Shoplifting - A Life & Death Problem

[Michael Harris]

Flora,

Fathers who do their job as fathers make a real impact.

I did okay with my daughter, but she has her mother's mouth - a gutter mouth at times. I have heard this described as a "potty mouth"; I wonder which is more appropriate.

[Shelley M Parker -]

I know this is an older post, but I think that it is definitely a thread worth continuing or renewing. In the month that I have been involved in IPIU there have been a great number of new recruits....and I am a firm believer in the thought that "old topics deserve new blood every once in a while....its what keeps them good".

With that said, I am running across this thread for the first time, so here's my chance to offer my unsolicited 2 cents.

In my past life, I was an Asset Protection (Loss Prevention) Manager for a major retailer -and I supervised a team of 4 to 8 individuals. I was certified in interviews and interrogations and non-violent crisis intervention. This may sound a little extreme to the outsider, but to you members of law enforcement and PI's - you know this is necessary, and a good thing for retailers.

I have interrogated and interviewed employees (inside shrinkage), shoplifters and boosters. My youngest apprehension was 10 and my oldest was almost 60. All genders, races and ages, and professions for that matter. I was injured during a couple of apprehensions and handcuffed my fair share. I like to think that I was proficient in my skills as I received a confession or an admission everytime.

So, what's the point of my post you may ask? Why am I rambling? Well, because I think that my personal experience (witnessing shrinkage first hand) gives me great insight to the loss and harm caused to everyone. Loss is huge in the major retailer world, so I can only agree with, and imagine the detriment to the "little guy". The general population never fully understands the ramification of loss, but we do...as do loss prevention professionals, and law enforcement officers.

Responding to other's comments about kids and their reactions to shoplifting (getting caught) and their parents (which are usually just as bad)...I have many, many stories, and have experienced the full gammit of emotions.

If anyone wants to discuss general shoplifters, the long hours of overnight survelliance to crack internal theft cases, or boosters(which I find the most interesting)...I would love to renew this thread and branch it off into other areas.

Thanks to everyone, as always for their comments and insight. I continue to learn and grow everyday! You are a great group...to which I feel honored to be a part of.

[Josie Ray]

If anyone wants to discuss general shoplifters, the long hours of overnight survelliance to crack internal theft cases, or boosters(which I find the most interesting)...I would love to renew this thread and branch it off into other areas.

Please click here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthrea...663#post228663

[W Kotz]

Another story about setting an example. Years ago as a loss prevention specialist for a major department store in Washington, D.C. I worked in a store located in a primarily black neighborhood. I was one of 7 or 8 specialists working under cover. The store’s employees and customer were 98% black, I’m white. One day I caught a young man, about 10 years old steal something small. After getting him into the office we talked. I decided to call his mother instead of calling for transport from the local police department since he was truly sorry, was very polite and I could tell that he learned his lesson. When his mother arrived she talked very little to her son but let me have it with both barrels. The statement she made some twenty years ago still is very vivid in my mind; she accused me of just watching him because he was black. She couldn’t understand that there were no white customers in the store at the time I arrested her son. The thing that I want to emphasis is to never generalize. Shoplifters come in all colors, shapes, sizes and from all walks of life. My partner, who was still in training, quit his job when I brought his local bank teller in the office in handcuffs because he could not believe people like her could do something like this. Believe me when I say, that 75% of all shoplifters I have dealt with, had the money to pay for the merchandize they walked out with.

[Shelley M Parker -]

Wolfgang -

I would have to agree with you whole-heartedly about your recent shoplifting post. I can attest to each of your statements. I worked in two very different markets (for the same retailer) and accusations of racism, gender bias, economic bias were always a part of the day.

Regarding people of all walks of life, and your statement about most people having the money to pay for merchandise they lifted - well I am reminded of another story...of a man I finally apprehended for shoplifting....he was a regular. He drove a new (less than a year old) BMW and just happened to be a Dentist. Once apprehended, he admitted that he shoplifted for the thrill. The day I apprehended him, he had taken a 60 dollar portable CD player, yet he had over $500 cash in his wallet. He was highly educated, married, the father of three, a pillar in his community and live in a high dollar prestigious neighborhood. He thought he was invincible. Moral of the story, shoplifters do come from all walks of life.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[Robin M Ellefsen]

I spent over 15 years as retail grocery store manager. I can tell you from direct experience that if you are not aware of what goes on around you, shoplifting can indeed cost you YOUR JOB. I lost quite a few GOOD department managers because we knew of the shoplifting but obviousely you cant catch everyone. If you are in a heavy shoplifting area the shrink can far and away negate any profits incurred. The grocery industry on average makes a penny on the dollar. That doesn't leave much room for any kind of shrink much less the shoplifting type.

As far as process we would call the police on anything over $100. Anything under we would use discression as to how they handle themselves. Remorseful, we would make them pay, tell them not to return, and let them go. Cocky and aggressive, we'd call the cops.

as far as kids were concerned, usually a pen, piece of candy/gum, nail polish, etc. were the targets. We would use discression there to.

The problem that is not discussed is the fact that when you call the police for every shoplifting incident (including the kid with the piece of gum) they eventually become irritated and negative to the process and eventually begin to show up slower and slower to at times not at all. Its kinda like crying wolf too many times. We decided that we wanted them there immediately when we had someone that was very aggressive and unruly, so we curtailed the lesser calls and handled most of them on our own.

[Robin M Ellefsen]

Hey Wolfgang, with you sticking out like a sore thumb, I cant believe that anyone in that store would take anything. Everyone had to know you were undercover from the store. Of course I'm sure the little guy didn't know any better.

[Michael Harris]

Robin,

Traditionally, the margin in the large chain grocery stores is 2-3%. The only way they can stay profitable is to keep expanding. The smaller stores do not have that option and usually have a smaller margin.

Shoplifting is only part of the shrinkage - pilferage is still a big problem.

[Dave Sanz]

But the kid was only shoplifting!!!!!! What a stunning degree of ignorance, to say it nicely. "ONLY" shopliting? ONLY breaking the law in a lesser degree? You know what? My girlfriend works for loss prevention for a big retail store, and she has had a gun pulled on her for doing her job. She is only doing her job, but she can get killed over a stupid incident like that. I dont care how you look at it, a crime is a crime, and even though it might be overlooked, we all pay for those few who shoplift.

[Robin M Ellefsen]

Mike I agree, employee theft far and away trumps shoplifting. It's not even close.....The worse part of it is that most of it does not get calculated until inventory time which is too late. Thats why one thing I'd love to get into is the employee theft PI piece. There is so much out there....

The grocery chain I was at for 25 years (store manager for many of them) had 115 stores in Chicago. A lot of the small stores in high rent areas were making good money because their per cap was so high. I opened and managed a store in the inner city doing $600K a week (big store 70K sq. ft.) and making money there was unbelievably hard. The per cap was around $13. Everyday I could only imagine how much was going out the door, and I don't mean the front door. Its not size of store that dictates profits, its location, location, location.

Usually, the only way most all companies can survive is to expand. Even the big boys on Wall Street need to do that. You can not stand pat in the business world. Someone will come up behind you and pass you by if you stand still for one minute.

Mike Thanks for the response. Love talking retail. Take care.

[April Rank]

This article appears to have been written for an English language publication in Japan. I don't think the used bookstores give prices like that here in Arkansas!

It would be interesting to find out what the shoplifting patterns are for the bookstores here in the US. I am making a big guess that the franchises in the malls, and the huge super bookstores (with fancy coffees) take a bigger beating than the small neighborhood mom-n-pop bookstore.

On the other subject, getting punished for stealing at a young age helps us to learn NOT to take what isn't ours JUST because we want it.

On the otherhand, some teens wouldn't take it just because they want it. They know it is wrong, they've been punished as children. BUT, they are in a different situation now: with a group of friends who are doing it for kicks and putting pressure on them to go along with it.

It is the same with drug addiction. Lots of those people do know it is wrong and bad for them. They knew it at the beginning and were taught much better than that from their parents.

I know of some good kids who got into trouble this way. They knew it was wrong! They didn't even want to do it! Of course, there are a lot of the others who do come from backgrounds of nonparticipating parents, or parents who are bad examples like what was mentioned above. I guess those kids are the ones who are doing the enticing! But I'm writing this for the parents of good kids who haven't hit their junior high years yet.

Some of us are immune to such pressure when it comes to things like that. But some of us with the best of intentions completely cave in under peer pressure.

So while I am thanking God my parents put fear in me for stealing, I am also thankful that I was one of the ones who for some reason, was immune to that kind of peer pressure as a teen.

While I encourage teaching right from wrong, I also encourage doing whatever it takes to build your child's self-image to the point that they do not need to get their FEELING OF VALUE from whether or not they please their so-called friends. Easy to say, but I think I'll still be learning how to do this after my boys are grown and gone.

Let's just say it is something we should strive for.

[W Kotz]

April, you are so right regarding the kids and shoplifting. I seen many of good kids who did it because of pressure from others they hang out with. One of the things we have to understand is that the majority of the kids stealing are not bad kids and most will try anything at least once. It's our job to make them understand right from wrong. Thanks for your input.

[Vernon Jackson]

Robin,

Like you, I also spent many years in the retail business as store manager, district manager and eventually Director of Human Resources for a chain with operations in 48 states.

Our philosophy on shoplifting was the same as yours regarding calling the police. They do get tired of being called so many times for shoplifters who have taken items of small value. We tried to handle all shoplifting internally with our loss prevention staff and generally only called the police if the shoplifter became aggressive or violent and/or had concealed or tried to take items of higher value.

We had a situation very similar to Wolfgang's, where the store was located primarily in a black neighborhood with over 90% black shoppers. Being a white manager was sometimes difficult for all the reasons Wolfgang already mentioned. There was a gang of very bold "hit and run" shoplifters, who would come in at any hour day or night and grab very expensive items like leather coats and run out the door. The way we finally stopped them was to provide the police with their make of car, license tag number and their physical descriptions. Eventually the police found out that they were stealing these goods and selling them in a small store for 25% or so of the retail value.

But with that said, about 70% of our shrink was internal. This was where our loss prevention people had the most success - and saved us the most money. In fact, I firmly believe that the "hit and runners" were getting inside information as to staffing, best times to hit, etc.

Anyway, it's not going to go away - and there will always be a need for skilled and knowledgeable PIs in this particular area.

[W Kotz]

Amen, are you sure you didn’t work in the same store I worked in? We had the same exact situation with the leader coats. You are also right on the mark on the subject on internal theft. One of the things we were faced with constantly was the cashier selling merchandise to friends and family at a very very high discount rate, if you know what I mean.

[Vernon Jackson]

Wolfgang,

I know exactly what you mean. I had that situation also. Also had a district manager involved in selling expensive Nike athletic shoes by the case for little or nothing to some lower level punks working for the mob. That alone doesn't take long to ruin your profits for the year.

[Victoria S Kinney]

Good morning, I read some very interesting threads regarding the rise in shoplifting and how serious it has gotten. I used to be a loss prevention agent. I worked for a department store. While watching aprroximately 4 people lifting shoes and putting them in a baby carrier and waist bands of their warm up suits. Three of them decided that it wasn't worth it and put the stuff back. But this one young gentleman headed for the front door, and we were told to not stop anyone until they got past the point of purchase and not to chase them into the parking lot. After stopping the young man with the help of 2 store managers and putting one handcuff on him and was about to put the second one on, he went crazy and swung his arm up and cut my head open with the open handcuff and jumped in the car that was waiting for him at the curb. After talking to the police the officer said that it sounded like the kid was on drugs. The ones that shoplift have more rights than the store owners, because if they get hurt, they can come back and sue the store. Plus the owners have to watch for their own employees that help their relatives or friends shoplift by letting them get merchandise for about a 1/4 of the original cost. I got out of the line of business because the stores don't want to pay the loss prevention personnel anything. I was making $7.25 a hr. But I still watch people when I go to stores. It just amazes me. Thank you for letting me ramble. Everyone have a good day.

[Julie Mercer -]

I was making $7.25 a hr. But I still watch people when I go to stores. It just amazes me.

Victoria,
I know, isn't it amazing how SO MANY people complain about shopping lifting and the cost the is passed on to the consumer. But, they don't want to pay to have their merchandise protected. They would rather take the loss than compensate an employee. That blows my mind!
Julie

[Patti Schubert -]

Shoplifting is wrong. It doesn't matter if it is a single book to a hundred books to one dollar to ten thousand dollars. The end result will always be the same. Those business owners work very hard for every dollar they get. If you went by hourly pay you would be surprised that they don't make anything for the time and effect they put into their business. As a former business owner I know what it takes to stay in business. Stealing from a big business to a small business, we all pay with rising prices.

Patti

[Kristie L McKinley]

I would not call the store owner of the bookstore a murderer for the boy's death. He did not shove the child in front of the train. I will agree with those who have expressed it before me: good guidance early in life is crucial.
My mother is a no-nonsense type of person. If I was caught stealing, I am pretty sure she would have let me be arrested and go the jail. That would have been my lesson. I would have had to pay her back for any court costs, lawyers fees, and anything else related to my crime, plus being grounded for a really, really, really, really long time (if I was lucky).
When I was in the 8th grade, some of the students went on a field trip to the city jail. 'Scared the snot out of all of us. I do not know how widespread this is, but I have heard of programs where they take young people at danger of leading a life crime to go to jails to see how it is to be an inmate.
If we concentrate on prevention half as hard as we do on things that happen after a crime is committed, I think things could make a turn for the better.

[Katrina Burton Todd]

That was a heart breaking story. I do not have an opinion on weather or not the owner was right or wrong on how he felt he had to deal with shoplifters. But it was unfortunate that the child lost his life trying to escape for probably $3.00 worth of comic books.

Thanks for sharing,

Katrina

[Vickie J LaRue]

I can't remember where I seen it but on T.V. There was this Judge that made the shoplifters walk in the streets, with a sign on them saying, I am a shoplifter. That was punishment I thought that was cool! It should be mandatory.

Vickie J LaRue

[Colleen L Hayes -]

May,

Thanks for this thread. It really makes you stop and think doesn't it. I never would have realized a book store would have that many problems. I wonder how they get the books out the door.

This post was a real eye opener, thanks again for posting it.

[Hugh Brown Jr]

I do know that if it was me that I would watch the person hands at all times.I was going to a store to get a newspaper because I have just got up.I went to this store to get my paper and when the ladie was giveing me change something told me to look down and I saw her put some money in her pocket.I then responded by saying nothing and just took my change and left.

[Steven Lofing]

I suspect i recently was turned down for LP at a major corporation due to a entrance profile, i was told i was not a team player. I wonder? Do you need to be a team player when you are investigating shinkage as well?

[Hugh Brown Jr]

I would not worry about that you will get something better down the line.

[Ashley Mayne--]

Interesting story and thanks to everyone for thier thoughts too. I enjoyed the reading.

[Hugh Brown Jr]

Thanks Toney for the information.