PI LICENSING: Illinois

[Mark Cox]

It sounds like there are many of us in Illinois seeking the same goal, obtaining our PI license and having our own business at some point. It looks like IPIU is the best way to start since we need experience to get the license and local agencies are few and require non-compete agreements to work with them. By working with the national agencies, we will get our experience without being locked into the non-compete that would prevent us from achieving our goals.

[William G Sheehan -]

It sounds like there are many of us in Illinois seeking the same goal, obtaining our PI license and having our own business at some point. It looks like IPIU is the best way to start since we need experience to get the license and local agencies are few and require non-compete agreements to work with them. By working with the national agencies, we will get our experience without being locked into the non-compete that would prevent us from achieving our goals.

Mark;

As someone who has been used over a non-compete agreement I would tell you not to worry so much about them. Basically firms don't want you to come to work for them just to learn their client base and later try and take them and their best employees. Most agreements are straight forward and you can either agree or disagree with them.

In Illinois the law allows you to form a corporation while still in someone’s employ; however, once you begin to practice or start to solicit business you must have their approval or leave your employment.

Illinois law also governs the employment agreements. They must have a defined area and a defined period of time. Say you signed an agreement for a firm in Chicago that says that you can do investigative work for two years in the State of Illinois once you leave your employment. If you left and began working in Rockford immediately the courts would most likely OK this. Usually they define an area within 60 to 100 miles and a term of 6-months. Anything is usually excessive. It is always best to have an attorney review these before signing them. By calling your local bar association you can probably have that done for under $100. Well worth the money spent to avoid a suit. Also remember an employment contract goes both ways. It also makes your employer fulfill their agreement with you.

As for myself I would never have anyone sign an employment agreement. This is a tough area to make money in. If someone wants to leave me and go on their own, let them. If they make it then the better it is for all of us. There are times I have more work than I can do. It would benefit me to have someone that I could trust to feed the work to. I would only hope for the same in return. The problem most firms have is trust. If you are good enough there is enough work out there for all of us.

Bill

[William G Sheehan -]

Thanks, for bring up the licensing in Illinois, have been going over the no license laws. To me it would be better to be license, you could work more independent in the field.

Dear Barbara;

There are a lot of costs involved in going on your own. Think about that. Unless you have several people working for you it is a difficuly field to make a lot of money at.

There are many different aspects to this field. Decide what type of work you would like to do and then see what type of money can be made doing it.

If you would like an idea, tell me what type of PI work interests you.

Bill

[Michael Held]

Hello all,
great information here as in all forums. I am still undergoing training here and I am learning books full of information in the forums. I haven't seen anything specific on part time work for more than one agency as long as you aren't instrumental in stealing clients and/or employees. Am I correct in presuming this is ok? Thanks for an answer in advance, Mike

[William G Sheehan -]

Hey Mike;

Very few firms would allow you to work part-time for one form while working for another. They would claim a conflict of interest, but the true reason would be their fear of you raiding clients of one for the other. Most PI agencies would not even think about hiring another licensed PI. It is a big fear and they are right to fear it because people get to like the work of a person and they will stay with that person no matter who the agency is. If you bring a client in with you when you begin working for someone they love you. When you leave and that client leaves with you they talk suit.

What part of Illinois are you looking to work in ?

Bill

[Michael Held]

Bill,
thanks for the response. You do raise a valid point, even though I wouldn't intentionally raid clients for another firm. I will be looking to work in Madison and St Clair county areas, since that is the area I live in. Mike

[Jennifer E Dean]

Hi Bill,

Doesn't that contradict what IPIU is telling us? I've read several times from IPIU that you make the most money by working for several agencies part time rather than for one full time. It sounds though that that really isn't possible. It sounds like in the real world you are limited to working for one agency for their fear of you stealing their clients, conflict of interest, etc... Did I misunderstand something somewhere?

By the way, where in IL are you? What are you specializing in? What kind of agencies do you work for? I'm very new to this. I just finished my test. I live in downtown Chicago. I don't have a car since I live in the city. I hope that doesn't become a problem

Jennifer

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill,
thanks for the response. You do raise a valid point, even though I wouldn't intentionally raid clients for another firm. I will be looking to work in Madison and St Clair county areas, since that is the area I live in. Mike

Mike;

Unfortunately, intentions are not what people will look at. They will want to guard their business. You can’t blame them, it isn’t easy making a good living doing this work. Madison is down by St Louis, right ? Sorry, I do not know any one that way or I would point you toward them. Do you have your PERC already ? If not that would be a big help for starters. If you are by St. Louis consider soliciting firms there that may not want to cross the river.

Good luck!

Bill

[William G Sheehan -]

Hi Bill,

Doesn't that contradict what IPIU is telling us? I've read several times from IPIU that you make the most money by working for several agencies part time rather than for one full time. It sounds though that that really isn't possible. It sounds like in the real world you are limited to working for one agency for their fear of you stealing their clients, conflict of interest, etc... Did I misunderstand something somewhere?

By the way, where in IL are you? What are you specializing in? What kind of agencies do you work for? I'm very new to this. I just finished my test. I live in downtown Chicago. I don't have a car since I live in the city. I hope that doesn't become a problem

Jennifer

Dear Jennifer;

Working for/getting assignments through the IPIU from numerous agencies is fine, since that is the way you are assigned the tasks, but you are not considered an employee of a particular agency. I was talking about getting work outside of the IPIU and trying to get jobs with more than one agency to have enough work to make the money you need. Many times if you get on with an agency they will have enough work and if you want more they will give it to you.

I have my own agency, Chicagoland Investigative Services, out of Chicago Ridge. I specialize in insurance fraud investigations and average driving 42,000 miles a year just in the greater Chicago area. Your lack of a vehicle will limit your options; however, you still have options. Imagine all of the companies that are served with suit papers each day in downtown alone. Someone has to do that. Parking a car would make that expensive, but it might be right up your alley. If you think that you ill like that call a company named Shadow Investigations out of Libertyville and tell them you are available in the downtown area. By all means use my name! Go to the 10th floor of the Dailey Center, (Criminal Division), any day of the week and you will see a bunch of young men and women sitting at computer terminals. They are all from private employers doing background checks by searching Cook County criminal records. Some also check other records in that same building or across the street at the Thompson Center, 8th floor, in the Industrial Commission. Stop by and talk with a few of them and ask them who they work for and the best way to get on. Consider training as a paralegal for one of the million or so law firms downtown. Many paralegals just do research or what we do. Check out the other forums about Secret Shoppers. I read where one person makes ten thousand a month just doing that. I’m sure there are thousands of things that I haven’t thought of, but it’s a BIG city with BIG needs. The best thing about not having a car is that you are never stuck in traffic.

Go to the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation and get started on getting your permanent employee registration card, PERC, http://www.idfpr.com/.

Best of luck! If you have any questions I’d be glad to help if I can.

Bill

[M Michelle Le Fevre--]

Bill,

This is excelent information and advise. I look forward to more of your posts.

Thanks

[Legal Affairs]

I've read several times from IPIU that you make the most money by working for several agencies part time rather than for one full time.

As Bill stated, apples and oranges is the question and tagged answer.

By and large for newcomers entering private investigations, we suggest the above. But of course there will be exceptions, such as the vital lead that Bill gave you. And I suppose if 40,000+ union members turned up at that downtown door to work full time, then that may leave a few out looking elsewhere (namely in our Level 4 Assignment Forums).

As a matter of fact, one national agency posted in our Level 4 forum is in need of an additional 5000 investigators nationwide for field work for the US government. They pay around $30,000 or more a year to start, but it is full time working for the national security of America.

To all others, this is a licensing topic. If you wish, we have the chit-chat forums for all levels in the other forums. Let's try to keep this topic on-topic.

[Christopher Fryar -]

do u know if they are doing this in OKlahoma? If anyone could find out and tell me i would be grateful. Im all new at this so i dont know how to find out.

thank you

[William G Sheehan -]

do u know if they are doing this in OKlahoma? If anyone could find out and tell me i would be grateful. Im all new at this so i dont know how to find out.

thank you

Dear Chris;

By doing this I assume you are talking about ther PERC, at I would say no, its an Illinois thing, though different states have similar regulations. Oklahoma Stae PI info can be obtained by going to: http://www.cleet.state.ok.us/Private_Security.htm

The IPIU has limited info on Oklahoma beginning at the thread: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10216

Bill

[Edward Ruebensam]

Dear Jennifer;

Working for/getting assignments through the IPIU from numerous agencies is fine, since that is the way you are assigned the tasks, but you are not considered an employee of a particular agency. I was talking about getting work outside of the IPIU and trying to get jobs with more than one agency to have enough work to make the money you need. Many times if you get on with an agency they will have enough work and if you want more they will give it to you.

I have my own agency, Chicagoland Investigative Services, out of Chicago Ridge. I specialize in insurance fraud investigations and average driving 42,000 miles a year just in the greater Chicago area. Your lack of a vehicle will limit your options; however, you still have options. Imagine all of the companies that are served with suit papers each day in downtown alone. Someone has to do that. Parking a car would make that expensive, but it might be right up your alley. If you think that you ill like that call a company named Shadow Investigations out of Libertyville and tell them you are available in the downtown area. By all means use my name! Go to the 10th floor of the Dailey Center, (Criminal Division), any day of the week and you will see a bunch of young men and women sitting at computer terminals. They are all from private employers doing background checks by searching Cook County criminal records. Some also check other records in that same building or across the street at the Thompson Center, 8th floor, in the Industrial Commission. Stop by and talk with a few of them and ask them who they work for and the best way to get on. Consider training as a paralegal for one of the million or so law firms downtown. Many paralegals just do research or what we do. Check out the other forums about Secret Shoppers. I read where one person makes ten thousand a month just doing that. I’m sure there are thousands of things that I haven’t thought of, but it’s a BIG city with BIG needs. The best thing about not having a car is that you are never stuck in traffic.

Go to the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation and get started on getting your permanent employee registration card, PERC, http://www.idfpr.com/.

Best of luck! If you have any questions I’d be glad to help if I can.

Bill

So what skills would I need to get a job in insurance fraud investigations. I don't live to far from Chicago Ridge and do you take on interns?

[William G Sheehan -]

So what skills would I need to get a job in insurance fraud investigations. I don't live to far from Chicago Ridge and do you take on interns?

Hello Ed;

As far as skills it is difficult to say. 25-years ago I started my by investigating underwritting applications for insurance and later moved into claims and from there fraud. The progression helped me understand insurance, but I have trained many fine investigators who had no prior experience with insurance. When it comes down to it DESIRE is a skill that you can not teach. Most people look at the job thinking that it i a good way for them to earn a living without working too hard. I started at five this morning and just walked in a little after 10. Not everyday is like that, it just feels that way.

As far as interns go I have done a few, but here again if it is someone really wanting a look at the profession I do not mind it, but it is not sitting around making copies and getting coffee. I have yet to have an intern get into this line of work after being with us for a few weeks. If you did not like home work in school, I would look into something else.

What town are you from ?

Bill

[Edward Ruebensam]

Bill

I live in Palos Hills, and I can understand the hard work. I don't mind homework and I don't like sitting around. I would rather be busy then bored. If possible I would like to come by and just check out what you do if that is alright with you. I currently have a full time job at the Department of Veterans Affairs as a Motor Vehicle Operator, but I am a temporary worker. Right now my off days are Thursday and Friday and I work Monday to Wednesday 5:30am - 2:00pm.

What would you suggest starting off in?

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill

I live in Palos Hills, and I can understand the hard work. I don't mind homework and I don't like sitting around. I would rather be busy then bored. If possible I would like to come by and just check out what you do if that is alright with you. I currently have a full time job at the Department of Veterans Affairs as a Motor Vehicle Operator, but I am a temporary worker. Right now my off days are Thursday and Friday and I work Monday to Wednesday 5:30am - 2:00pm.

What would you suggest starting off in?

Dear Ed;

I would not be averse to having you ride with me one day to see how you would like this line of work; however, I believe that they frown upon personal contact through the forums. You may wish to checkout www.1chicagoland.com for other lines of approach.

I am extremely busy right now and would need at least two weeks before anything could be done.

Bill

[Edward Ruebensam]

Bill

I understand what you are saying. I checked out your web site and I like the design. I also read the job descriptions that you do so I can see that you are busy.

"I am extremely busy right now and would need at least two before anything could be done." Do you mean level 2?

Where would you suggest I get my fingerprints done and the photos? I was thinking about the local Police Department if they will do the fingerprints, but I would like to know some other places that will do this. As for the photos I was just going to go somewhere that does passport photos.

I can understand about the personal contact. I just reread the "Code of Ethics Agreement and Mission Statement" and number 16 (What are the forum rules) covers this topic and I think you are right.

Ed

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill

I understand what you are saying. I checked out your web site and I like the design. I also read the job descriptions that you do so I can see that you are busy.

"I am extremely busy right now and would need at least two before anything could be done." Do you mean level 2?

Where would you suggest I get my fingerprints done and the photos? I was thinking about the local Police Department if they will do the fingerprints, but I would like to know some other places that will do this. As for the photos I was just going to go somewhere that does passport photos.

I can understand about the personal contact. I just reread the "Code of Ethics Agreement and Mission Statement" and number 16 (What are the forum rules) covers this topic and I think you are right.

Ed

Dear Ed;

You threw me for a second there, until I reread my comment and saw that I had intended to write the word "weeks". So it should have read two weeks.

For the IPIU I believe that you MUST have your local police department do the finger prints. Walgreens/Osco/Wolf Camera can all do the passport photo.

Did you find your old PERC information ?

Bill

[Edward Ruebensam]

Bill,

Yes I have my old PERC information. I am going to call for the renewal application on Monday.

Ed

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill,

Yes I have my old PERC information. I am going to call for the renewal application on Monday.

Ed

Ed;

Sounds good.

Did you check out the link in my last message ?

Bill

[Edward Ruebensam]

Bill

I checked out your web site www.1chicagoland.com and I like the design. I also read the job descriptions that you do so I can see that you are busy.

Ed

Bill

This is the only web site that you sent.

Ed

[Edward Ruebensam]

Bill,

I sorry you did send another web sitr www.idfpr.com. This is the site I got the phone number for the renewal application.

Ed

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill,

I sorry you did send another web sitr www.idfpr.com. This is the site I got the phone number for the renewal application.

Ed

Ed;

No, it was the first one you mentioned that I was talking about.

Bill

[Bozica N Newell]

Thank you all for the important info that I needed. It really did help to know what steps to take in the right direction. Thanks Again!

[Andrea Lewis-]

The discription to me indicates that if I work for a agency, I don't need the license. I am looking to do this PT either through a agency or on my own networking. Am I to assume that I just say I am a case examiner and not a licensed PI to avoid legal trouble while I am doing it on my own? Or do I have to have the license to say I am a case worker?? does anybody out there know?

[William G Sheehan -]

The discription to me indicates that if I work for a agency, I don't need the license. I am looking to do this PT either through a agency or on my own networking. Am I to assume that I just say I am a case examiner and not a licensed PI to avoid legal trouble while I am doing it on my own? Or do I have to have the license to say I am a case worker?? does anybody out there know?

Dear Andrea;

1st, if you work for an agency you would need to have a PERC, (Permanent Employee Registration Card). To become licensed you would need to work under a licensed PI for two years.

Now many professions gather information without being, or needing to be licensed as a PI. Insurance Adjuster and information brokers for example do not need to be licensed as a PI to do their work. The key here is that they are not governed by the Department of Professional Regulation. When you are governed, (such as when you have a PERC), they can fine the %#$@ out of you. If you are unlicensed and unregistered then the most that they can do is ask the Attorney General’s Office to issue you a cease and desist order.

The purpose of the license and the regulations is to show that you have demonstrated a fair amount of training and that you have liability insurance. Both are measures to protect the public.

Where they will come after you is with your advertising. If you advertise services make sure they are not ones, (such as surveillance), that require a license, unless you are licensed.

If you give me a better idea as to the type of work you are looking to do I can let you know what my opinion is as far as you needing to be licensed. Remember, it is just an opinion and everybody has one. Some are just bigger opinions.

Bill

[Robin M Ellefsen]

Larry, thanks alot for the web-site address, got right to the PERC form. Printed it and the info. out. The form has a line(#12) for the agency to fill out for a new employee. It tells me that you probably could wait to hook up with an agancy before getting your PERC and they will do it for/with you.

[Clayton Merrill--]

I'm currently a police officer with a BA in Criminal Justice. I'm Looking to get into the private field. It appears that there is no need for me to get a license???? Any advised would greatly be appreciated. Thank You

[William G Sheehan -]

I'm currently a police officer with a BA in Criminal Justice. I'm Looking to get into the private field. It appears that there is no need for me to get a license???? Any advised would greatly be appreciated. Thank You

Dear Clayton;

Though it is true that you are not required to have a PERC as an ACTIVE duty police officer, you will be required to have one if you leave the department. You will also be required to go through the PI licensing process if you decide to seek work on your own. Being a police officer definitely has its' advantages, just be careful seeking out work on your own.

Bill

[Clayton Merrill--]

Dear Bill,
Thanks for the information.

[Michael Hudson -]

Hi Clayton;

Referen is made to your request for info re; Alabama laws. as of this time there are no state legislative laws in effect as we speak. Howevcer we are working dilligently in getting ouor draft charter passed on the floor soon. You will need of course a business license and should be bonded and insured.
The draft bill will be quite strigent. This is long over do and we encourage it since a lot of people think there is nothig to this career field and wind up either sued, jailed or fined for numerouos violations. Having coming from local law enforcement, owill certainly help as it is me. I am a retired Federal Agent and you will see it is a totally different world ouoot here. The badge and gun is a thing of the past in this arena. Many people assume they can come accross the border with flat zero background and real world experience and think they are 007's. It does not work here. If you do not have any background eithere from former Law Enforcement or other private sector investrigative experience forget it. No attorney in the land will even take a second look. It is also a good idea to become member of professional organizations such as NALI which law firms look at. Until the long overde legislation comes, we will continue to make do with what we have as well as do all we can to preserve our credibility.

If you have not already done so, I urge you to contact the newly formed orgnaization APIA (Alabama Professional Investigations Association) we are the group who has worked on the draft bill for legislation. Go IPIA.com.

Best

M Hudsn

[Debra Lewis -]

What is needed for verification of hours worked for PI firm, to then set for the test.
Does the individual keep track of their hours, or does the employer do that?

[William G Sheehan -]

What is needed for verification of hours worked for PI firm, to then set for the test.
Does the individual keep track of their hours, or does the employer do that?

Dear Debra;

There is really no way to track your hours. Basically it is a trust system with you and the PI who will sign off on your experience. Plus you should have your PERC for the minimum time needed before applying.

Before applying decide if you really need to be licensed. With all of the costs and the amount of competition this really is not a field that you can jump into and start making a lot of money. If you work for only one firm, (say a single insurance company or law firm), you are not required to be licensed. If you have a client that can provide you with a regular income stream you may be able to get a licensed PI to allow you to work under their license for a small percentage.

This is definitely a field where men and women are equal. I support you going farther into to it all the way. If you are planning to start your own agency make sure that you have more capital than you think you will need. Cases will be hard to come by at first and then you have to put up with limited budgets and SLOW paying clients.

When you complete your application make sure that you obtain the study guide and order all of the materials that are listed in the guide. It is a difficult test, but the questions are taken from the reference material that they quote. Police Officers have a definite heads up on the test as they are more familiar with the criminal statues and the questions directly related to criminal charges. There are also several questions on State Government, so know the make-up of the Illinois State Government.

If you have any specific questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Bill

[Kevin E Stroud -]

Bill,

I've been working part-time under a PI Agency for a little over two years now and that, coupled with my educational background, I believe qualifies me to get my own agency license so I'm getting ready to head down that road.

I wasn't aware, however, that my "current employing agency" would have to sign off on my experience, but that's what I gather from your post above - true?!

I was kinda hoping to be able to get my own agency license without involving my current employer (as I kinda don't think they're going to like it!)

So... am I screwed here, buddy?! Thanks for your (bigger than average) opinion!

Kevin

[Debra Lewis -]

Your answer was clear and helpful...Thank you.
If you work for multiple agencies, then do they all sign off?
Or does only the agency that has given you the most experience sign off...

[William G Sheehan -]

Bill,

I've been working part-time under a PI Agency for a little over two years now and that, coupled with my educational background, I believe qualifies me to get my own agency license so I'm getting ready to head down that road.

I wasn't aware, however, that my "current employing agency" would have to sign off on my experience, but that's what I gather from your post above - true?!

I was kinda hoping to be able to get my own agency license without involving my current employer (as I kinda don't think they're going to like it!)

So... am I screwed here, buddy?! Thanks for your (bigger than average) opinion!

Kevin

Dear Kevin;

You should still be OK. I take it that you have had your PERC card during that time. You may also have pay stubs that would prove your employment. Even if you do not I would apply anyhow and just submit a letter with your application indicating that if you got the licensed agent of your agency to sign off it would adversely affect your employment. No one wants you to loose your job, so I believe that you will be OK.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is against Illinois employment practices to solicit sales while you are employed if it is a conflict with the work/product your current employer offers. You can do everything from getting licensed and incorporating, but the moment you are prepared to begin to seek business you must quit or give notice to your current employer of your intentions.

Good employees are hard to come by. If your current employer is OK with your intentions and still wants to keep you on as an employee I would formerly write your intentions to your employer so that nothing can be used against you in the future. I speak from experience here. I worked for a guy that I would trust with my life wound up suing me over an employment issue. Cover your bases!

Bill

[William G Sheehan -]

Your answer was clear and helpful...Thank you.
If you work for multiple agencies, then do they all sign off?
Or does only the agency that has given you the most experience sign off...

Dear Debra;

You are most welcome!

You will only need one, and possibly not even that. I take it that you have had your PERC for the minimum time needed. That alone should get it for you. You can always write a letter with your application to explain your experience and who you worked under.

Give it a try. It can not hurt. The deadline for the next test may already be at hand. That will give you until July to apply for the September test and give you a ton of time to study the study guide material. I did not follow this advice and failed my first test.

Bill

[Kevin E Stroud -]

Bill,

Yes I've had my PERC and FAC (Firearm Authorization Card) for about 2 1/2 years, so IL/DPR can verify I've been "alive" at least.

I'm well up on employment practices and really am an "above board guy". The situation is that I own a technology business and occasionally do technology-oriented work (key-logging, computer forensics, etc.) for my current employing agency, but they don't really "advertise" that as one of their services - whatever work in that area they happen to get they use me for. I think that's a growing market and would like to pursue it (advertise, "seek" clients, etc.) as a service of my technology company - and over a much larger geographic area.

This would be entirely new clientele for these services, so I don't see a real conflict with my current employing agency, but I'm also sure that nobody likes to see (potential) competition sprout up around them - even indirect competition - so that's why I'm trying to avoid getting their sign-off. However I may have no choice!

Appreciate your input and will let you know how it goes!!!

Regards,

Kevin

[Samir Tulic -]

I have PERC,FOID,AND TAN CARD,AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR PI JOB .......(