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Thread: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

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    Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    In today's Newsday, a Long Island, NY newspaper, a private investigator was raked over the coals by an attorney who proved that the PI's surveillance was done at at particular address (say 29 Rose Place) instead of at 29 Rose Lane. The profession was made to look foolish, and the local paper really played it up. Have any of you had similar experiences?

    PS: The addresses are ficticious for this posting only.

    Fred

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    William R. Larson - is offline (Retired from Forum Activity)

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    Sounds like a witch hunt to me.

    In law enforcement, there are protections under the law for good faith errors, at least to a certain extent. The error will fall back on someone. Somewhere along the way someone screwed up. If it can be proven as a minor error such as a typo, such drastic measures to humiliate would likely not be condoned. However, the purpose of any defense attorney is to make everything the prosecution presents look wrong, or at least to get as much of it thrown out as possible.

    Depending on the magnitude of the error depends on the legitimacy of the assault. If it was something as minor as a typo or something like that, made in good faith, a civil suit of slander might be brought on the defense attorney.

    Defense attorneies are constantly on the hunt for cops who make a minor mistake during the investigation. Occassionally, that little mistake might be enough to lose the case. Defense attornies are always on the lookout to damage or destroy the credibility of anyone testifying against their client. That's what they are paid to do!

    I might have mentioned the following story before, but I'll mention it again. I met a defense attorney who argued his case all the way to the US Supreme Court. He was representing a client who he knew was guilty as sin, however the client had not been Mirandized prior to interview and interrogation. Every court below the US Supreme Court agreed with the original conviction, but the US Supreme Court overturned it.

    The minor mistake (arguably major mistake) by the officers cost the case. Even lower courts thought the mistake was negligible, but they were proven wrong.

    Moral of the story? Have your I's dotted and your T's crossed! Avoid such circumstances!

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    Flora Porter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Budde
    In today's Newsday, a Long Island, NY newspaper, a private investigator was raked over the coals by an attorney who proved that the PI's surveillance was done at at particular address (say 29 Rose Place) instead of at 29 Rose Lane. The profession was made to look foolish, and the local paper really played it up. Have any of you had similar experiences?

    PS: The addresses are ficticious for this posting only.

    Fred
    Hi Fred,

    It just so happen that I had a similar experience.

    As a private investigator I was assigned to go to say 123 Ave.
    Im glad I found out my directions were not clear.

    123 Ave was on the other side of town.
    I really wanted 123 Drive which was in this vacinity.
    Which worked out I got paid for the day's assignment.

    PI FPorter

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Flora Porter
    Hi Fred,

    It just so happen that I had a similar experience.

    As a private investigator I was assigned to go to say 123 Ave.
    Im glad I found out my directions were not clear.

    123 Ave was on the other side of town.
    I really wanted 123 Drive which was in this vacinity.
    Which worked out I got paid for the day's assignment.

    PI FPorter
    Ah yes. Drive, road, lane, place, way,avenue, etc.

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    This is doubly of concern in cities like mine, where there can be near exact duplicate addresses with the exception of one extra (almost nonsensical) identifier on the end of the address such as: 123 West Port Street and 123 West Port Street Road. Even folks who live here are easily mistaken on addresses like that, since what town in their right mind would do such a thing?? Perhaps even worse, tho, is that these two addresses are usually within a block and run parallel to each other so that without other identifying info one could easily set up surveillance on the wrong residence. There are also "East" and "West" matching addresses to throw into the mix.

    I happen to live at one of these near-duplicate addresses, and I don't know about the folks at the other house but I have a difficult time even getting pizza delivered to the right address - even when I say "Do not make a mistake and go to ___ Street Road! You have to come all the way to the 4-way stop sign, which is ___ Street."

    Our mail is constantly misdelivered, even when it's addressed correctly.

    It makes me glad I'm not going to be involved in "no-knock" raids, such as the type police have been involved in during the past few years where they've gotten the wrong addresses and cause in one case a fatal heart attack, and in others fatal shootings of innocent civilians (not in my town). I'd have a difficult time doing my job if I knew I might be the cause of such an outcome.

    I suppose the moral is to make sure you've got enough overall identifying info that you can't be mistaken before you set up your tripod in the thornbushes.

    /Jan

  6. #6
    Jan;
    How 'bout in DC, where every address ends up in N.W or S.W?

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    Ms Minta Thomson's Avatar
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    Angry AZ Ave vs. ST ??

    Here in AZ, Phoenix and other cities all have a grid layout.....now that is great for understanding your direction ....N/S are all Aves (largest to smallest ...100-central) then Streets start (central to 100 ...etc) E/W all have names ......

    Now the issue lies in when someone tells you they are at:

    say.... 127th ave and Cactus.......and you dont pay attn as your are driving and end up searching for their house (calling on the cell..."where the heck are U) when in reality your are at 127th Street...about 30 minutes (depending on traffic)...away from where you should be.

    Try being the pizza guy! LOL

    Minta

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    Sounds a bit confusing but the message is very clear, you better have your P's and Q's in order!

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    First, you can never have too much information and second, keep in touch with whoever assigned you the case. I had case in New Mexico where two brothers switched their homes and automobiles to throw off any one looking at the brother who had filed a claim. I checked in daily with the agent and she informed me that I was looking at this guys brother. I had no info that he had a brother but soon obtained information on the dirty bro that resulted in a positive outcome for the client.

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    It appears to be a good lesson regarding how, if we’re not diligent in our attention to detail, it can affect the entire profession.

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    Thanks for the warning, I hope this is something that I can avoid due to the great responses given here.

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    I'm so glad you posted this! I guess it would be a good idea to repeat the directions and confirm that you know where you are going.

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    Don't panic people. No one is beyond making a reasonable error.As long as there is, "...no malice aforethought." I haven't met too many attorneys who would try to make themselves look better by making someone else look like a fool. Capitalizing on your failure to be doubly sure of where you shoul be conducting a surveillance leaves you open to criticism - but not the entire profession. Conducting 'due dilligence' in your efforts as a private investigator will keep you free from personal attacks like the one mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flora Porter
    Hi Fred,

    It just so happen that I had a similar experience.

    As a private investigator I was assigned to go to say 123 Ave.
    Im glad I found out my directions were not clear.

    123 Ave was on the other side of town.
    I really wanted 123 Drive which was in this vacinity.
    Which worked out I got paid for the day's assignment.

    PI FPorter
    I too have had a similiar experience..

    Some time ago when I was a rook and still working under an Agency I was assigned to a child custody case. This was a big case which also had the potential to yield big "billable hours."

    I should also note that all of our initial (preliminary) case files were all put together by our office manager, which we were then provided with as the case was assigned to us. Basic info (stats/address/plates/etc,) maps to residence, pictures of residence, DMV mug, etc.

    At any rate, my subject was believed to reside at [123 SuchAndSuch Place] in [Smalltownsville.] Once I arrived in town, I did my usual "drive-by" to locate the presumed residence/confirm the subject's presence, etc. Also noted in my case file, was that the subject was a single person whom lived alone, and owned two vehicles- a white SUV and a grey sportscar.

    As I drove past 123 SuchAndSuch Place for the first time, I noticed that the actual residence at that location looked NOTHING like the picture which I had been provided with. Furthermore, neither the white SUV, nor the grey sportscar were present at the address which my client had provided. In fact, the garage door was open, and two alltogether DIFFERENT vehicles were present. According to my client, the subject would have still been at work at this time.

    Naturally my first thought was, how could the subject be driving both vehicles at the same time? Maybe he/she had a boyfriend/girlfriend who had been driving the other vehicle? If so, who did these other two vehicles belong to?

    After further review of my map, I discovered that there were in fact, THREE streets which ran parallel to each other. SuchAndSuch Place, SuchAndSuch Street, and SuchAndSuch Drive.

    Could it be "Street" or "Drive" instead of "Place?"

    I start combing the neighboring streets, no luck. This assignment took place on a Friday afternoon, and my only contact with client was at his place of employment, so I couldn't call to try and verify the address. I decided to go ahead and set up on the address which was provided and wait at least until the subject would be expected home from work. The residence was located near the end of a cul-de-sac and nearby was a church with an optimal vantage point. I quickly obtained permission from the Pastor to conduct surveillance on their property, and set up. Minutes turned into nearly 2-3 hours, nothing.

    I had just called in to inform the office of my findings (or lack thereof) and was simultaneously pulling out of the church parking lot. I was on the phone with the office manager and briefly took my eye off the road to glance down at my file holder. I looked up and saw a SUV pulling out of a neighboring residence, and stopped to let them out. I glanced down at my file again- WAIT! It wasn't just any ol' SUV, it was the WHITE SUV, license #5551212 that I was looking for!

    As it turned out, the numbers had been accidently transposed. Even after combing up and down the street, and the two others, I was unable to locate the house because it had been painted a completely different color and had new shrubs in the front. Had I not been pulling out from the lot when I did, I would have completely missed my subject, as the ACTUAL residence was not visible from my surveillance position.

    I guess the lesson there was three things...

    1) Never assume.

    2) Check, check, double check, triple check, and check again after that.

    3) Sometimes, you just get really lucky!
    Anthony Miller
    Director of Investigations/Operations
    RISING SUN INVESTIGATIONS
    "Bringing The Truth To Light"
    anthony.miller@pi-agency.us

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    Rickey Latch's Avatar
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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    I was working on a case in a rural area which proved to be difficult to gain access to. After parking two football fields back in the woods I then hiked to a location as to allow me to photograph the home of the suspect. With this being the first I have sub contracted from this paticular agency I called and asked if they needed hourly pictures or film. I was informed to get a picture when I arrived and when I left if there was no activity. I took a picture upon arriving and one every three hours. When I left the location and returned home, three hour drive, I transfered pics as well as video and sent in report. Two weeks later I was informed that I must have been at the wrong location for the suspect was at a doctor's appointment when I took the pictures. I went back out to he same location and filmed again as well as took pictures every hour on the hour. It was the correct location and suspect. The company I sub contracted with was informed by the client that they feel as I did not go to correct location even though they were provided with pics...This is one of those cases where you wonder why you do this job...I charged for eight hours only with a three hour drive to and from the location. The company I sub-contracted with was excellent however they had to deal with the client. It shows that some people are hard to deal with even if you have pictures. How do others handle locations that are almost impossible to keep under surveillance.

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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickey Latch
    I was working on a case in a rural area which proved to be difficult to gain access to. After parking two football fields back in the woods I then hiked to a location as to allow me to photograph the home of the suspect. With this being the first I have sub contracted from this paticular agency I called and asked if they needed hourly pictures or film. I was informed to get a picture when I arrived and when I left if there was no activity. I took a picture upon arriving and one every three hours. When I left the location and returned home, three hour drive, I transfered pics as well as video and sent in report. Two weeks later I was informed that I must have been at the wrong location for the suspect was at a doctor's appointment when I took the pictures. I went back out to he same location and filmed again as well as took pictures every hour on the hour. It was the correct location and suspect. The company I sub contracted with was informed by the client that they feel as I did not go to correct location even though they were provided with pics...This is one of those cases where you wonder why you do this job...I charged for eight hours only with a three hour drive to and from the location. The company I sub-contracted with was excellent however they had to deal with the client. It shows that some people are hard to deal with even if you have pictures. How do others handle locations that are almost impossible to keep under surveillance.
    I know what you mean. As investigators it's our job to be objective, and report the FACTS, weather "the facts" are what the client had hoped for, or not.

    99% of the time my client is pleased with the work performed, and does not dispute any aspect of the investigation, nor are there any "billing issues." Then there is the rare occasion which arises where the client decides that the findings of your investigation (aka: "facts," and "the truth") are not satisfactory, and do not want to pay you. I have found that to be prevailent with "domestic" type investigations more than anything.

    Worse yet, is the client who IS satisfied with your work, and yet still drags their feet when it comes time to drop a check in the mail. Yes, yes... how frustrating that can sometimes be.

    After the most recent experience where I'd got "shafted" on a bill, I made the decision not to take any case without a full retainer, up front, no exceptions. No more "making exceptions" when I've "done work for this/that person before," etc.

    Get the money up front, and if for some reason there is a dispute regarding the billing, then the other party can choose to litigate, rather than you (the inv) being left empty handed after a well conducted and fully completed investigation, and having to litigate in order to collect payment for services provided.

    Just a thought..
    Anthony Miller
    Director of Investigations/Operations
    RISING SUN INVESTIGATIONS
    "Bringing The Truth To Light"
    anthony.miller@pi-agency.us

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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    In response to Mr. Larson re lawyers getting paid to discredit witnesses. Despite what anyone says - lawyers have a legal burden to develop the truth - to seek justice. If that is not how things are - it has nothing to do with what their responsibilities are.

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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    raked over a coal, in missouri to find the place takes skill in it self, streets are split so one part may be over here the one you want over there somewhere but its there & I mean may be across townbut its the same street, flip happens, must be tough being a lawyer
    Last edited by Lynne Knight; 04-10-2007 at 07:21 PM.

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    Gary Leineweber -'s Avatar
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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    Mr. Larson's post pretty much said it all I think....defense atty's do look at discrediting cops, witnesses and PI's for the smallest of errors.
    I've been on both sides of the street and can tell you from experience that there is a reason for being thorough on an investigation and report...especially when the State is so tied up with other matters....that it really doesn't have time to review in detail each report with a fine tooth comb.
    Now, as a defense atty's investigator....that is a different story. I have been retained by defense atty's to go through entire police case files to check to make sure all their i's were dotted and t's crossed....and believe me...if things are found that will discredit a witness or maybe bring how an officer did his job in question....that atty will pounce on it....
    So you can be sure, the same could be said if a PI was not up to par with his investigation....that atty is probably gonna come down on you like a ton of bricks

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    I’m not sure weather I am allowed to talk about this case I served as jury on but I t

    In Rhode Island last year I served on a jury for a case involving a local private investigator. A former client took a local private investigator to court. The charges where that the private investigator did not render any results from the investigation and charged a large amount of money.

    The Investigators final report included 14 pages of hourly surveillance logs, hourly photo logs, hours of filmed footage, and mobile surveillance logs. The client stated that the $5000 retainer should have paid for their services in full. The investigator at that time was paid $75 an hr for the hours of 7am-11pm, $0.35 per mile, tame and a half for any time after 11pm-7am, weekends, state and federal holidays. They also included all expenses pertaining to the case. The final bill came some where around $13000 for the time mileage and the agents working the case.

    The lawyer for the plaintiff stated that the total amount charges where trumped up fully by the investigators. They also stated that the client never approved of the traveling expenses to three different states via business class air and the hotel fees. After three days of the plaintiff’s lawyer going on about all of the charges, accusations and name-calling.

    The lawyers for the defense took their turn. They brought in a television and a vcr. They then proceeded to play a tape of the first meeting with the client. In the meeting the client was informed of the camera and stated that he did not care about being recorded and began telling the investigator that money was no object and that what ever had to be done was to be done. The investigator went over everything with the client, as he took notes and repeated things the client stated for clarity or asked questions. After the client finished explaining their story and what they wanted done the investigator went over everything slowly and explained how some of what was wanted would cost a lot of money. The client stated again that the fees would not be a problem. The investigator then went over the contract and his fees with the client as they adjusted it for what the client wanted. Once the client finished reading the contract over, the investigator asked the client to speak into the camera his full name, date of birth, address and phone number. He was then asked if the contract suited his needs. The client then stated that it fully met his needs and than signed the contract.

    They next played a group of tape recordings of a phone calls with the client as they added more things on and accepted the additional charges. One tape was of a phone call from the investigator to the client explaining how high the bill was getting and that the client was either going to have to end the investigation or come up with at least half of the currently accrued cost after the retainer. That cost was $7000. The client then agreed to pay with their credit card and the transaction took place. The final tape was of the client asking to end the investigation and asking for a report. The report was submitted to the client along with the bill for the remaining cost of $6000.

    The defense lawyer then submitted a bounded check made out to the investigator for the balance, and recordings of the collection agency’s repeated conversation with the client.

    After the defense’s two days we where sent to deliberate. We had out verdict with in a record time. The investigator was found innocent of any wrongdoing. The judge then informed the client that he was to pay the investigator a pretty hefty sum for the trouble he caused. I believe that he was also required to pay the remaining costs as well.

  21. #21
    Gary Leineweber -'s Avatar
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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    Hi Charlaine,

    WOW.....AWESOME job by that PI......KUDO'S to him for covering his "you know what"

    Brings this ol PI some food for thought on maybe doing something like this (video) for one of my next big retainers....will have to bring this up with the boss, next time we have a sit down.

    Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention...I'm sure other members will benefit from this post as well

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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    I'm glad that it helped

    When I decided to follow my childhood dream of becoming a pi I thought about this case. It was because of this case that I decided that would record all of my meeting nomater the retainer size and record all my phone calls with clients. In my state you can cut the corrupption with a knife at times so anything to cover my backside will help.

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    Re: Private Investigator raked over the coals by an attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Cannon II
    raked over a coal, in missouri to find the place takes skill in it self, streets are split so one part may be over here the one you want over there somewhere but its there & I mean may be across townbut its the same street, flip happens, must be tough being a lawyer
    Hi Harold -
    I had to remove the name of the city you live in. This is to protect your safety and that of other members.

    Thank you for your understanding.

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