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Thread: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

  1. #1

    William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William L. Vass View Post
    I am trying to understand the requirements for licencing in Virginia but I dont follow the technical stuff. I really would like to know the requirements in laymans terms. Thanks..
    William, I have been in a debate on another forum concerning this exact issue. I am not a PI in Virginia, however, I am a licensed bail bondsman and have operated under DCJS since they took over this industry. I may be able to shed some light on this subject for you. I will have to say that IPIU does offer a very concise and factual description of exactly what is needed in this state to operate as a PI. I think it is a bit overpowering to a novice who is trying to figure out exactly what he needs to do to operate as a "legal" PI in the state. Here is my condensed version as I see it... I am fairly sure that someone from this site will jump in and 'correct' me if I get it wrong... but anyway...

    It is my understanding that you can basically operate unlicensed if you are in the 'stable' of a licensed company doing their work or associated with an organization that is licensed and working under their apron. (Not necessarily a PI company, it could be a company doing investigating for its own processes).

    I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period. If you are already licensed in one of the states that has reciprocity with Virginia, then you are ok as far as I can tell.

    One of the first questions I saw you ask if IPIU was an accredited school with Virginia DCJS and I did not see a 'direct answer' so... according to the website I do not see anything directly associated with IPIU. Before I get pounced upon by IPIU, I will say that your courses may be great and fill a much needed nitch in the PI training regiment... but, as far as I can tell, you are not an accredited school in the state of Virginia.

    As an add on here... I would like to ask IPIU why they do not register with Virginia DCJS and become an accredited school and become a member of that list. I would certainly think that would be a tremendous feather in your cap and add to the professionalism that you certainly strive for on your site. I would also like to ask if IPIU is an accredited school in any of the regulated states as I am only involved in Virginia. I was told yesterday that Virginia has reciprocity with 6 other states related to many issues, PI being one.

    Virginia DCJS: http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/tra...Level=9&mID=33

    I hope this answers your question. I called DCJS yesterday and spoke to at least 3 people in the regulatory office including the lady that is just below the director... I specifically ask these questions and these answers were provided by the agency.

  2. #2

    Re: info on licencing in Virginia

    http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/ps/dire...archAction.cfm

    This will provide a list of 'entry level' PI accredited schools in Virginia

    and here is a list of 'inservice' schools for PI in Virginia

    http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/ps/dire...archAction.cfm

    and here is a list of requirements in Virgina for PI...

    http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/how...or.cfm#defined

    this should give you the items you requested in a bit of a more..... concise and detailed account.

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    Re: info on licencing in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    William, I have been in a debate on another forum concerning this exact issue. I am not a PI in Virginia, however, I am a licensed bail bondsman and have operated under DCJS since they took over this industry. I may be able to shed some light on this subject for you. I will have to say that IPIU does offer a very concise and factual description of exactly what is needed in this state to operate as a PI. I think it is a bit overpowering to a novice who is trying to figure out exactly what he needs to do to operate as a "legal" PI in the state. Here is my condensed version as I see it... I am fairly sure that someone from this site will jump in and 'correct' me if I get it wrong... but anyway...

    It is my understanding that you can basically operate unlicensed if you are in the 'stable' of a licensed company doing their work or associated with an organization that is licensed and working under their apron. (Not necessarily a PI company, it could be a company doing investigating for its own processes).

    I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period. If you are already licensed in one of the states that has reciprocity with Virginia, then you are ok as far as I can tell.

    One of the first questions I saw you ask if IPIU was an accredited school with Virginia DCJS and I did not see a 'direct answer' so... according to the website I do not see anything directly associated with IPIU. Before I get pounced upon by IPIU, I will say that your courses may be great and fill a much needed nitch in the PI training regiment... but, as far as I can tell, you are not an accredited school in the state of Virginia.

    As an add on here... I would like to ask IPIU why they do not register with Virginia DCJS and become an accredited school and become a member of that list. I would certainly think that would be a tremendous feather in your cap and add to the professionalism that you certainly strive for on your site. I would also like to ask if IPIU is an accredited school in any of the regulated states as I am only involved in Virginia. I was told yesterday that Virginia has reciprocity with 6 other states related to many issues, PI being one.

    Virginia DCJS: http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/tra...Level=9&mID=33

    I hope this answers your question. I called DCJS yesterday and spoke to at least 3 people in the regulatory office including the lady that is just below the director... I specifically ask these questions and these answers were provided by the agency.
    I will review this at a later time.

    However, regarding the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    I called DCJS yesterday and spoke to at least 3 people in the regulatory office including the lady that is just below the director... I specifically ask these questions and these answers were provided by the agency.
    1. Please provide me with the names
    2. Also, the statutory exemptions listed on Page 1 of this topic are from the Virginia Website. If you are stating the unnamed sources at DCJS indicated anything less than what is already posted and permitted under Virginia Law, then they presented to you items out-of-context of the complete read of the statutes.
    3. Perhaps you could type the actual questions and answers rather than interpret what your recollection was.
    4. Further, some of the links you provided pertained to a Registered PI (RPI) in Virginia, which is not a license PI. RPI's just pay a fee, take a class, and are issued an intern ID to locate an employer.


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  4. #4

    Re: PI Licensing: Virginia

    It is my understanding that you can basically operate unlicensed if you are in the 'stable' of a licensed company doing their work or associated with an organization that is licensed and working under their apron. (Not necessarily a PI company, it could be a company doing investigating for its own processes).
    What part of this is incorrect?
    I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period. If you are already licensed in one of the states that has reciprocity with Virginia, then you are ok as far as I can tell.
    I thought this statement was pretty simple and to the point...
    I specifically ask about a PI unattached to anyone and operating alone, legally in Virginia as a PI. This is what I was told. As to names, if you are questioning whether I called and are coming at me from that angle... I will only say that you may do the same as I and check out what I am posting here. I have no agenda, only trying to simplify a rather jumbled, confusing, lengthy list of laws and regulations that IMHO confuse many rather than clarify. Just because you have the correct information listed doesn't mean it is easy to wade through for clarification. These laws are often complicated and frankly what happens when you attempt to follow their guidelines often depends on who you run up against in your work. I have also found that you can talk to 3 different people and get 3 different interpretations of the same code... so frankly, I don't pay much attention to the names they give me unless they attach a title to associate it with... I will say that usually, when I have called DCJS on other matters, the persons I talk with use their 'first' name, which I find interesting and is one reason I don't worry about who they might be.
    One of the first questions I saw you ask if IPIU was an accredited school with Virginia DCJS and I did not see a 'direct answer' so... according to the website I do not see anything directly associated with IPIU. Before I get pounced upon by IPIU, I will say that your courses may be great and fill a much needed nitch in the PI training regiment... but, as far as I can tell, you are not an accredited school in the state of Virginia.

    As an add on here... I would like to ask IPIU why they do not register with Virginia DCJS and become an accredited school and become a member of that list. I would certainly think that would be a tremendous feather in your cap and add to the professionalism that you certainly strive for on your site. I would also like to ask if IPIU is an accredited school in any of the regulated states as I am only involved in Virginia. I was told yesterday that Virginia has reciprocity with 6 other states related to many issues, PI being one.
    I was sort of interested in your addressing this point... without "double speak"

    Why is it that I seem to get the impression that many of the folks on here are in some sort of a confrontational mode... I post for clarity on a very complicated matter of different laws in different states... my being in Virginia where regulation and/or licensing is required as an "individual" operating as a "sole proprietor". I frankly am not particularly interested in a debate over "double speak" discussions, which is what I am seeing in many of the post not only on this subject but in other areas. I am sure you have a great track record but I think you can understand what I am saying here.... phone calls to DCJS take little time and verification on what I have posted can easily be checked, unless your purpose is simply to take off in another direction.
    I would like to ask IPIU why they do not register with Virginia DCJS and become an accredited school and become a member of that list.
    Also, is IPIU listed as an accredited school in any of the regulated states? Please understand, I am not trying to be confrontational here, simply asking a direct question. I know you have provided great information and developed schools in many areas, but are you accredited as a training school in any regulated states.

    I would appreciate your responding to my questions above, which I believe are to the point and pertinent to this thread.

  5. #5
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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Bill,

    I have split this off into a new discussion for Legal Affairs to answer - so that the Licensing Topic can remain.

    Expect Ms Ryan to return to reply after the office reopens after the holiday.

    In the meantime, enjoy the other topics of discussion.

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Ok, thanks David.

  7. #7

    Re: PI Licensing: Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriah Crawford View Post
    In oder to work as a PI in VA (exceptions aside) you need to be *registered* not *licensed*. Once you are registered (after completing a VA-approved training program and getting a background check done), you can work (as an employee) for a licensed personal security services company, or you can form your own licensed company.

    To do the latter, you need to either employ or become a Compliance Agent. In order to be qualified to become a compliance agent, you need to have either 3 years of supervisory level experience in the military, law enforcement or a related field, or have 5 years of other experience in the military, law enforcement or a related field. Note that you may be able to use a wide range of experience to qualify for the 3 or 5 years.Let me know if you still have questions.Meriah...
    After going back to 2002 and reading other posts, I can tell you that this particular one is right on the money and not having a clue who this lady is... I just want to thank you for clarification in a simple, concise manner that uncomplicates a lot of legal jumble on this and other sites. Thank you Meriah.
    ... and as an add on here... any of the administrators or legal staff that were gonna respond to my posts need not at this point. This lady has laid it out just fine. I have no other points to make.

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    Re: PI Licensing: Virginia

    I would only make one suggestion. That you do your own investigation into the requirements of each state they can walk you through the process. You will find that in Virginia if you are doing regulated PI work that you have to work for a Licensed PI business, and Virgina does allow some other states to work here as well. All that information again is on the Va DCJS Site.

    Again do your homework and you will always do the right thing.

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meriah Crawford View Post
    In oder to work as a PI in VA (exceptions aside) you need to be *registered* not *licensed*. Once you are registered (after completing a VA-approved training program and getting a background check done), you can work (as an employee) for a licensed personal security services company, or you can form your own licensed company.

    To do the latter, you need to either employ or become a Compliance Agent. In order to be qualified to become a compliance agent, you need to have either 3 years of supervisory level experience in the military, law enforcement or a related field, or have 5 years of other experience in the military, law enforcement or a related field. Note that you may be able to use a wide range of experience to qualify for the 3 or 5 years.Let me know if you still have questions.Meriah...
    After going back to 2002 and reading other posts, I can tell you that this particular one is right on the money
    The key phrase she used is "exceptions aside", which are the 20 exemptions listed by Legal Affairs that an unregulated private investigator can perform.

    She also mentioned that registered PI's (who have no prior experience) can start their own agency using a sponsor who is a compliance agent. IPIU offers an upgraded membership which is designed to make that happen working with other IPIU licensed PI's who can both meet the compliance agent qualifications plus be willing to be the sponsor.

    However, the owner of an agency does not have to be a Registered PI, as long as the compliance agent is in place to perform or manage the regulated cases. This leaves the owner to perform the unregulated portions of the cases. Still, with a sponsor in place, the owner should take the academic class to become registered so as to work all cases.


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    Re: PI Licensing: Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCarty View Post
    You will find that in Virginia if you are doing regulated PI work that you have to work for a Licensed PI business, and Virgina does allow some other states to work here as well.
    I replaced the word "legitimate" with "regulated". All work listed in Post #1 by Legal Affairs is legitimate. Unregulated work is not illegitimate. It is simply unregulated.
    Quote Originally Posted by John McCarty View Post
    you have to work for a Licensed PI business,
    Criminal and civil private investigators who work for an attorney (employer-employee basis) need not work for a licensed PI business. This is among the other 19 exemptions listed in Post #1 by Legal Affairs.

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period.
    That is correct if you are going to advertise as a private investigator agency or a self employed private investigator.

    But an unregulated unlicensed person can advertise themselves for many of the routine PI types of cases without a license as long as they avoid using the name private investigator or investigative agency and other types of regulated words and phrases. No one needs a license to find someone. It's how the person and the company advertises their business name and employee title.

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    Re: PI Licensing: Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    Why is it that I seem to get the impression that many of the folks on here are in some sort of a confrontational mode...
    If you are referring to IPIU Administrators, then we are required to enforce the Mission Statement, Oath, Code of Ethics, and Forum Rules everyone signed. But I would disagree the admins here are authoring confrontational posts.

    If you are referring to licensed private investigators who dislike the presence, promotion, and encouragement of unlicensed PI's to work unregulated cases, then they are simply short sighted and perhaps do not like the competition. Many licensed PI's got their start working as an unregulated PI.

    If you have links to posts you are referring to, then I can look at them.

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Mr. Marx,

    I beleive that you broke it down well. The other thing that I was tring to get across was to assure that you do your own homework as well.

    John

  14. #14

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Understood John, and thanks. My only thought was to 'possibly' obtain a PI license as an individual in Virginia simply to acquire the added access to information and possibly help in certain aspects of recovery work on my own clients. I am aware of what qualifications are needed, I just had a few points to make.... I read and usually understand requirements and regulations but frankly, I seem to see mixed signals in IPIU's many threads and posts and a very wide array of misunderstandings and confusion as to licensing requirements... ie: registered/licensed/regulated, etc. etc.... and also, frankly, reading continually and attempting to simplify or understand sometimes has the opposite effect and ends up creating more confusion. I'll just drop it and take care of it on my own. The only question I really would like an answer from is why IPIU has not become compliant or certified in the many states that require schools to become such. It would seem to me that becoming a certified school in these states would be a tremendous feather in their cap and would enhance their statue in the PI and LE community. But to date, I have not seen an answer to this question. I may be mistaken here and they may already be compliant in some regulated states, but to my knowledge, Virginia is not one of them.

    I understand that they have a very wide variety of material that is designed to train and educate but with this much on the table, I would think it would be in their best interest to become compliant in as many regulated states as possible.

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    I will have to say that IPIU does offer a very concise and factual description of exactly what is needed in this state to operate as a PI. I think it is a bit overpowering to a novice who is trying to figure out exactly what he needs to do to operate as a "legal" PI in the state.
    We have already listed twenty (20) statutory areas of private investigation for Virginia where it is "legal" to operate as a private investigator without the need for a personal state PI license. They are:

    1. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator who is employed by a business who performs his duties for his employer.
    2. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and furnishing information regarding an individual's financial rating. This exception shall not apply to private investigators as defined in § 9.1-138.
    3. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator employed by an attorney or certified public accountant licensed to practice in Virginia.
    4. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator mystery shopper, known as "shoppers," employed to purchase goods or services solely for the purpose of determining or assessing the efficiency, loyalty, courtesy, or honesty of the employees of a business establishment.
    5. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator who conducts investigations as a part of the services being provided as a claims adjuster, by a claims adjuster who maintains an ongoing claims adjusting business, and any natural person employed by the claims adjuster to conduct investigations for the claims adjuster as a part of the services being provided as a claims adjuster.
    6. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Private investigator who (i) exclusively contracts directly with an agency of the federal government to conduct background investigations and (ii) possesses credentials issued by such agency authorizing such person, subcontractor or employee to conduct background investigations.
    7. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator end user.
    8. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A private investigator products supplier who renders advice concerning the use of products sold by an electronics security business and who does not provide installation, monitoring, repair or maintenance services for electronic security equipment.
    9. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: A an employed as a security officer, or receiving compensation under the terms of a contract, express or implied, as a security officer, who is also a law-enforcement officer as defined by § 9.1-101 and employed by the Commonwealth or any of its political subdivisions.
    10. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Any person appointed under § 46.2-2003 or § 56-353 while engaged in the employment contemplated thereunder, unless they have successfully completed training mandated by the Department.
    11. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Unarmed regular employees of telephone public service companies where the regular duties of such employees consist of protecting the property of their employers and investigating the usage of telephone services and equipment furnished by their employers, their employers' affiliates, and other communications common carriers.
    12. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Members of the security forces who are directly employed by electric public service companies.
    13. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Any professional engineer or architect licensed in accordance with Chapter 4 (§ 54.1-400 et seq.) of Title 54.1 to practice in the Commonwealth, or his employees.
    14. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Any private investigator who only performs telemarketing or schedules appointments without access to information concerning the electronic security equipment purchased by an end user.
    15. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Any certified forensic scientist employed as an expert witness for the purpose of possibly testifying as an expert witness.
    16. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: Members of the security forces who are directly employed by shipyards engaged in the construction, design, overhaul or repair of nuclear vessels for the United States Navy.
    17. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: An out-of-state central station dispatcher employed by a private security services business licensed by the Department provided he (i) possesses and maintains a valid license, registration, or certification as a central station dispatcher issued by the regulatory authority of the state in which he performs the monitoring duties and (ii) has submitted his fingerprints to the regulatory authority for the conduct of a national criminal history records search.
    18. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: The legal owner of personal property which has been sold under any security agreement while performing acts relating to the repossession of such property.
    19. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: An officer or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth, or a political subdivision of either, while the officer or employee is performing his official duties.
    20. NO PI LICENSE NEEDED if: An end user.
    Source Link

    It has been IPIU's mission to add further clarification to each of the state's statutes when a prospective or union member requires such. This is provided on an as is basis when warranted. When there is a consistent pattern of confusion, we will add the updated notes to post #1 or #2 in each topic. However, in general, the current presentation in each state has been well understood by most. We also offer escalated one-on-one help in the private member's section of this site.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    It is my understanding that you can basically operate unlicensed if you are in the 'stable' of a licensed company doing their work or associated with an organization that is licensed and working under their apron. (Not necessarily a PI company, it could be a company doing investigating for its own processes).
    What you describe is contained in the above list of statutory exemptions.

    In addition, there are other statutory provisions for an independent person (who is not employed by a licensed company) who may perform assignments similar to the same cases a private investigator undertakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period.
    That is correct.

    To advertise lawfully without the required state license, the operative would need to use a different title than "private investigator" or "investigative agency", which phrases are regulated by the Department of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS).

    However, lawful examples include:
    • Case Examiner
    • Operational Analyst
    • Intelligence Agency
    • Data Retriever
    • Court Records Recovery Agent
    • Judgment Analyst


    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    If you are already licensed in one of the states that has reciprocity with Virginia, then you are ok as far as I can tell.
    That is correct, within limits of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    One of the first questions I saw you ask if IPIU was an accredited school with Virginia DCJS.
    • The International Private Investigators Union (IPIU) has its own Department of Education (DOE) which covers 203 countries worldwide. The role and bylaws of the DOE does not provide either becoming a licensed private investigator or compliance agent in order to satisfy the Virginia requirements, or becoming a licensed school in 50 states of the USA (or any of the states and provinces of the 203 countries worldwide). Many of the licensed schools in Virginia are publicly funded as community colleges, which again is not permitted in the bylaws of the DOE.

    • The DOE is accepted as a vocational organization for academic training and job placement by other various government agency departments. Our vocational program packages, which are funded by the state vocational department, include:


      • PI Laptop (includes associated PI software, aids, and subscribed passcoded internet resources )
      • IPIU Union Membership
      • IPIU Basic and Advance Training Courses
      • On-the job placement as an interim unregulated lawful operative
      • Registering the student through their local community college to satisfy the DCJS requirements
      • Advanced DOE certifications, based on student's profile of interests, skills, and aptitudes.
      • Placement aid with a licensed agency for regulated cases.


    • The DOE already aides its union members to acquire 3rd party certification which meets or exceeds the Virginia Training Exemption 6 VAC 20-171-445 through the use of a qualified instructor.

    • There are already sixty-one (61) training schools authorized by the DCJS, including several community colleges offering the same course, including in-service online courses, which would preclude the DOE from providing redundant services.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    As to names, if you are questioning whether I called and are coming at me from that angle...
    To promote a theory or alternative interpretation of statutory laws requires a named source. The documentation of a first and last name is a routine and disciplined habit whenever a private investigator takes a witness statement, or in this case takes a statement from three state employees who are offering an official response to public inquiries.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    I will only say that you may do the same as I and check out what I am posting here.
    Our department, Legal Affairs, does not get entangled in telephone conversations with unnamed state employees who may have potentially misrepresented the statutes to a third party. If we receive a complaint from one of our union members who was verbally given misinformation, then we have a name and we know where to go from there, which will be Leonard G. Cooke, Director of DCJS, who was appointed under the governor, Tim Kaine. This procedure is how it has been done in the last twenty years, and its success has always sided on what our department, Legal Affairs, has posted in the licensing topics based on the statutes and not how someone chooses to interpret otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    I have no agenda, only trying to simplify a rather jumbled, confusing, lengthy list of laws and regulations that IMHO confuse many rather than clarify. Just because you have the correct information listed doesn't mean it is easy to wade through for clarification.
    If you choose IPIU Union Membership and wish to apply, hire, or work within the twenty (20) statutory exemptions listed above, then you have no need to feel confused. Your higher access will entitle you to personal one-on-one help where it will eliminate altogether any perceived confusion in speaking to unnamed sources. That is what our department offers to union members that non-members simply have to interpret correctly on their own or hire an attorney. But that depends on your agenda of seeking either a PI license or the ability to hire unlicensed unregulated people lawfully.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    Just because you have the correct information listed doesn't mean it is easy to wade through for clarification.
    Look at Post #1 in the Licensing for Virginia. Compare the legitimate interpretive of the first list of exemptions against the Original Code of the statutes. You will see the first list is much easier to understand, while the original code is there to support the interpretation. It's pretty straight forward. And if an IPIU member needs additional help, then then they have one-on-one aid in the higher levels at this site.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    what happens when you attempt to follow their guidelines often depends on who you run up against in your work.
    Since 1989 IPIU has never had a problem in helping members obtain their PI License or to hire or be employed within the statutes, because it is what our department is mandated to provide.

    • As an example several years ago in Texas: We were required to contact the Texas State Attorney General's Office and Governor over what the Texas Director of PI Licensing had posted on his "director's web page" about how he was going to arrest certain classes of exempted investigators. As a result, his position was terminated by the governor, and the web page removed.

    • As an example several years ago in Florida: A Florida receptionist told an IPIU member he could not work an exempted area. The member turned the name of the receptionist in, and our Florida attorney was able to successfully have the misleading procedure eliminated.


    But both of these cases required the private investigator member to name the party(s) prior to Legal Affairs taking action.

    Further, if a member is seeking licensing, they don't "talk" to anyone. It is all handled through the appropriate documents. If there are special circumstances, IPIU can assist by contacting DCJS in writing to a named source on behalf of the member.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    TO DCJS (Unnamed Employee):
    It is my understanding that you can basically operate unlicensed if you are in the 'stable' of a licensed company doing their work or associated with an organization that is licensed and working under their apron. (Not necessarily a PI company, it could be a company doing investigating for its own processes).
    What part of this is incorrect?
    The question you posed to DCJS employees is out-of-context to the overall statutes. We would have posed the question differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    Quote Originally Posted by DCJS Unnamed Employee
    "I think the simplest way to understand the law in Virginia is to realize that if you want to "hang a shingle", advertise in the yellow pages or operate as an independent PI not associated with anyone else... you need to take an accredited course through one of the training schools "on the DCJS website", fill out the required application and pay the required fee and obtain a license, period. If you are already licensed in one of the states that has reciprocity with Virginia, then you are ok as far as I can tell.
    I thought this statement was pretty simple and to the point...
    I specifically ask about a PI unattached to anyone and operating alone, legally in Virginia as a PI. This is what I was told.
    Without having the name of the state employee who stated what you transcribed, we will not provide a detailed response. However, we can state there are several misleading portions of your account of what the unnamed employee allegedly stated which are contrary to the statutory laws the DCJS is required to follow and offer as advice. (see earlier reply in this post for example of inconsistencies in what the unnamed employee allegedly stated)
    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    I have also found that you can talk to 3 different people and get 3 different interpretations of the same code... so frankly, I don't pay much attention to the names they give me unless they attach a title to associate it with...
    Then what is the name of the state employee you referred to as being "under the director"? That position in Virginia is known as a Deputy Director.

    Otherwise, with all due respect, I would suggest you to acquire the habit of documenting your source names when you are relying on their interpretations of statutory laws. If you choose to become a licensed PI, this is both an ethical and professional requirement when giving potential testimony.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    I will say that usually, when I have called DCJS on other matters, the persons I talk with use their 'first' name
    The use of a first name only by a state employee is acceptable, as long as the employee can escalate the call to a state employee who is mandated to provide both a first and last name, usually a department manager. The public is entitled to receive both a first and last name from a state department. But there are non-managerial clerks who are only required to provide a first name or employee number.

    When investigating statutory laws, proceed to a state employee who will offer both a first and last name, such as the source you alleged who works under the Director (usually a deputy director).

    Also, be prepared for the state employee to simply refer you to the statutes or to have your attorney provide you with legal advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    Why is it that I seem to get the impression that many of the folks on here are in some sort of a confrontational mode...
    See Donna Reagan's answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    phone calls to DCJS take little time and verification
    Phone calls to named state employees to keep them accountable to the phone call should only be ventured as a courtesy call. But this does not excuse nor prevent potential harm to you personally (fines, imprisonment, etc) for ignorance of the written statutory laws.

    Use the example of your personal attorney who would always study the statutes, and if a further ruling or interpretation were needed, your attorney would write a letter, not make a courtesy call.

    We have seen examples in some states where the licensing bureau would offer conflicting interpretations to the statutes. In these rare cases, such as the Texas example above, if the Attorney General had not recommended to the Governor to correct the actions of the licensing board, then the Attorney General would publish a "position paper", which would be the AG's opinion until a state court would rule otherwise. (The Colorado AG office in the 1970's issued a position paper, which was overturned when a potential private investigator brought a civil suit. The court not only favored the plaintiff, it also led to the entire dismantling of the PI Licensing Board in Colorado. And to this day, the Colorado lawmakers and governor still do not favor licensing of PI's)
    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr.
    I am not trying to be confrontational here, simply asking a direct question.
    Thank you.
    Legal Affairs comments are not intended to be and should absolutely not be taken as legal advice. If you should require legal, tax, or financial advice, you must first enter into a written agreement with only a licensed professional for legal, tax, or financial services, signed by both you and the licensed professional, and paid a retainer in good funds. Legal Affairs is not, nor intends to be, nor solicits to be your licensed professional. Members accessing comments by Legal Affairs are required to be bound by their Terms of Use Agreement regarding Legal Affairs.

  16. #16
    John Sanderson is offline Lifetime Member

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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    William,

    With respect, I agree completely with the post preceding this one by Legal Affairs. I have been in a position where I thought Legal Affairs was wrong, only to eat my words later.

    Legal Affairs and IPIU Administrators check and verify all laws posted in the forums. The licensing laws you speak of, in the agreeably confusing text, is the law in raw form. It is likely not to be changed because the IPIU members are educated and assisted in properly interpreting them. I personally author threads dedicated to the assistance of my fellow members.

    It has been my experience that the IPIU is self correcting, and since my join date, I have come across one issue which required correction. This was the number of pen cameras to keep in stock, to fill orders with better time efficiency. A problem at the fault of the increasing customs precautions. These pens come from over seas, nonetheless, IPIU took the responsibility and increased the number of pens in stock. This is the only issue that I have come across to date.

    All union employees are held to the same code of ethics, conduct, and morals as it's members. They correct each other (likely in private). You may notice Admins and Moderators editing their own posts, testifying to their strong sense of responsibility and accountability.

    I have read all of your posts in this thread, and feel that you are trying to employ investigative measures, posting here as if you are 100% sure of your information as displayed in your posts. Please keep in mind that you are on a private investigators union forum, where you are posting in the sight of thousands of seasoned investigators, licensed or not (respectfully). I know the Virginia licensing laws in simple form, after being assisted by the IPIU in interpreting the raw form. I am also aware of the laws governing your current profession, of which I know it was not easy to progress to becoming a bail bondsman. I am willing and able to assist you in any way, in regard to becoming a private investigator, if you were to decide to join.

    I fear that through this thread, you may be discouraged in joining, based on your perception of the union launching an offensive against you. I can say that they would have terminated your account by now if this was the case.

    I understand that you want to become a private investigator and want to be sure that this is the real deal, but challenging the administration is not the way to go. May I humbly suggest that if you doubt the information provided, research it, then post your factual findings.

    If for example you were to find a post by an administrator that included the laws, which were incorrect, you could find the correct information in the respective state's web site, paste and quote the information in the forum along with the most important piece of information being the substantiating link to the site you retrieved the information from. If you were to follow this protocol and prove a wrongful post, I would not be surprised if the union made corrections. Even if you were to post such a claim and substantiated it with a source, the members and administration would likely take a more relaxed approach in their response. I have learned that Legal Affairs puts about an hour or so into most of their posts. This is to be sure of the information by researching and substantiating it.

    As it stands you are still welcome, no-one has posted anything to the contrary.

    any of the administrators or legal staff that were gonna respond to my posts need not at this point. This lady has laid it out just fine. I have no other points to make.
    The quote you are referencing is inaccurate to say the least. The unregulated areas of investigations is how most new investigators get their experience. Why would someone want to put that aside?

    The quote I have posted above my last paragraph also displays an attitude of not wanting to see your point through. If this turns into a trend here or elsewhere, your desired career of investigations will be short lived.

    I have had my disagreements with LA (Legal Affairs), but always saw it through and in most cases ended up apologizing. The LA department is a valuable part of the IPIU as you will see if you choose to stick around.

    I have looked at the Virginia thread regarding licensing, there does appear to be some misinformation which has been provided by guests and members based on personal interpretation and 'beliefs'.

    I saw your mentioning that the law depends on who you run into. May I ask, if you were brought up on charges of kidnapping, as a result of apprehending the wrong person whom you thought was your target, could you be found innocent because 'someone told you' the person you apprehended was the person you sought? Would it not be the written law that seals your fate?

    Your input in these forums is more then welcome, but please re-read the rules for posting. I hope that we can all put this situation behind us with this last statement:

    Members of the International Private Investigators Union and Forums receive in depth assistance in interpreting the licensing laws, operational guidelines, available resources in starting your own business. If you dispute a post and provide some type of evidence substantiating your dispute, you can expect a better response.



  17. #17
    Bill Williams is offline Private Investigator
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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    William, I have been in a debate on another forum concerning this exact issue.
    So much for that "other forum" at that other web site, Bill. Some wannabe moderator closed down the open discussion you and I had over these same issues. What are they afraid of?

    Although I am not a union member of IPIU, I have been registered here at their site for several years and will stick up for them as long as their facts are supported with the evidence. Of course, you already know that.

    It looks like you have carried on quite well on this site with some thought provoking research of your own. Thanks for looking in on this site.

    Bill
    Bill Williams
    Private Investigator
    (Former Federal Agent)

  18. #18

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    I understand that you want to become a private investigator and want to be sure that this is the real deal, but challenging the administration is not the way to go. May I humbly suggest that if you doubt the information provided, research it, then post your factual findings.
    John, I appreciate your post, it's not that I doubt the validity of this sites information, it's only that it is rather confusing to wade through the pages of laws and regulations regarding "licensing" and it seems in reading that IPIU promotes "unlicensed" operation in some ways and I have certain disagreements with some of the promotional material, but that is not to say that IPIU is operating outside of any laws.
    I fear that through this thread, you may be discouraged in joining, based on your perception of the union launching an offensive against you. I can say that they would have terminated your account by now if this was the case.
    I base my choices on much more than what one site, as extensive as it may be, says or promotes. Terminating my account also is not in the least upsetting, since I don't really feel that I have done anything to disrespect this organization... only asking questions and posting opinions which do not necessarily reflect errors in IPIU.
    The quote I have posted above my last paragraph also displays an attitude of not wanting to see your point through. If this turns into a trend here or elsewhere, your desired career of investigations will be short lived.
    John, I am an old retired trucker with 30 years over the road, I have owned and operated several successful businesses over the years including my present "retired" vocation as a licensed bondsman in a small country town in rural Virginia. I do not see this thread going anywhere since I have pretty much had my points answered and further discussion probably wouldn't accomplish much of anything... as for my PI licensing, I have done a fair amount of investigative work already, outside the PI field just by virtue of being a bondsman and following the path that often leads to searches in many areas of that profession. Whether I get my PI license is something that I am considering but it really has nothing to do particularly with IPIU... I just came on this site some time ago and have been reading and simply noted that there were many differing views and I just added my 2 cents as such.
    I have looked at the Virginia thread regarding licensing, there does appear to be some misinformation which has bee provided by guests and members based on personal interpretation and 'beliefs'.
    Now that's an understatement which has a lot to do with my posts. But we are certainly in agreement that it is based mostly on personal interpretation and beliefs.
    I saw your mentioning that the law depends on who you run into. May I ask, if you were brought up on charges of kidnapping, as a result of apprehending the wrong person whom you thought was your target, could you be found innocent because 'someone told you' the person you apprehended was the person you sought? Would it not be the written law that seals your fate?
    John, it has been my experience as a bondsman for the past 10 years or so.... that every jurisdiction, not just in Virginia but in the many states that I have operated in while performing my 'legal' duties... tend to operate in a manner that has quite often "absolutely nothing to do with the code of the state or the laws related directly to LE, bonding, PI or any other related associations"... I am fairly sure that the members of this site have seen, run into, heard, been associated with and in general have worked in situations with attorneys, judges, LEO's be it state, federal or local that do "d---n well what they want" and if you quote state code to them... they will often look over their little glasses in that condescending manner that pseud-intellects often project and tell you "well, this is the way we do it and that is the end of that..."

    Of course you can always appeal whatever decision was made if you feel it is incorrect but then you are faced with other detrimental aspects of the process... ie. mainly costs and time and often it is just not worth the trouble.
    Members of the International Private Investigators Union and Forums receive in depth assistance in interpreting the licensing laws, operational guidelines, available resources in starting your own business. If you dispute a post and provide some type of evidence substantiating your dispute, you can expect a better response.
    Nope, I do not think I have disputed any particular info in a post, just noted that some are rather confusing and often the author seems confused and the answers are often as confusing as the question. As for the rules of engagement on the site... I don't think I have broken any cardinal rules here... only asking and putting forth my "opinions" as most others do. If they choose to kick me off, that's fine. I find the site interesting but not the 'Holy Grail' so I will abide by whatever befalls me. I hope they just leave me alone to read and jump in from time to time since I might actually come up with something that would be pertinent to the overall message. I think I'll just leave the PI stuff alone and stay in my area of some semblance of expertise... bail bonds.

    And as for the bail business, I will end with a quote from an old friend of mine who was also a bondsman... he told me one time......... "I know hundreds of really good personal stories on my business.... and some of them are actually true!"

  19. #19

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
    So much for that "other forum" at that other web site, Bill. Some wannabe moderator closed down the open discussion you and I had over these same issues. What are they afraid of?

    Although I am not a union member of IPIU, I have been registered here at their site for several years and will stick up for them as long as their facts are supported with the evidence. Of course, you already know that.

    It looks like you have carried on quite well on this site with some thought provoking research of your own. Thanks for looking in on this site.

    Bill
    Hey Bill, well they have always been like that and it doesn't particularly bother me.... I think sometimes the powers that be just get tired of a continued discussion that doesn't appear to be going anywhere.... which I can't blame them, frankly... confrontation there is often heated but as you may have noted with me.... I pepper my posts, at least usually, with a bit of humor and temper my threads so that although I try to be funny (debatable) I also try to be intersting and ask pertinent questions which sometimes causes a ruckus ..... that other site is a good one however and don't hold it against anyone when they jump a bit too fast.... I hope I don't get kicked off this one... I do find it interesting on many issues........ talk later, got to go "spring" someone....

  20. #20
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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    IPIU promotes "unlicensed" operation in some ways
    Everyone who has a passcode here has agreed to the following:

    LICENSING, REGULATED & UNREGULATED EXEMPTIONS
    b) . . . (promote) all areas of the relative statutes that may or may not regulate the conduct and duties of a private investigator

    c) . . . promote the full context of all of the applicable laws and/or lawful remedies and statutory exemptions that may apply ethically to the individual circumstances and goals of interested parties.

    e) . . . not all government licensing bodies have authority over unregulated areas of private investigations

    f) . . . promote all interested parties to pursue obtaining government licensing for our profession whenever the entire evidentiary facts of an interested party's individual circumstances dictate such a need or requirement.

    g) . . . do not necessarily believe that all citizens require regulation by a government body in the affairs of a citizen’s chosen profession unless there is a non-partisan proven evidentiary factual need for additional consumer protection.


    Full Quote:
    MISSION STATEMENT:

    PURPOSE:
    • The International Private Investigators Union, originally founded in 1989 as a non-profit organization - and formally incorporated in 1994, is a non-labor union association of private investigators, attorneys, case examiners, and other professionals - which include federal and local law enforcement officers - whose skills and talents embody undercover investigations.

    • The Private Investigators Forum, sponsored by the International Private Investigators Union, is an interactive community where those who have an interest in private investigations and all other related professions (including leisure and lifestyles) can discuss and promote all aspects of the profession.

    • Interactive discussions can include the expertise of private investigations, its training principles, legal reviews, statutes, services, education, products, referrals, and technical strategies that enhance the value those private investigators bring to their client base.


    LICENSING, REGULATED & UNREGULATED EXEMPTIONS, TRAINING, NEWCOMERS:
    1. We, the fraternal union members of the International Private Investigators Union - and the guest members of the Private Investigators Forum, desire to aid interested parties of our profession by first educating them;

    2. Our educational oath and mission includes understanding, informing, and promoting all areas of the relative statutes that may or may not regulate the conduct and duties of a private investigator, but may apply to their profession as a private investigator, as well as any other related professions which may or may not include case examiners, information brokers, law students, bail enforcement agents, bondsmen, process servers, or consultants.

    3. Our mission is not to limit our educational oath to only those statutes that may or may not have any direct regulatory authority over the conduct or duties of a private investigator, but rather to educate, inform, and promote the full context of all of the applicable laws and/or lawful remedies and statutory exemptions that may apply ethically to the individual circumstances and goals of interested parties.

    4. We firmly sustain all government licensing bodies who regulate private investigators within their lawful authority and who are charged with specific duties by statute as authored by their elected lawmakers.

    5. We firmly recognized that not all government licensing bodies have authority over unregulated areas of private investigations and related professions, as dictated by the statutes authored by their elected lawmakers.

    6. We promote all interested parties to pursue obtaining government licensing for our profession whenever the entire evidentiary facts of an interested party's individual circumstances dictate such a need or requirement.

    7. We do not necessarily believe that all citizens require regulation by a government body in the affairs of a citizen’s chosen profession unless there is a non-partisan proven evidentiary factual need for additional consumer protection.

    8. We firmly believe and sustain a fair and balanced course in all regulatory matters and discussion.

    9. We firmly believe that all professional private investigators (whether licensed, unlicensed, regulated, or unregulated) need to exhibit proven investigative skills, based on academic learning, testing, and accomplished experience before performing the duties as a professional private investigator or other related profession on their own.

    10. We respect and promote the integrity of all private investigators and interns involved in pursuing this profession, as well as those who are charged in their duties to regulate and enforce the specific areas of private investigators wherever their authority is relative and lawful.


    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    that every jurisdiction . . . tend to operate in a manner that has quite often "absolutely nothing to do with the code of the state or the laws related directly to LE, bonding, PI or any other related associations"...

    I am fairly sure that the members of this site have seen, run into, heard, been associated with and in general have worked in situations with attorneys, judges, LEO's be it state, federal or local that do "d---n well what they want" and if you quote state code to them... they will often look over their little glasses in that condescending manner that pseud-intellects often project and tell you "well, this is the way we do it and that is the end of that..."
    This has fast become the exception in recent years rather than the rule. As IPIU encounters this type of violation through a formal member complaint, we always escalate it to the highest level for correction (see earlier post by Legal Affairs as examples).

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    Of course you can always appeal whatever decision was made if you feel it is incorrect but then you are faced with other detrimental aspects of the process... ie. mainly costs and time and often it is just not worth the trouble.
    That too has changed. Victims can now assert and win monetary judgments and punitive damages through the courts more easily than before. This has led to a higher out-of-court settlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    If they choose to kick me off, that's fine. I find the site interesting but not the 'Holy Grail' so I will abide by whatever befalls me. I hope they just leave me alone to read and jump in from time to time since I might actually come up with something that would be pertinent to the overall message.
    No moderator or administrator here has ever threatened you with a banishment. You already agreed to your Oath, Code of Ethics, Mission Statement, and Forum Rules. Break any rules or oaths, and a member gets a warning. If the member continues to overtly break what they already signed, then their account can be cancelled.

    On the other hand, you and IPIU also agreed to the following:

    "Discussions on this forum are to be polite, cordial, and respectful. We do not hesitate to express our opinion on matters involved, knowing other members may or may not share those opinions. We will always respect opinions of other members, even if we do not share a particular opinion ourselves. We will not show disrespect or verbally attack other members, non-members, or organizations in a personal manner, but instead try to contribute to the common knowledge about professional private investigations and the understanding of all applicable and related topics".

    "We encourage others to take pleasure in what they apparently enjoy. We will never post with the sole intention to spoil another's pleasure. On this Forum, we want to feel at home and make each other feel as an honored guest".

    "We are not a "no holds barred" newsgroup with little or no moderation. You are expected to conduct yourself in a courteous and professional manner on the Private Investigators Forum. Our volunteer staff of appointed moderators works to ensure this. And unlike other Internet forums, we have extensive training for our moderators and are slow to graduate them as respectful representatives of the forum members"

    "I FURTHER PLEDGE TO ACT in a fashion to aid, promote positive credit, and to sustain the Private Investigators Forum and it's authorized sponsors, including the International Private Investigators Union (IPIU), in it's mission;

    "I FURTHER PLEDGE TO ACT in a fashionto aid IPIU in it's mission to dispel falsehoods and to promote a positive image of it's affairs and the private investigator's industry and its agents and employees.

    "I FURTHER PLEDGE TO NOT knowingly support, affiliate with, offer authorship, or agree with any site, group or firm, or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or opposed to those accepted by IPIU;

    "While we encourage lively discussion, we will not tolerate personal attacks, disrespectful comments, or disingenuous or sarcastic remarks with the appearance to incite toward any person (including their contributions and posts on the forums) or any organization. Any person disparaging another forum member or organization in this regard, or violating forum rules and/or promoting any views that are not in harmony with the Code of Ethics or Mission Statement, may have their comments either edited or removed without notice. Any future incident thereafter may result in that member being permanently removed from the forum.

    "Although our forum policy is never to belittle or chastise someone else - no matter how justified we would be - we also implore upon our members to follow our example by refraining from posting confrontational comments in defense of the union or another member in good standing. No matter what is promoted elsewhere by banned former members in an attempt to justify their banishment and violation of their oath, we must lead by good examples. However, if a member falls victim to believing in possible slanderous material against another member or their fraternal union, you are required to privately email legal.affairs@ipiu.org so that the item can be investigated without fanfare on the public forums.

    STRICTEST OATH, Code of Ethics, and Forum Rules: There is no doubt you are signing the strictest Oath, Code of Ethics, and Forum Rules of any private investigator union association. The Board of Directors, who are sustained by IPIU's members, have included many moral and ethical clauses outlining Articles of member behavior in order to maintain IPIU's Mission Statement and service to it's members.




    Thank you for your support,

    Brad
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  21. #21

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    This has fast become the exception in recent years rather than the rule. As IPIU encounters this type of violation through a formal member complaint, we always escalate it to the highest level for correction
    Brad, I invite you to visit me in southside Virginia and ride with me on bond calls for several weeks, also attend court sessions in the many jurisdictions I service. You can see for yourself that many judges legislate from the bench rather than judge. The code of Virginia in many... not all... but many of their eyes is for "interpretation" only. I have quoted with code in hand and had the judge look me straight in the eye and tell me his ruling was 'thus and so' in complete abandonment of the code as written. I have called DCJS with complaints and been told they could do nothing. I have seen other bondsmen do the same with absolutely no results. So please do not tell me that those are exceptions, with all due respect, I am in the trenches and they happen constantly to many of us out here... I cannot attest to PI problems but relating to bondsmen and DCJS... I can tell you it is an ongoing situation. You are invited to ride with me any time you can make arrangements. I can take you to any of at least a dozen courtrooms, clerks offices and LEO locations and you can hear for yourself the differences in what is written in the code of Virginia and what is implemented by the powers that be..... I am rather busy at the moment but I will try and put together some specific instances of "not following code" related to situations in this business. I have been in court rooms with my personal attorney when commonwealth attorneys have tried to enforce their own ideas in complete disregard to VA code. I can provide you with dates and locations in these instances and will gladly provide you with substantial information for you to "check out." I wish these were exceptions but they are the norm in my neck of the woods.

  22. #22
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    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    I was only offering our experience based on private investigation when confronted with LEO's and the licensing boards, not bail or bond hearings or corrupt judges.

    Unlike your profession, a private investigator's duties amount to two tasks:

    1. Make an undercover observation
    2. Submit a documented report of the observation to the client.


    Everything else that follows is in the client or attorney or courts area of expertise and follow-through. If a PI is called to give testimony, you refer to your undercover notes (and hopefully covert video) which were the basis for the report.

    My earlier comments about a law enforcement officer or someone at the PI Licensing Board preventing a PI to work lawfully is of a different apple than bail bonds. Personally, I think your profession is much more detailed and potentially more confrontational than PI work. You are really exposed, where most of the time the LEO's do not even know if a PI is on the job.

    If a PI gets cited and a judge legislates the PI to jail or a fine, then there is the appeal process along with a civil process whereby the victim can recover costs and pick up a nice punitive award. PI Licensing Boards typically have their own administrative law hearing where it is pretty much one-sided. Still, the PI can have his/her attorney present. In the few cases IPIU has seen in the last 20 years, all of the PI's who were members had their cases resolved without a formal court trial. "Just one big misunderstanding" as they say to save face.

    In the five boroughs of New York and parts of the New Jersey waterfront area, we have been advised by the local attorneys to warn our private investigators not to file a simple affidavit with photos without a back up video surveillance. The video helps prevent local judges from dismissing the report based on graft and favoritism. The added video locks in the affidavit for the PI's client and has less chance of a dismissal.

    Yes, we know there is corruption in the court systems, but added tools have a tendency to sustain the PI's report than just getting it dismissed.

    Thanks,

    Brad

  23. #23

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    I think you are correct that our AO is quite different. I can see your operations being much more in the shadows... so to speak and unfortunately.... my butt is stuck out in the limelight for all to see and take shots at... sometimes literally...

    I suppose I will just back off a bit since this is obviously a site related to "Private Investigators"..... dduuuuhhhhh... and I being a bondsman probably don't have a clue what you are involved in......... so, I will just read and absorb.... and if you ever want to take a ride as invited... please feel free to just call me and I will set you in the spotlight with the rest of us........... who knows, you may even like it and decide to become a ......... can I say ........... bail bondsman... and if I can ever figure out the VA licensing laws pertaining to PI..... I just might put that feather in my cap and try it from your side. Thanks for the info.

    Bill M.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    National Office
    Posts
    732

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by William Marx, Sr. View Post
    I think you are correct that our AO is quite different. I can see your operations being much more in the shadows... so to speak and unfortunately.... my butt is stuck out in the limelight for all to see and take shots at... sometimes literally...





    I also made sure you have upgraded access to the following forums:

    BAIL ENFORCEMENT AGENTS Forum

    (I can see you adding your vast experience to the folks who want the information in the above private forum. It is not open to the public, which is why the group may be more respectful than other sites. Everyone there is on a first and last name basis.)

    And of course is this one:
    Licensing Laws Only: BAIL ENFORCEMENT AGENTS

    And if you wish to have your WebSite listed in your forum signature, then just place our IPIU Member Banner on your Home Page.

    Here are a sample instructions:
    http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33931

    (Or you can privately email me for the html code at brad.foster@ipiu.org )

  25. #25

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    ... and thank you Mr. Foster, I will try to behave.... and not PO anyone too much.... I am much too old and my skin is rather thick to get upset over basically nothing.... have a good day Brad and thanks again. Please tell Mr. Sanderson that it's ok....

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 1992
    Location
    National Office
    Posts
    4,241

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    Bill,

    The previous comments have been removed from this topic and archived.

    There is a well known internet tactic used by anonymous authors as "rhetorical baiting". Your posts do not fall into that category for a number of reasons, of which I wish not to invest the time to explain. Suffice it say, this topic has had the input of five Administrators (which is quite unusual). If any of the five admins determined your intentions were rhetorical baiting, they would have long ago exposed it.

    • Members speak for themselves.
    • Moderators speak for the Administrators
    • Administrators speak for the Board of Directors
    • And many administrators serve on various Board of Directors.
    • The Board of Directors speak for the 40,000+ members.

    Some union members take their fraternal union affiliation very seriously to the point of confronting another guest member in the manner of the removed comment. It happens.

    Nevertheless, the following Rule #8 was agreed upon by all who have a passcode here:

    8. VERY IMPORTANT... If you have a problem with anyone’s comments or actions in a posted thread, do NOT respond with any further comments that will aggravate or escalate the situation. Members who have a severe disagreement have the following options of recourse:

    a) Report the offense in the following link:
    http://www.ipiu.org/forums/sendmessage.php

    b) Email the moderators, directing them to the individual and thread that the problem occurs in. In the upper right side of every comment posted in the topics is a Red/White Alert Button that looks like this: . Use this feature to send your PRIVATE complaint.

    c) Resolve the problem between both of you via private email. If the email of the member is not available, then refer to the first option and request mediation.

    d) Reacting to a disrespectful post with more disrespect puts YOU in jeopardy, and risks your forum membership account at being deleted.

    e) If you have an issue against one of the moderators or administrators, handle this in private email and not in the forum. Violating this procedure may result in your membership being removed. For the Moderator's email address, Click Here .
    On behalf of IPIU, I apologize for the brief interruption.

    Robert
    Robert Donovan
    Director - Agent Relations
    Sr. Director - IPIU Ethics Board



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  27. #27

    Re: William Marx, Sr. Personal Inquiry

    There is a well known internet tactic used by anonymous authors as "rhetorical baiting"
    Well, I have no idea what "rhetorical baiting" relates to... and I am certainly not anonymous.... my name is factual... I will admit to yanking a chain or two... apparently I have irritated some of your learned members. As mentioned, I am a bondsman, not a PI, I have read a lot of the posts and areas that I can access on your site and find it interesting although at times a bit confusing. The confusion I feel comes from the posters more than the site although I must say that at times the scope of your information does lend itself to difficulty in clarifying some issues... especially for the newbies trying to get into the PI business, so my only reason for getting involved here was to try and clarify a couple of items I saw relating to regulations or licensing in Virginia and nothing more.

    I think I have worn this one out for now, so you need not be concerned about my carrying this thread further, as for removing my posts... If you need to do so, feel free, I only posted for clarity of the issues I pointed out and not to irritate your........ 'more serious members'... thanks for your input and we will bring this one to a close.

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