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Thread: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

  1. #1

    requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    what are the legal specifications to have a handgun concealment permit after having served time for a felony in the same state.?
    RICHARD HEIDEMAN

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    William R. Larson - is offline (Retired from Forum Activity)

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    Handgun and felons

    It is my understanding that a felon in possession of a handgun is in illegal possession of a firearm. Therefore a convicted felon should have LESS of a chance of getting a permit to carry concealed as it is illegal for them to be in possession of a handgun in the first place. I do not know the details regarding a rifle/shotgun/whatever, but I would believe that the standard would be similar.

    Felons with handguns and drugs, just say NO!

    PS - I am by no means an expert in this area, and I may be wrong. This is just to the best of my understanding. Either way, please let me know if it is or is not correct. Thanks!

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    This web link might help you:

    http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/missouri

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    Not being from my state, the laws may vary but...

    In Maine, a felon may, after 5 years have passed since all sentence specifications have been satisfied, apply for Executive Clemency. This would free your record of CONVICTION only and allow concealed carry. Otherwise, after the same time has elapsed, you may apply to the Commissioner of Public Safety for a permit to POSSES a non-concealed firearm.

    Otherwise, it is illegal for a felon to posses a firearm in the State of Maine.

    Jim

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    Unhappy

    In reading about concealing a weapon in KS, I have found that it is really veg. I will do some more research and post what I find out.

  6. #6

    Depends on the State, for MA its...

    Here in MA, the laws are farely new and updated, but as an easy to understand basic, it works like this.

    First, their are 4 type's of Permits/Licenses :

    Class A: For All Firearms, OC/Mace' Own & Use and
    Carry/Concealment, etc.
    Class B: For All Firearms, OC/Mace' Own & Use Only.
    Class C: Rifles, OC/Mace', No Handguns
    Class D: For OC/Mace' Only

    To Apply for the Class A, to carry a handgun concealed, the Law is you cannont have been Convicted of a Felony, ever.. This now includes certain OUI/DWI Convictions, Domestic Assaults, etc.. Generally, any crime you were convicted of that did, or could have been punishable up to a year in jail is considered a Felony. This is Permenent Disqualification in MA.

    Other than that, the State Law Minimums require this:
    1. Clean State & Federal CORI Check
    2. Be at least 21 yrs of age
    3. Pass a Basic Firearms Safety Course

    Here's where it gets tricky.. If you meet the State's Min.'s, thats great. But Licenses are issued by the Chief of Police of the City/Town you reside in. And they have total control of the issuing authority after the State Police okay the State Minimums. This means that the Chief, issuing authority, can ask for whatever he wants, other course certificates, club membership receipts, references, or anything he feels he wants. He/she has total authority, without restrictions. If they deny you a License, of course you can appeal, but takes forever and is ussually unresolved since the Law states the Issuing Authority has total discretion.

    The Issuing Authority also has the right to place Restrictions on any of the Licenses.. Such as, they may Grant you a Class A License to carry firearms, with a restriction to carry during Daylight Hours Only, or Employment Only, or Not-Concealed, etc..

    In most cases, they will issue you a Class B License, which means you can purchase, own and have a handgun, but never carry on your person, concealed or not. Restrictions can be similar, like Employment Only, or To & From locations, etc.

    The law is very straight forward, but confusing. The Issuing Authority can deny/approve for whatever they want to, and place restrictions wherever they choose.

    I should note, that the Lower Letter, A,B,C, etc.. over extends to the other Licenses. So if you have a Class A, you can buy/own rifles, shotguns, Mace' etc..

    The Actual License to Carry Firearms - Concealed Pistol Permit, is a Class A - All Lawfull Purposes (Unrestricted). It is illegal to carry a Firearm in plain view, unless you are wearing a Uniform in compliance with employment, ie: Police / Security Officer, Armed Guard, etc..

  7. #7
    Greetings,

    I am sure not an expert on this subject. So this will have to be my .02 worth. As far as I know, if you have a Felony conviction you can never buy or sell a firearm of any kind. You can never legally own or carry a firearm of any kind including “hunting firearms”.

    You sure are not going to get a concealed carry permit in the state of Florida. However, there is one possible way to get your rights back and that is to have the Felony conviction removed from your record. The odds of this are remote but not impossible. It is interesting to note that when a convicted Felon is caught with a firearm in their possession that is the first charge that is dropped by the District Attorney. Kind of makes you wonder why they even have this law on the books because it is rarely enforced.

    Sincerely,

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    There are alot of other things that will keep you from getting a gun permit as well. I'm not an expert on how many other laws are out there, but I do know if you are not paying child support or if you owe the government, then you are not able to gain a permit.
    Teresa Singletary

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  9. #9
    Originally posted by Teresa Singletary
    There are alot of other things that will keep you from getting a gun permit as well. I'm not an expert on how many other laws are out there, but I do know if you are not paying child support or if you owe the government, then you are not able to gain a permit.
    Greetings Teresa,

    That is an interesting fact to me. I did not know that owing child support could be used to keep you from buying or owning a firearm. I have seen where you can lose your drivers license and have your income garnished. Also, have your income tax refund intercepted. Go to jail for not paying child support. Have a lien placed on any real property and the list goes on.

    In closing, do you know if that is a Federal law or just a law for the state of Texas?

    Respectfully,

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    William R. Larson - is offline (Retired from Forum Activity)

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    Originally posted by Bryan McManis
    In closing, do you know if that is a Federal law or just a law for the state of Texas?

    Respectfully,
    www.packing.org is the best source available on the 'Net, and probably the best outside of talking to your legislature and/or attorney from your state.

  11. #11

    Thumbs up

    Greetings,

    That is a very useful and cool website.

    Thank you for providing the informtion.

    Regards,

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    Hello Bryan

    My neighbor had to show proof that he was paid up on his child support. They was not going to give it to him until he showed proof. I do believe that this is the law here in Texas. A person can take the shooting test but when you send off for your license, then that's when the law come into effect.
    Teresa Singletary

    Badge #7088

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    Re: Hello Bryan

    Originally posted by Teresa Singletary
    My neighbor had to show proof that he was paid up on his child support. They was not going to give it to him until he showed proof. I do believe that this is the law here in Texas. A person can take the shooting test but when you send off for your license, then that's when the law come into effect.
    Greetings Teresa,

    That is TRULY AMAZING to me. I have been to Texas one time in my life and I thought it was an awesome state to live in. Only Texas could have such a good law on the books.

    I am very interested in collecting back owed child support and I am always interested in any new ways that are found to make people pay up what they owe.

    In closing, thank you for taking the time to inform me of the law in Texas.

    All the best,

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    Child support under federal jurisdiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan McManis
    Greetings Teresa,

    That is an interesting fact to me. I did not know that owing child support could be used to keep you from buying or owning a firearm. I have seen where you can lose your drivers license and have your income garnished. Also, have your income tax refund intercepted. Go to jail for not paying child support. Have a lien placed on any real property and the list goes on.

    In closing, do you know if that is a Federal law or just a law for the state of Texas?

    Respectfully,

    Hi Bryan,

    I just wanted to interject some knowledge on this topic. Being retired Federal Law Enforcement I can say this is true that there is Federal jurisdiction over child/ex-spouse non support. The U.S. Marshals were given this responsibility in the late 90's. There is a certain amount that has to be in arrears before a warrant can be issued. When applying for Federal aide or school grants, etc. this is one of the first things that is looked for. If you fall under Government requirements, the amount of arrears, your gov't assistance will be denied and a warrant will be sworn out for your arrest. I put it in this manner because U.S. Marshals will pursue large amounts of arrears or respond to individuals who complain consistently and in dire need.
    I hope this sheds some light.

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    Federal law says...

    For those of you have bought a firearm, you will fill out a federal form called a 4473. It asks you a bunch of questions to see if you qualify to buy a firearm.

    A felon cannot own, buy, possess, touch or even use (have firearm in your hand) a firearm of any type. This is federal law.

    If one can get Clemency from the authority having control (usually governor), then you could get a firearm... It will not be easy to get the firearm, as every time a NICS background check is run, they will find a felony. You can get a UPIN from your POC (e.g. FBI NICS, state police, etc.) system that will allow you to have verification that you are OK and obtain the firearm(s) within the timeframe your local state allows.

    End result, if you are a felon, NEVER touch a gun or you just committed another felon.

    State law can even be stricter than the feds, but not less strict.

    mark

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    I work for a sheriffs department and Marks statement is correct. I asked our conceled carry deputy, and in Missouri, you can't have anything to do with any type of firearm.

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    More info on carrying

    Also note:

    A CCW permit will likely NOT allow you to carry when "working."

    Example: NH requires a certification process (training + shooting test) before one can carry as a security guard OR PI. If you get a NH license, it will say ARMED if you are allowed to carry while working.

    It is very important to check with your state licensing group to find out what you can do in the state you are licensed in.

    Just because YOUR licensed state allows you to carry while working, if you do interstate work, you MAY be required to get a license in the state you are not licensed in to carry armed.

    The key here is carrying armed while working in a state that you are not licensed in.

    mark

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    In my state of Texas, it is illegal for a felon to have, carry, or posses a firearm. Maybe you could check on having your record ex-sponged, for a fee to an attorney.

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    Post Depending on what state you are in of course...

    The law is general with the following statement although, there are special circumstances to every situation.
    Licenses To Carry Firearms (LTC)

    Prerequisites for Obtaining a License to Carry Firearms

    "In order to qualify for a LTC, you must not be an alien (that is, you must be a U.S. citizen) and you must not have been convicted of or found delinquent of:
    • a felony;
    • a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years in jail (this means the maximum punishment possible, not merely the punishment you may have received);
    • a weapons or ammunition violation for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or,
    • a violation of the controlled substances law (i.e., possession, distribution, traffiking marijuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, etc.).

    Important Note: If, however the case was continued without a finding (also known as CWF or CWOF), that disposition may or may not considered a conviction for LTC purposes. This is an unsettled area of the law. If you are in this situation, you should consult with a lawyer."
    O.A.C.V. Sr.

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    Talking My .02 cents =)

    Good day all =)

    I wanted to point to a thread I started regarding a great book on firearm laws in all states......the thread also contains a great site for firearms reference info.....(laws, permits, changes..etc)

    http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29037

    enjoy ....
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    sorry!

    I dont know why my font is shrinking on some of my posts.....I will be sure to check the size before hitting enter in the future........

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    The laws in Texas go on forever....Pretty place to live....bad place to get on the wrong side of the law in anyway!

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    IN pennsylvania you need to become ACT235 Certified. This can easily be done. It is a requirement in PA to carry for ANY line of work. from Law enforcement to shopping store clerk.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    I know in Missouri atleast, If you are a felon and you are even just noticed to have a gun of any type, even if you are in your own home and/or minding your own business, then you get an automatic 5 years in prison. Do not pass go, go straight to jail.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by David Leonard
    In reading about concealing a weapon in KS, I have found that it is really veg. I will do some more research and post what I find out.
    Didnt Kansas Just start issuing conceal carry permits? I think i read that in the news in the past few months.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    There is a lot of confusion in this matter. Laws are put in place to make it very difficult. But fact as it may be, for any felony conviction. after 7 years of conviction,providing there is no attachments such as parole ect, any person/s can own and be granted permit to carry a concealed weapon in all states.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Cain N Jones
    There is a lot of confusion in this matter. Laws are put in place to make it very difficult. But fact as it may be, for any felony conviction. after 7 years of conviction,providing there is no attachments such as parole ect, any person/s can own and be granted permit to carry a concealed weapon in all states.
    If possible, can you provide us with a pointer to where you found your above quotes from?

    "any person/s can own and be granted permit to carry a concealed weapon in all states."

    Each state has control over licensed carry for PI's in its state and as such, no individual state can license anyone for concealed carry in all states.

    Federal law does not allow sales/possession/touching in most (if not all) cases where a person has a felony conviction. For more information on this, goto the regulations at: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...3004/index.htm

    mark

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    I found this researching law,I'm saying each individual from what ever state there from and with in that state can own a hand gun, and be granted permit.I have felony conviction from 1986 1987 and im doing it.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Buda
    Each state has control over licensed carry for PI's in its state and as such
    Mark, that may be correct on a state-by-state basis for the PI Licensing board to offer additional restrictions, because a PI License is a license to do business. But Cain may be referring to a private citizen having a permit to carry when not in the business of private investigations. Some states separate their permits into professional business, private, and private employed by an employer who requires the permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Buda
    no individual state can license anyone for concealed carry in all states.
    Yes and no, Mark. By virtue of possessing one state's permit (not all), that same permit may be honored in another state through reciprocity, similar to Arkansas licensed PI's having their Arkansas license honored in Florida and other states. The reciprocity agreements may very well be posted at www.packing.org

    Example:
    If a citizen has a permit to carry in Alabama, then that permit is accepted in several other states:

    Click here for list:
    http://www.ago.state.al.us/ag_items.cfm?Issue=64


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Buda
    Federal law does not allow sales/possession/touching in most (if not all) cases where a person has a felony conviction. For more information on this, go to the regulations at: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...3004/index.htm

    mark
    Mark, thank you for the excellent link to download the ATF manual. It contains a lot of good information.

    One area I found is that a felony is considered a violent act when looking at restricting felons in general. Although the brochure states "no felons", you have to get into the code to read "For the purposed of this act, a felony is . . ." and they go on to describe violent acts, and not all acts that come under the felony code (such as business conduct, etc)

    Perhaps you can find for me in that download where the act restricts felons that are other than violent offenders. I could not find it.


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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Cain N Jones
    I found this researching law,I'm saying each individual from what ever state there from and with in that state can own a hand gun, and be granted permit.I have felony conviction from 1986 1987 and im doing it.
    Hello, Cain.

    What Mark is asking for is a web link to the statute that provides the means for anyone else in your state with a similar felony conviction during those years to obtain a permit as you have. Your earlier research may very well still be on the books and available on the internet for others to use to obtain permits. Or the prior statute may have been repealed since Homeland Security, and all previous permits, such as yours, could have been grandfathered in.

    The link Mark provided is the latest revised guidelines.

    Thanks for your help.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Yes this is true that it could of been changed after 911. I will research and get back to you all. Thanks for being open to my input as well giving input on this topic.After all research and information is our business.

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Ford
    Yes and no, Mark. By virtue of possessing one state's permit (not all), that same permit may be honored in another state through reciprocity, similar to Arkansas licensed PI's having their Arkansas license honored in Florida and other states. The reciprocity agreements may very well be posted at www.packing.org
    Not to be disagreeable, but I was accurately responding to his blanket statement. As I said earlier, no state provides a PI carry permit that allows one to carry in all states. This is also true for personal CCW.

    I am also very aware that some states may allow a few other states licenses to be recognized, but NOT ALL states.

    One area I found is that a felony is considered a violent act when looking at restricting felons in general. Although the brochure states "no felons", you have to get into the code to read "For the purposed of this act, a felony is . . ." and they go on to describe violent acts, and not all acts that come under the felony code (such as business conduct, etc)
    See 921(a)(20) and 922(d)(1) along with other various references throughout the document for what are prohibitions. Note that there can easily be more in other regulations.

    Note that the federal regulations that I referred to you is a grouping of many regulations dealing with firearms. That is why you will see various definitions and descriptions. As you read through the regulations you will learn how to sift through things.

    The FBI NICS pamphlet mentions what the federal prohibitions are. #1 is very explicit why one would get turned down to a transfer. See DOJ form 4473(11)(b) and 4473(11)(c).

    The federal law/regulations specify a person who is a felon (with no specification on type of felony) cannot obtain, touch, use, or possess any firearm. I have supplied more information below.

    "Under the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), convicted felons and certain other persons are prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms."

    Perhaps you can find for me in that download where the act restricts felons that are other than violent offenders. I could not find it.
    See below - A7's first sentence.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#d

    (A7) How can a person apply for relief from Federal firearms disabilities?

    Under the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), convicted felons and certain other persons are prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms. The GCA provides the Attorney General with the authority to grant relief from this disability where the Attorney General determines that the person is not likely to act in a manner dangerous to the public safety and granting relief would not be contrary to the public interest. The Attorney General delegated this authority to ATF.

    Since October 1992, however, ATF's annual appropriation has prohibited the expending of any funds to investigate or act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals. As long as this provision is included in current ATF appropriations, the Bureau cannot act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(g), 922(n) and 925(c)]

    (A8) Are there any alternatives for relief from firearms disabilities?

    A person is not considered convicted for Gun Control Act purposes if he has been pardoned, had his civil rights restored, or the conviction was expunged or set aside, unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration expressly provides the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.

    Persons convicted of a Federal offense may apply for a Presidential pardon. 28 CFR 1.1-1.10 specify the rules governing petitions for obtaining Presidential pardons. You may contact the Pardon Attorney's Office at the U.S. Department of Justice, 500 First Street, N.W., Washington, DC 20530, to inquire about the procedures for obtaining a Presidential pardon.

    Persons convicted of a State offense may contact the State Attorney General's Office within the State in which they reside and the State of their conviction for information concerning any alternatives that may be available, such as pardons and civil rights restoration.

    [18 U.S.C. 921(a)(20) and (a)(33)]

    Also see http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/pdf/quikgid2.pdf

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Cain N Jones
    Yes this is true that it could of been changed after 911. I will research and get back to you all. Thanks for being open to my input as well giving input on this topic.After all research and information is our business.
    There have been changes since 9/11, but most of the regulations came from GCA of 1968.

    What type of felony did you commit? Were you a juvenile at the time?

    mark

    [Edited by Moderator: Personal Information Request in Public Forum (Refer to Private Forum Only)]

  34. #34

    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Buda
    Not to be disagreeable, but I was accurately responding to his blanket statement.
    Mark, I think Cynthia was just trying to explore common ground where everyone can agree on certain areas, rather than cause a debate. The law is very open, and a good attorney would love to argue either side of any argument, just for the sake of debate. But here we try to find points we can agree on, and it looks like you have posted several good references worth taking a look at.

    I am curious about your quote of a restoration of civil rights for a convicted felon. Is that not automatic when they have been released after parole and to state has no further issues over the previous crime?

    And are there different classes of felonies (A, B, C, etc)? I would think the minor felony convictions (non-violent no-drug use), would be in the "guidelines" hidden somewhere for exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Buda
    There have been changes since 9/11, but most of the regulations came from GCA of 1968.

    What type of felony did you commit? Were you a juvenile at the time?

    mark

    [Edited by Moderator: Personal Information Request in Public Forum (Refer to Private Forum Only)]
    Sorry, but we need to keep the personal details in a private forum and not a public forum. If he wishes to openly offer the details, then that would be his choice, but we do not want to encourage it in this area.

    However, in general if a juvenile is tried and convicted for a felony in adult court, and there has been enough time elapsed since the conviction and the sentence, would that be an exception to the guidelines (outside of the record being expunged)? (I am assuming a juvenile could only be tried in an adult court if the crime was fell in the area already described as violent or drug-related or domestic violence).

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    Re: Requirements for licensing firearms and for concealment permits

    Quote Originally Posted by Technical Support - USA
    I am curious about your quote of a restoration of civil rights for a convicted felon. Is that not automatic when they have been released after parole and to state has no further issues over the previous crime?
    Once a felon, always a felon, is pretty much the rule, with limited exceptions that I note below. Please see the FAQ along with regulations for more in-depth answers. The regulations dealing with firearms are long and can be confusing for people. The regulations on what is a felony and what disabilities are entailed are just as perplexing. You have to be willing to read a lot of regulations to figure it all out.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7
    (A7) How can a person apply for relief from Federal firearms disabilities?
    Under the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), convicted felons and certain other persons are prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms. The GCA provides the Attorney General with the authority to grant relief from this disability where the Attorney General determines that the person is not likely to act in a manner dangerous to the public safety and granting relief would not be contrary to the public interest. The Attorney General delegated this authority to ATF.
    Since October 1992, however, ATF's annual appropriation has prohibited the expending of any funds to investigate or act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals. As long as this provision is included in current ATF appropriations, the Bureau cannot act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals.
    [18 U.S.C. 922(g), 922(n) and 925(c)]
    (A8) Are there any alternatives for relief from firearms disabilities?
    A person is not considered convicted for Gun Control Act purposes if he has been pardoned, had his civil rights restored, or the conviction was expunged or set aside, unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration expressly provides the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
    Persons convicted of a Federal offense may apply for a Presidential pardon. 28 CFR 1.1-1.10 specify the rules governing petitions for obtaining Presidential pardons. You may contact the Pardon Attorney's Office at the U.S. Department of Justice, 500 First Street, N.W., Washington, DC 20530, to inquire about the procedures for obtaining a Presidential pardon.
    Persons convicted of a State offense may contact the State Attorney General's Office within the State in which they reside and the State of their conviction for information concerning any alternatives that may be available, such as pardons and civil rights restoration.
    [18 U.S.C. 921(a)(20) and (a)(33)]
    However, in general if a juvenile is tried and convicted for a felony in adult court, and there has been enough time elapsed since the conviction and the sentence, would that be an exception to the guidelines (outside of the record being expunged)? (I am assuming a juvenile could only be tried in an adult court if the crime was fell in the area already described as violent or drug-related or domestic violence).
    As a general rule, a person convicted as a felon, is a felon for life. This of course can be different at the state level, for obvious reasons. At the federal level, you are a felon with little chance for relief (See A7, last paragraph above).

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#q14
    (Q14) Is an individual who has been pardoned, or whose conviction was expunged or set aside, or whose civil rights have been restored, considered convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?
    No, as long as the pardon, expungement, or restoration does not expressly provide that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.

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