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Thread: Private Investigator (Suspect) loses Girls Coaching Job

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    Private Investigator (Suspect) loses Girls Coaching Job

    Track Coach Under Fire

    By BUD SARGENT
    Senior Staff Writer
    Marquette Mining Journal
    Tuesday, March 9, 2004

    MARQUETTE — Marquette Area Public Schools administration is investigating allegations its girls high school track coach used his position to question high school students in connection to a criminal case he was working on as a private investigator.


    Private investigator James Cihak of Marquette,
    who has served as Marquette Senior High School girls track coach since March 2003, is accused of obtaining the class schedules of two sophomore girls through his familiarity as track coach with office staff.

    The accusation was made by one of the girls’ mother and supported by a preliminary investigation conducted by MSHS Principal Robert Anthony.

    Cihak is accused of using the class schedules to locate the girls at the high school on Jan. 29, then ask their teachers to send them out in the hallway where he questioned them individually. He was working as a private investigator under court appointment on behalf of the defense in the recent Wesley W. Feltner rape case.
    The girls were friends of the alleged victim in the case. Both were called as defense witnesses at the trial, which ended in a hung jury Feb. 12.

    Feltner, 38, of 129 Dobson Place, Marquette, was tried on six counts of first degree criminal sexual conduct. Currently free on bond, Feltner will be retried on the same charges June 15. CSC first degree is a felony carrying a maximum sentence of life in prison.

    In a Feb. 27 letter obtained by The Mining Journal, Marquette schools Superintendent Patrick Smith advised Cihak that the school district was investigating the incident.

    "The allegations are serious and if they are true, there will be serious consequences," Smith wrote.

    Cihak is a retired probation and parole officer who is a member of the Marquette County Board. He is paid $2,475 a year as MSHS girls track coach. When contacted by The Mining Journal, Cihak declined to comment about the accusation.

    In a Feb. 12 letter from Anthony to Karen Antilla, mother of one of the girls involved, Anthony stated, "Mr. Cihak’s behavior in his role as a private investigator is unacceptable."

    Anthony wrote that on Jan. 29 that Cihak "gained information from our staff that has provided him with similar information in the past but in his role as a coach.

    "Although he was a stranger to (your daughter) he was not a stranger to our staff," Anthony wrote.

    Anthony also noted that "staff members typically are provided information assuming a need to know. We have since re-evaluated that assumption."

    School Board President Kellie Holmstrom said, "We don’t condone what he (Cihak) did."

    Cihak was appointed to serve as investigator by Marquette County Circuit Judge John Weber to assist attorney Karen Alholm in Feltner’s defense. Alholm did not return telephone calls from The Mining Journal.

    Weber declined to discuss the Feltner case, citing its pending nature. He did, however, describe how investigators are assigned to cases at public expense. He explained that typically the defense attorney asks the court to appoint an investigator in cases where the defendant has been declared indigent and faces significant prison time if convicted.

    "It’s the unusual case where the investigator is authorized," Weber said.

    Marquette County Assistant Prosecutor Matt Wiese said state law allows the defense to call witnesses that can possibly bring the credibility of the accuser into question. Michigan Rules of Evidence Rule 608, entitled “Evidence of Character and Conduct of Witness,” states “the credibility of a witness may be attacked or supported by evidence in the form of opinion or reputation.”
    Wiese said Cihak’s actions were inappropriate.

    "I think it could have been done in a better fashion," he said, noting that he didn’t believe the girls’ testimony impacted the case.

    Antilla has publicly addressed the Marquette school board, the district’s K-12 Extracurricular Committee and the Marquette County Board on the Cihak issue. She said that after the encounter with Cihak, her daughter was upset and was subsequently taken to a high school guidance counselor.

    "This never should have happened," Antilla told the The Mining Journal. "Students at school should be protected from that type of thing. The school needs to know what happened and make sure nothing like this ever happens again."

    Carol Lamirand, grandmother of the alleged victim in the Feltner case, told the school board at its Feb. 23 meeting that she wants Cihak removed as coach.

    "We strongly suggest that the board of education demand his immediate resignation or fire him," Lamirand said.

    Smith said he plans to complete his investigation this week.

    Other news links for updates:
    MSHS Coach Fired
    PERSONAL OPINION:
    This happened in my hometown up here in the UP of Michigan. The "investigator" is not affiliated with my agency in any way and his behavior crossed about a dozen lines, although it's hard to say that we wouldn't all want this kind of access during an investigation.

    This is a small town, though, and the fact that he was fired has a lot to do with the personalities involved. It should be noted that Michael Angeli, one of the board members quoted in the second story, is also the lieutenant detective with the Marquette City Police Department, which was one of the departments involved in the prosecution.

    The morals of the story: Don't interview kids without parent's permission, don't abuse the methods of another institution (the school) unless you can get away with it, and don't expect the world to be nice to you if you work for accused sex offenders.

    My question is, should he lose his PI license for what he did?
    JPL

  2. #2
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    This is only my personal opinion.

    If you break the rules, pay the price!

    (I volunteer as an advocate for sexual assault victims. This subject is very close to my heart so I will say no more.)

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    JPL,
    Thank you for posting this article.
    Cihak's position at the high school should have precluded him from accepting this case. He should have recognized that from the outset. Even with parental permission and their presence at the interview he is known at the school as a coach. What respect as a PI would he carry into that interview.
    By handling the interview as he did, acquiring the girls schedules as he did, certainly demeaned himself and the PI profession. This is not a case of using a personna. Ethics were violated. His license should be revoked.
    Bob

  4. #4

    Forgive my ignorance......

    After reading this article it seems obvious that there was both a conflict of interest, as well as some ethical violations. I am wondering, for the record, as I am very new to this industry and wnat to learn form others mistakes first, what, specifically, were the laws, and/or ethical standards that were broken. I saw the info regarding permission to interview minors, and violating an institutions policies.
    Considering the sum of his coaching salary, and the size of the town. I consider whether others would have known of his PI career considering he was reputable enough to be apointed by the court. Additionally, it would seem that a great deal of the attitude toward this individual stem from the fact that he is being associated with a rapist and as it would appear that in the communities eyes, is trying to free the suspect. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like these folks understand that an investigation is simply a search for the truth, and as I would like to believe, that if this man is quilty than anything that he will find would ultimately point to that.
    Something that we all must consider is someday being in this individuals position to investigate on behalf of the defence, and although I can't imagine it being easy, one should remember how important ones role is to fufilling one of the basic foundations of Amercian justice and how critical your job your performace would be in the eyes of the wrongly accused.


    Respectfully,
    Abe King

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    Mr. King,
    I couldn't agree with you more regarding the publics sentiment having an influence on the school board in the matter of Cihak's firing.
    It's a shame, but that is the way small towns are and because of that, and more important, his appointed position as investigator for the defense,his methods should have been beyond reproach.
    He used his position as coach to get the girls' schedule.
    He interviewed them outside their class room.
    He interviewed without receiving parental permission.
    Determining what their schedules were tells me that it was his intention to interview them in school and without parental consent at the outset.
    The LEO in Chicago can't interview minors without parental consent. Who does this guy think he is?
    The only way he could have access to these girls in school would have been through his position as a coach.
    Believe me when I say that, had I been the parent of one of those girls, not only would Cihak be answering to me, but so would the principal of the school. He had no business any farther into that school other than to the admissions office as a private investigator. If he received the information as a coach and used it as a PI, he crossed the line.
    Knowing the situation, small town, public sentiment, the nature of the crime, I believe Cihak did his client a disservice by his conduct.
    It is not our job to influence the
    American Justice System indirectly by utilizing questionable or unethical interview procedures.
    Bob

  6. #6
    Please forgive me if I'm way off base with my response, I'm new to this field and I'm trying to get a handle on what the actual law(s) state so thusly this is just my opinion. (So please no one take offense I'm just learning.) Upon reading the article about the coach/pi I can't help but feel that he was out of place questioning the young girls in the hallway of the school. I have always thought that interrogations weren't allowed without parental consent. I would think that if he was appointed by the courts he should done his interogations outside of school property and he should have gotten parental consent to do so. If he was on school property his role was to be a coach. It seems to me that he attempted to wear two hats in a conflicting area. I can understand the school firing the coach due to the pressure they received from parents, however I don't feel that his career as a PI should be in any danger.

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    Conflagration of bad decisions

    Piece by piece, I have to say that most of the issues in contention here could be considered reasonable investigative "shorthand."

    You might want to find out a student's schedule, so being a coach or knowing a coach might allow for that.

    You might want to "pre-interview" a juvenile subject before talking to the parents about an actual formal interview.

    Neither incidence has ever caused me any problems in an investigation, and I've done both.

    But put them together, then we've got a problem, as you saw.

    The big issue here is wearing two hats. Especially in a small town, there has to be a distinction of the role being played.

    In this case, coaching should be done at the school and investigating done elsewhere, unless the school is involved.
    JPL

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    JPL,
    How could the school be involved without parental consent.
    I would raise holy**** if the made the decision to permit a PI or LEO interview one of my children without me knowing.
    Pre-interview? The term itself reeks.
    Is the student going to be on or trying out for that coaches team? If not, the coach has no need to know.
    Jim, I liked the way you broke everthing down. Kept it simple.
    Thank you.
    Bob

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    Most interviews are pre-interviews

    Bob,

    When looking at what I do as an investigator, I consider most of my interviews to be pre-interviews, no matter how stinky the term appears. There are also some actual interviews and also some interrogations, but most of what I do isn't the end-all, be-all when it comes to questioning sources.

    Usually, an attorney or claims person is waiting in the wings to find out what I found out during a pre-interview. Any information of true value is usually generated later during a deposition or in testimony, when the subject is under oath, or details of my pre-interview are used to take action with an understanding that any subsequent litigation will result in an under-oath interview.

    This doesn't mean that my interviews are any less thorough than what will be brought forward under oath. In fact, it's just the opposite. I will take an interview many, many places that no lawyer in their right mind would go on the stand.

    This does apply to chance encounters with older juveniles, teenaged witnesses and the like. If a parent were to gripe, I'd say that I was just pre-interviewing them to determine if I needed to bother the parents for a formal interview. Then I would segue into an interview of the parents using the information gathered from the kid.

    I always try to get the parents involved, but I also have an obligation to conduct a quick investigation. In most cases, the client's budget is fairly limited and waiting for mom and dad to get home could unreasonably add expense to the file.

    Does this appear ethical? Not on the surface, but on a per case basis there is room to push the envelope. My point of view is, if I think I can sell a judge on my methods, hey, it's ethical.

    Now tracking down and interviewing students in school using my coaching position as access? Not a lot of judges are going to buy that one.
    JPL

  10. #10

    I wonder....

    First off I wanted to thank Mr. Paluch for his clarification regarding the actual infringements that this PI was guilty of.
    Secondly, I wonder if parental permission had been requested if the PI would have had access to the girls. It would appear that the local sentiment was already against him, and that the parents of these girls, who probably view there daughters as potential victims (young females) of the rapist, would be very opposed to allowing the testimony or statement of one of their girls to aid in the rapist defense. Would his actions have even been given a second thought if were investigating for the prosecution, I am inclined to believe not.
    I think that Robert hit the nail on the head when he said that "his methods should have been beyond reproach". Anyone who is put into a position to investigate on behalf of the defense would do well to keep that in mind as well as the realization that he or she is investigating on behalf of the defense, not on behalf of the suspect, and that the more ethical and professional there actions, the greater service they do to the victims, the society, the justice system, and America on the whole.


    Respectfully,
    Abe King

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    JPL,
    So, if I understand you correctly, you will take your pre interview as far as the surrounding circumstances will allow. You see, I don't disagree with your methods,but I'm just having a hard time buying the terminology.
    Pre interview; ask questions, gather information.
    Interview; ask questions, gather information.

    I'm beginning to believe I'm dumb as a box of rocks.
    Call it what you want, but if you are gathering information in the course of an investigation from an individual, that's an interview.
    To submit to a court that pre interviews are conducted to determine whether an interview should be conducted to determine if there should be an interrrogation? Parents of minors or judges will buy that?


    It just seems that using the term creates a slippery slope of questioning regarding overall methodology. Why would we want to put ourselves in that position?
    Thank you for tolerating me.
    I will now give it a rest.
    Bob

  12. #12

    Smile PI loses Coaching Job....

    My opinion follows that of many others, the two hats - Coach/PI creates a conflict of interest. Coaching should be done on school property, PI work done off school property. The pre-interview tactics i feel is a great way to cut down on wasted time, either a person has some information or they dont, the pre-interview could help screen valued info or on the hand weed out what the informer may have heard from others....part of the PI's job in investigations is to obtain valuable information sourses and avoid being sent on wild-goose chases...........

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    More on Mr. Cihak

    Here's an update. They had a heated meeting last night and decided to keep Mr. Cihak fired.



    Cihak firing upheld
    By A.M. KELLEY
    Journal Staff Writer
    MARQUETTE — The Marquette school board voted Monday to support Superintendent Pat Smith’s firing of Jim Cihak as the Marquette Senior High School girls track coach.
    Board member Rich Rossway was absent.
    While admitting there were some gray areas in this case, board member Mark Smith summed up the board’s sentiments in saying that Cihak “exercised some poor judgment.” Smith said his duty as a board member is to support its No. 1 goal: “to provide a safe, caring, and successful educational environment for all students.”
    School safety was foremost on Smith’s agenda when he fired Cihak effective March 10 after an incident at MSHS. Cihak has never disputed the core fact in this case: On Jan. 29 he had received the class schedules from school secretaries of two female students and interviewed them in the hallway outside of their classrooms, not in his role as coach, but as a private investigator.
    Cihak had come to the school as a private investigator working for defense attorney Karen Alholm on a criminal sexual conduct case involving Wesley Feltner. The girls interviewed by Cihak were later called as witnesses for the defense in Feltner’s trial, which ended Feb. 12 in a hung jury. He will be retried in June.
    One of the students was brought to a school counselor after breaking down in tears when returning to class after being interviewed by Cihak. Her mother, Karen Antilla, urged the school board to take corrective action, as did Carol Lamirand, the grandmother of the alleged victim in the Feltner case.
    “(My daughter) was badgered by Cihak,” Antilla told the board Monday. “Why didn’t he question my daughter at home?”
    The original complaints resulted in an investigation by Smith and the subsequent firing.
    Speaking in support of Cihak at Monday’s meeting, local attorney Bill Rekshan (who was not representing Cihak) said that whenever young people are involved in a criminal case — whether as victims, defendants or witnesses — it’s unfortunate and charged with emotion. He urged the board to look at the facts, and not make a decision based on emotions.
    “Jim Cihak was doing what he was hired to do,” he said. “He had full authority. There was nothing wrong with what he did.”
    Questions have arisen as to whether Cihak did do something wrong in violating school visitor policies.
    “I followed the same process I’ve been following for 22 years,” Cihak said. “There was no intent to mislead the office staff.”
    Although now a private investigator, Cihak worked for 22 years as a probation officer and routinely visited the school, received class schedules and interviewed students.
    “What occurred in the office Jan. 29 was a misunderstanding,” said parent Mark Delorey. “Firing Jim will not create the perception that the school is safe.”
    Many parents and students — there were about 75 people at the meeting — speaking in favor of reinstating Cihak believed that less severe corrective action should have been taken.
    “The punishment is not just,” said Mike Quayle, a retired police officer who now is a security officer at the Marquette County Courthouse. “Is this his first offense, if this is an offense? The firing is too severe.”
    Cihak’s abilities as a coach were brought up by many students and parents.
    “There were a range of actions which could have been taken,” said parent Robert Ziel who wanted to see Cihak remain on staff as a coach. “(Smith) chose the extreme action.”
    Board member Mike Angeli, who is a detective captain with the Marquette City Police, said that coaching was not the issue.
    “School is not there as a venue for this type of investigation,” he said. “Students are available at other times of the day.”
    Asked for a statement after the board announced its decision, Cihak said: “I am unable to comment due to pending litigation.”
    Board members present voted unanimously to support Smith’s decision to fire Cihak.
    Feltner’s retrial is set for June 15. He is charged with six counts of first degree criminal sexual conduct.



    I'd like to interject a few things into the conversation that need to be noted:

    Mr. Cihak is correct in saying that he frequently visited schools as a probation officer, obtained student schedule information from the office, and conducted interviews in the hallways. I also know that if a police officer wants to talk to a student, it's that simple: get the schedule, go find him and do an interview.

    So what's different about a PI? Nothing should be. If the prosecution can have instant access to a student with or without parental consent, so can the defense. Otherwise, the quick route to justice is reserved for the State, not the individual.

    I've gone to schools and called students out of class on several occasions for interviews, including several potential witnesses in a sex assault case. No one has ever questioned it before, just like they wouldn't question a police officer seeking to interview witnesses.

    In this case, the parents blew a torsion bar because one of the girls became agitated. Since he was a coach, anyone observing the situation from the outside would suspect that he received unfair access, which was not the case.

    As far as interviewing juveniles away from their parents or guardians, that's on a case-by-case basis. Some kids at 15 or 16 might as well be adults. They are mature and thoughtful and can be reliable sources. On the other hand, I know some 18-year-old high schoolers I wouldn't trust whether their parents were there or not.

    Can you interview school kids without their parent's consent? Yes. Should you in every case? No.


    Separately to James L. Parmenter: Find it unique that my full name is James Parmater Lyons. Not a lot of Parmenter or Parmaters around. But JL are always good initials.

    JPL is cooler, though.
    JPL

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    The Rape Case

    JPL[THE COOL]
    Points well made and you have convinced me. How could Cihak know that what he had been doing in the past would now backfire on him?
    It's interesting to note that the school officials developed a case of CYA in this instance but not in others. According to the article he has conducted himself in this manner before. That didn't make it right, but no one said anything.
    Should he lose his license over this? I think not. He already lost one job.
    You made a powerful point that police could interview the girls at just about any time or any place, so why couldn't Cihak as a Court appointee have the same opportunity.
    Anyway,JPL, this has been fun. Should you ever wish to move to the tropics of Chicago I'd consider it an honor to have you as my trainer.
    Bob

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    Also, aside from questioning them without parental consent, wasn't he supposed to have someone else present, seeing that he is a male, questioning a female?

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    Miss Ria,
    It's my understanding the questioning took place in the school hallway. I believe that could be considered an open public space.
    Bob

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    ok, that might be true... but I used to work for two high schools, and some of the hallways are not that public. If he were in my high schools, the best place would be a counselor or nurse's office lounge.

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    Miss Ria,
    A nurses or counselors office would be a private area. I'd rather pre interview in a public hallway. I don't want anyone mistaking my intentions. Using the schools private facilities would really have this guy crossing over the line.
    Bob

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    You're right, I never thought about that. Well, bottom line is that he should have gone about things very differently, as a PI, not a coach.

  20. #20
    William D Hatton Guest
    I say the guy did cross some lines. the parent's should have been asked, the teacher's should be reported, and there sould be some kind of punishment given to the P.I. Maybe some kind of fine, but I don't know about losing his license.

  21. #21
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    Hi Maria,
    I agree not with out parental consent should they be questioned about
    a rape.
    Flora

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    I believe that this PI handled the situation all wrong. As a LEO, I can not use information that I obtain from our computer system, or elsewhere in an investigation. That breaks the oath that I upheld in my position as a LEO. Is this really any different? As a PO, he had alot more access to records that a PI just can't walk in and get. I believe that he knew better and did it anyway. His clients, client is innocent until proven guilty, but that does not mean that he can break laws to prove him innocent.

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    I completely agree, any time you want to question a minor you should first deal with the minor's parents.

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    It is great to see the disscussion surrounding this. Take this and learn from it. I don't know about other states but I know here in California, if I am conducting an investigation, I have to announce that fact to the person(s) being interviewed/interrogated. remember we only have our personal Intergrity and reputation. That incident, even it is was his first and only, will long haunt him.
    JOHN F. STRACK
    Licensed Private Investigator (CA #23978)
    California, USA

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    Knew better took the chance ???

    undefined
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham King
    After reading this article it seems obvious that there was both a conflict of interest, as well as some ethical violations. I am wondering, for the record, as I am very new to this industry and wnat to learn form others mistakes first, what, specifically, were the laws, and/or ethical standards that were broken. I saw the info regarding permission to interview minors, and violating an institutions policies.
    Considering the sum of his coaching salary, and the size of the town. I consider whether others would have known of his PI career considering he was reputable enough to be apointed by the court. Additionally, it would seem that a great deal of the attitude toward this individual stem from the fact that he is being associated with a rapist and as it would appear that in the communities eyes, is trying to free the suspect. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like these folks understand that an investigation is simply a search for the truth, and as I would like to believe, that if this man is quilty than anything that he will find would ultimately point to that.
    Something that we all must consider is someday being in this individuals position to investigate on behalf of the defence, and although I can't imagine it being easy, one should remember how important ones role is to fufilling one of the basic foundations of Amercian justice and how critical your job your performace would be in the eyes of the wrongly accused.


    Respectfully,
    Abe King

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    the coach being fried for doing a court appointed assignment

    I Have A Couple Of Questions
    #1 Why Was The Defence Council Appointed A Investigaton?was His Or Her Client Not Being Cooperative?was The Client Caught In Lies?
    Did The Witnesses Testimonies Not Quite Ring True?
    #2 With The Pi Having Conflict Of Intrest In This Case Shouldn't The Judge Or The Pi Have Removed The Pi From The Case?
    #3 Why Is The Mother Of The One Girl Making Such A Big To Do? I Have Children Also If My Childern Were Being Questioned With Out Use Of Cohersion And Were Being Treated With Respect ,i Would Have No Problems.

    (point Of Intrest) I Lived In A Small Town In Missouri
    The Principal Of The School Was In Trouble For Child Molestion. The School Children Were Questioned And
    The Principal Went To Jail.the Truth Was What Was Wanted And That Is What Came About.
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Nance
    I Have A Couple Of Questions
    #1 Why Was The Defence Council Appointed A Investigaton?was His Or Her Client Not Being Cooperative?was The Client Caught In Lies?
    Did The Witnesses Testimonies Not Quite Ring True?
    #2 With The Pi Having Conflict Of Intrest In This Case Shouldn't The Judge Or The Pi Have Removed The Pi From The Case?
    #3 Why Is The Mother Of The One Girl Making Such A Big To Do? I Have Children Also If My Childern Were Being Questioned With Out Use Of Cohersion And Were Being Treated With Respect ,i Would Have No Problems.

    (point Of Intrest) I Lived In A Small Town In Missouri
    The Principal Of The School Was In Trouble For Child Molestion. The School Children Were Questioned And
    The Principal Went To Jail.the Truth Was What Was Wanted And That Is What Came About.
    Tim
    #1 As I understand it, an investigator was assigned to help a public defender, because the defendent could not afford his own defense. Some Public Defenders offices have full-time investigators that they assign themselves, some do not.

    #2 The conflict of interst in this case seems questionable. I work for an organization that has 1,000 employees, most of whom are unknown to me. How is it a conflict of interest if I interview co-workers that I may have never met? Being affiliated with the same organization or body mayconstitute a conflict of interest, but not necessarily. In this case, were the girls questioned on a team that the PI coached? Did he teach classes they were in? If their only contact with him was passing in the hall, then the conflict of interest is more imagined than real.

    #3 If he was acting on his own, it should be a big deal. But as a court-appointed investigator assisting a public defender, he had every bit as much authority to interview those girls in the school as a police officer would. Personally, I think it's best to work through the parents. I believe in Michigan, any information he obtained would be inadmissable without parental involvement. However, there is no law saying he can't speak to them without parents present. Also, the idea that the school's visitor policies outweigh the authority a court gives an appointee is repulsive.

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    Thanks For Your Reply Donald Jones.
    Tim Nance

  29. #29
    Wow, I can see everyone's way of thinking. I think that there is a huge conflict of interest and that the PI should have wondered himself and asked. It is a problem that he did not recognize which "hat" he is suppose to be wearing at the time. I would wonder if he keeps his PI license - does he know the difference next time - on a case?

    In my opinion, teachers/coaches are respected elders and/or mentors. Young people should be and are raised to think this way about their educational leaders. If my daughter had been questioned on school property, by a coach or teacher regarding a a questionable subject and nothing to do with school -I would feel that my daughter had been disrespected and violated. As someone said earlier "he crossed the line."

    Thanks for all the interesting posts.

    Jennifer

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    Conflict of Interest? Where? He is a Teacher/Coach at that school. What if he witnesses a drug deal going down or some sort of sexual assault? What is he supposed to do? Run and call the Parents then call the Principal then call the Police?

    He was there by demand of the Defense Council, in my mind he had every right to ask questions of these students and by doing it individually in a public school hallway would suffice in most cases (I think he should have at least notified the Principal). I am not by any means defending his actions, he should have not taken the case knowing the outcome could be detrimental to his emplyment there. But for a parent to get outraged and question the rights he had is outrageous. If my child came home and said he was interviewed by a Teacher/Coach from school today due to a sexual assualt that may have taken place or a drug deal that went down, my first step as a parent would have been to contact the school and find out what happened. Was my child part of it or did he/she witness it? If the answer was part of it then I would want full details if he/she may have witnessed something let's find out the truth. With the parents around he/she may have lied to keep the parents from getting angry with them. Again, these are my thoughts and I do think the town made the right decision to terminate him but should he lose his PI license --> No - Not in my mind!
    "Keep On Keepin On!"

    Steve McAtee
    Badge# 10053

  31. #31
    I understand your thoughts, but he did not "witness" anything- unfortunately, these were his actions and I think that if I were in his shoes - I would have thought this out slightly better.

    One of my questions that keeps coming back to me is "Doesn't he know that he is a 'coach' to the school and he had to sign some kind of contract/code of ethics. If our school systems accepts these kinds of actions, what will happen next? People tend to keep pushing the envelope.

    To be clearer, I do not know if I would take away his PI (yes, the coach job), however, I would hope that he is supervised on his next cases - to make sure that he understands the PI process, etc.

    Respectfully,

    Jennifer

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    590
    I never said he witnesses anything, he was appointed the PI for the Defense Coucil. He should have not accepted the case in my mind or if he did he should have notified the school district that he would be interviewing some of the children to get additional information. Then the school district should have been given the list of children and contacted the parents to inform them and to also give them the opportunity to say, "Hey, we want to be present".

    Yes I think they (Children) should have had some sort of representation present (Parent/Principal/Teacher) prior to being questioned therefore I think the school district took the proper measures but again I don't think it warrants losing your PI license over or the need to be supervised. I do NOT feel he broke and CoE but he never should have taken the case.
    "Keep On Keepin On!"

    Steve McAtee
    Badge# 10053

  33. #33
    Hey Steve,

    I believe that we become better, wiser and stronger people after experiences whether or not they are positve or negative none.

    I totally understand what you are saying!

    Best Regards,

    Jennifer

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    590
    Yes Ma'am we all make mistakes and I am sure that I will make some when I get moving forward but just like you said we learn from them and it makes us better in the long run.

    Best wishes to you!
    "Keep On Keepin On!"

    Steve McAtee
    Badge# 10053

  35. #35
    Hey Steve,

    I believe that we become better, wiser and stronger people after experiences whether or not they are positve or negative ones.

    I totally understand what you are saying!

    Best Regards,

    Jennifer[/QUOTE]

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    67

    Response To The Coach/pi Debate

    As I Read The Input From So Many Of You All.it Starts Me Thinking.
    I Read Where Some Do The Same Thing In The Same Way Every Time.
    Have You Ever Filled Out A Questionair For A Job Noticing A Lot Of The Questionare Very Similar. When People Lie They Have A Tendency To Trip Up And Show They Are Lieing.
    What I 'am Tring To Say We Are To Do Our Job With Integrity While Preserving Integrity.tear Apart And Tear Down Us Makes Our Creditability LESS THAN WHAT IT SHOULD BE.
    If The Girls Would Have Been Questioned In The Presents Of Thier Parents Using A Series Of Preprogramed Questions The Truth Has A Way Of Being Produced.
    If Were Pi's ,school Teachers,police Officers,coaches Or Whatever We Might Be We Want To Be Respected We Must Show Respect.
    Each Case Must Be Handled On A Case By Case Situation.
    At All Times We Must Use What Gave Us Between Our Ears.
    We Need To Stay Out Of The Lime Light And Focus On What We Have Been Hired To Do.
    Thinking Of Possiable Outcomes Of What Our Action Will Create And Using The Best Avenue To Get The Job Done Without The Agervation.
    I See Where There Is A Challenge Behind Every Corner.
    Focus On The Issues At Hand Do Your Research Know Where You Stand Or What Will Work Best.
    Thought Processes When Being Lies Can Help Produce The Truth.
    Note Body Language ,inability To Look At You,figity,sweating,quick Responses(as If Reheressed)and Even Pupil Dilation.
    Does Anyone Else See What I'am Saying ?
    Making Notes Or The Impression You Are Will Sometimes Give You The Edge You Need To Stay In Control.


    Good Luck In All Your Endevers
    Tim Nance
    Last edited by Timothy Nance; 08-22-2004 at 08:31 PM. Reason: INCOMPLETE WORDING

  37. #37
    Dominic Iannucci -'s Avatar
    Dominic Iannucci - is offline
    Former Protective Services Agent - US Army
    International Private Investigator

    Executive Agency Owner Member - IPIU
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Middle East & USA
    Posts
    320
    If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying....and if you get caught cheating, you're not trying hard enough! J/J

    There definitley was a conflict of interest from the outset. The Coach/PI should have recognized this and advised the court. Good lesson to be learned.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    94
    I can see both side of what everyone is saying in regards to conflict of interest. To make matters worse it takes place in a small town with "personalities". Even though I am new to this business, I think that I would have tried to "shy" away from that case if it were possible. (I live in a small town also). Then again, everyone is entitled to representation and perhaps he was the best person for the job. We may not all agree on his tactics, but I think he has to given alot of credit for taking the case under those circumstances. Lose the coaching job? I would have to say yes. Lose his license? I would have to say no. Just my opinion and I really enjoyed reading all of the discussion.

    Bill

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    219
    This was all so interesting alot of good points were made, what was the actual outcome from all this?

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    136

    Re: Private Investigator (Suspect) loses Girls Coaching Job

    what this incident has taught me,... is one thing. We as PI's really need to to have every move thought out, or planned as practical as possible,.... or we suffer the consequences of our actions... I don't want to spend the rest of my life, wandering if this job is going to send me to jail or expulsion, because I over stepped my bounds.

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