecuted.

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Please keep in mind that just because you are able to work for an attorney as a private investigator, you are not. You may be hired and tell others that you are a investigator with what ever firm you are with, but you CAN NOT STATE THAT YOU ARE A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR. Furthermore, you cannot do work for anyone outside of the attorney's office and any work you do there, you are doing it as your normal course of business for a specific case that the attorney has. This means that you cannot go out and solicit business for yourself and then bring the person to the firm for the legal side of the case. This would be a violation of law as well as the attorney vicariously violating one of the cannons of ethics.

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

No! The state of Ohio will only give consideration for a degree either Associates in Private Investigations, Law Enforcement, Criminal Justice, or Paralegal and of course, they will give consideration to a Bachelor degree in any subject. As for the consideration, the state will take away 1/2 of the experience requirment should you meet the aforementioned education. Therefore, for the Class A, they will take away 750 hours of the patrol time and 750 hours of the investigative time needed; for the Class B, they will take away 1,000 hours of the investigative time; and for the Class C, they will take away 1,500 hours of the patrol time.

[Robert A Smith]

The exceptions that most likely will remain will be "engaged in the practice of law" or working for someone who is. It is still a toss up regarding "Independent Insurance Adjusters". However, "Process Servers" and "Background Checks" will more than likely be gone within the next year or so. The jury is still out on the others. Basicly, just as the attorneys have the lock down on the practice of law, investigators are starting to do the same. Also, the Director of Homeland Security has hired investigators to work for his office in each of the 88 counties in Ohio to investigate any and all companies currently practicing "Process Serving and Background Checks" to advise them of the need to get licensed within the next year or so. He is also letting them know that if they don't, they will be prosecuted.

Richard,

So how will this effect those of us just starting out as trainees in Ohio in your opinion? I know you can't say you're a PI without a licence that says so ( like I can't say I'm a doctor without a medical licence), but is this cloing most of the 18 exceptions that have been listed?

Bob

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Hi Bob: Trainees will be okay AS LONG AS THEY ARE WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS LICENSED. Trainees will not be able to go out and solicit work for themselves. They can however, work with a licensed attorney and work for them exclusively performing investigations. For the most part, that is where the trainees will have to stay if they don't want to get into trouble.

[Robert A Smith]

Hi Bob: Trainees will be okay AS LONG AS THEY ARE WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS LICENSED. Trainees will not be able to go out and solicit work for themselves. They can however, work with a licensed attorney and work for them exclusively performing investigations. For the most part, that is where the trainees will have to stay if they don't want to get into trouble.

Richard,

That's good. As I understood things, that's the way things were anyway. We get placed with a licenced trainer and can't do things on our own fo rthe most part. Thanks for the clarification! Was worried that now that I'm in the final stages before getting assignments that things were being changed in a bad way for trainees. I've been on that end of things too many times in the past, so was worried history was repeating itself again.

Bob

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Sorry Bob! I did not mean to scare you but I am concerned about those who finish their training here with IPIU and believe that at that point, they can call themselves "Private Investigators" in Ohio. They must know that they still must meet the requirements in Ohio for licensing and then get licensed in order to take cases on their own. Anything short of that, is practicing without a license and will land them in jail in Ohio.

[Robert A Smith]

Sorry Bob! I did not mean to scare you but I am concerned about those who finish their training here with IPIU and believe that at that point, they can call themselves "Private Investigators" in Ohio. They must know that they still must meet the requirements in Ohio for licensing and then get licensed in order to take cases on their own. Anything short of that, is practicing without a license and will land them in jail in Ohio.

Yes, you scared a bit of life out of me there LOL Thanks for the clarification! I just sent in my test & availability schedule, so I'm getting close to getting assignments now!

Bob

[Scott Bertwell--]

I have kind of an odd question. I am a licensed bail bondsman here in the state of Ohio. In the license regulations for PI in this state, it says you can work under an insurance agent's license. Now to my question, being as that the surety bail bond license is defined by the state as an insurance license, could I use that and work under my own license? I've done a few jobs for attorney's thus far, but wondering about this, as some guy wants to hire me for a surveillance job. If i can't do this, he is going to hire me through his attorney, I just didn't want to break any laws, Thank you for any information

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Hi Scott:

That portion of the law that allows investigations under an "Insurance" license was meant to allow employees ("Investigators") who work for insurance companies to perform investigations soley for that company. It was not meant to allow them to take on cases for their own benefit. However, an attorney can have any employee of theirs to perform investigations on behalf of the attorney. In addition, the attorney can have someone who is not licensed and hire them ad hoc for a case (not as an employee) and they would be able to perform the investigation(s) legally. Futhermore, as I understand it, OASIS and the state legislators have been working to make all bail bondsmen to come under the P.I.s. Meaning they must have a licensed P.I. either working for them or in charge of them. I can tell you that I currently have a well known bail bonsman company as one of my clients and I find where there people are and the other family member of their people, which allows them to go to the different addresses to retrive their bail jumpers. This is done with access to sophisticated databases accessible to only Licensed P.I.s and Attorneys. Having said that, I do believe that you would be in violation if you do not go through his attorney.

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Please forgive the misspelling of "there" where it says "I find where there people are". It should be spelled "their".

[Scott Bertwell--]

Ok that is kind of what I was thinking. Exactly why I knew this would be the place to ask the question and get a right answer Thank you for the quick response. He has a child custody case that he is preparing for and that is why he wants to hire me to dig up dirt on her. I will let him know that he will need to contact his attorney and have his attorney contact me. Again thank you for the response

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

You are welcome!! It is my pleasure. I too am involved in handeling a custody case to dig up dirt on the baby's mother. However, in this one. There are two different baby's mothers. The client is so mad at them, he is paying $5,000+ for the dirt. Therefore, happy hunting!!!

[Scott Bertwell--]

Wow, that is alot of money for a custody case, but I guess if they want to spend it, it's better for you The guy i'm gonna be working for is paying me $500 up front and just paid $60,000 cash on a bond to get out of jail and told a friend of mine, he would make it worth my time if i succeed in the case. However to me right now it's not so much about the money, I want the experience

[Richard M Jackson Sr -]

Wow Scott, $60K to get out of jail? Since the person only has to pay 10% of the cost, his bond must have been $600K. What did he do? I have only seen bonds that high for 2 and 3 time felons. Therfore, be careful regarding your relationship with him. Dont let him get too close to you.

[Scott Bertwell--]

He has a $50,000 bond with no 10% allowance, we were hoping to get get 10% so that it would only be $5000 but the judge wouldn't allow it.

Scott

[Tracy L Stephens]

Hello all, maybe someone can clarify this for me. In the state of Ohio can you work for BWC (workers comp) without a license, for the fraud dept? I want to investigate workers comp. fraud.

[Adam Houchen -]

I also have a question. I have completed a 2 year class in criminal justice through the vocational school. Can any of that time be of use to obtain a PI license in Ohio?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Adam

[Mikel J Burgan -]

Rebecca (and Fellow Ohio Trainees) -

Here's some info you may find helpful:

PI's are now regulated by the Ohio Department of Homeland Security. Information is available at http://www.homelandsecurity.ohio.gov/pisg.htm.

If you are looking to set up a business as a PI, visit the Ohio First Stop Business Connection website at http://www.odod.state.oh.us/onestop/. Follow the instructions to get all the documents you'll need to start the process of building your business. When asked for the type of business, search "Private Investigator" to get the right docs.

(These sites can be accessed from the homepage at http://ohio.gov/.)

A PI trainee is not defined in the statute as far as I can tell, but employees of licensed PI's or PI Corporations are well defined. Furthermore, the statute does not address unlicensed independent contractors. The focus is on licensed PI's and their employees. Having read this, I won't even begin to pretend I understand the extent of the regulations regarding PI trainees and employee status vs. independent contractor. Thus, my questions!

The definition of the business of Private Investigation is broadly written, and the exemptions (in contrast) are narrowly defined. These regulations, by my read, strictly limit the type and scope of work an unlicensed PI can do. The other side of the coin is that you have to have 4000 hours of experience in the two years immediately preceding license application, or an applicable degree and 2000 hours in the preceding year. To get a license, you have to have full-time trainee experience, so obviously unlicensed PI work is allowed under the statute.

How does one go about being an unlicensed trainee when it reads as if a license is just about always required, unless you meet the narrowly defined exemptions? Do you have to be an employee as a trainee or can you be independent? In other words, what exactly are the circumstances that one can gain experience as a PI, without being licensed in Ohio, in order to get licensed in Ohio?

Regarding the required experience, at some point (if you want to be licensed in Ohio) you have to work full-time as a PI trainee. Is there any flexibility in the experience requirement if you are full-time in some other profession not related to law enforcement or investigation and still want to be licensed (for example, getting the hours over a greater number of years)?

Hope the websites help, and thanks for any further info you, or anyone else, may have.

thank you this information has been a great deal of help for me