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Thread: PI "Rights"?

  1. #1
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    Question P.i Rights

    I was curious to know, can a P.I. carry a weapon if he/she is certified? I'm concerned about the safety.

    What if you encounter someone you are performing a survellance on, and attempts to creat bodily injury with a weapon. I'd like to have some kind of protection.

  2. #2
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    Bobby,

    You would have to see if your state has a concealed weapons law, if they do, you can apply for a permit to carry. Just being certified as a PI does not give you the right (I belive) to carry or conceal a weapon, you would have to obtain a concealed weapons permit in your state.

    Reminder: If you obtain a permit to carry in your state, this does not mean you can carry in all the other states, you must check each states law before carrying in other states.

    If I am not correct with any of the above, would someone please correct me?

    Good luck,

    __________________________

    Frank Shields

  3. #3

    Good Job Frank

    Your statement was correct. A conceal weapon permit is according to state. Please check with the state which you choose to carry a conceal weapon.

    Clinton

  4. #4
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    Just to add to the statents above In Georgia it also depends on the Firm that you're working for.. Alot of firms will not allow you to carry while on a case for them. So just because you have a permit you not only need to check with that state your in, but you alos need to know the POLICY for the company you made start working for....

    SAVAGE
    the daytime may be yours, BUT THE NIGHT BELONGS TO ME

    SAVAGE

  5. #5

    Good Stuff Savage!

    Savage,

    With the work you were involved in did you have to carry. I think if I get into your kind of work I would want to carry. I don't know if its a good question to ask an active Bounty Hunter or someone in the recovery business if they carry but just the same, what are your thoughts.

    I would like to tap your knowledge every now and then on this subject matter. Only if thats okay with you of course. We here at IPIU tend to give information freely. I think for the most part we are all honest as well. That makes a good learning situation so I want to learn as much as I can.

    I have had some training in the field of weapons and I have taken some courses in security so I have a little knowledge to pass on. I only share what I know or can reference.

    Thanks for your help.
    Clinton

  6. #6
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    Thanks to all who replied!

    Kevin Savage, thankyou for your feedback. I do know in San Francisco, it's very difficult to get approved for a CCW PERMIT.

    If i'm not mistaken, a few years back the city of San Francisco
    only approved one person. WOW!

  7. #7
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    Thumbs up

    Clinton,
    I don't know to many Bounty Hunters, but the ones that I do know CARRY. I've done the work before and there is no way I'd do the work of searching for a person that does not want to be found or that has jump bail wthout a weapon. I also have been trained in many weapons being a retired officer from Michigan. And i'm always at the gun range keeping my skill level up. I don't mind anybody picking my brains for any knowledge that may help them. I'm learing that this fourm versus others really does try and help answer any and all questions put to it.
    I'm also going to add you to my buddy list on here, so feel free to drop me a line any time.. And as always to you and everyone on IPIU GOOD LUCK.


    SAVAGE
    the daytime may be yours, BUT THE NIGHT BELONGS TO ME

    SAVAGE

  8. #8
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    Also of note: some states honor reciprocity in regards to CCWs issued from other states. Often, a state will require that you take a course in firearm safety (ususally completed in a weekend).
    Getting a CCW in certain states/cities can be almost impossible (New York, LA in particular). The only way to get one in these situations is to either know somebody at city hall or prove to a judge that you would need a weapon in your line of work. Ususally, that refers to people who carry money or valuables on a regular basis.
    Check your local laws, but in some states you can carry a weapon as long as it is not concealed. You may not be particularly inconspicuous walking around with a gun on your hip, but if you must have something, that would be better than nothing. Please note that these states are few and far between and within the state, there may be certain restrictions as to where you can carry, i.e., within certain city limits and I know of no situation where you can carry a fiream into a bar, even if you have a CCW.
    Something else to consider: Rarely would a private citizen need to use a gun. In fact, many police officers go their entire career without even drawing their firearm outside of the shooting range. The chances for a civilian to draw a weapon are slim to none.
    Also, if you have a gun and you decide to draw it, are you prepared to take a human life? If you draw a weapon, that is exactly what you need to do. Period. Until you come to terms with that fact, as well as the consequences of your actions, DO NOT CARRY, OWN, OR EVEN CONSIDER A GUN. Too often people get a false sense of security by purchasing and carrying a weapon, never realizing that the bad guy may take it away and use it on the person.
    Draw and shoot. Shoot to kill. Train with a professional who has had to use deadly force. Know your rights and the law of the land.
    I did not mean to editorialize so much. I guess I got on a roll. The bottom line is that 1) you need to check the specific laws in your area and 2) you need to know what you're doing when taking extreme measures. Do you really need a gun, or do you just want to feel a little more secure? If you're not willing to do some research, some training, and some serious soul searching, buy some pepper spray.

  9. #9
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    Patrick,

    I would have to agree to ever thing that you said. Not to go into my personal life I do feel hat you have no busy carrying a gun if you 1) Have not trained with that weapon 2) You are carying that weapon to just feel like a TOUGH PERSON and 3) ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THAT PERSONS LIFE THAT YOU PULLED THAT WEAPON ON.. Take it from me it's not like the MOVIES

    SAVAGE
    the daytime may be yours, BUT THE NIGHT BELONGS TO ME

    SAVAGE

  10. #10
    Tina M Phillips Guest
    I just wanted to comment. I know that you do have to be approved or trained to carry a concealed weapon and of course not for every assignment you may have.

    I personally do not want to be involved in assignments where I need to have one. I commented on this on another thread I read.

    Thanks for the thread. It confirms what I read before.

  11. #11
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    In PA a concealed carry permit entitles you to carry as a private citizen only. If you want to carry as a Private Investigator you must be Act 235 certified in addition to your PI licensing requirements. Act 235 is a certification course given to applicants for Security Guard positions. A portion of this course includes firearms training and qualification.

    If you are a recently retired municipal or state police officer you can get both the classroom and firearms training waived and obtain the Act 235 certification. Retired federal investigator experience is recognized for the firearms portion only you must take the classroom security training.

    I recently went through this process. The real kicker is when you apply for liability insurance and tell them you will be carrying a firearm as a PI. Make sure you are sitting down when they quote you the premium.

    Ray Oros

  12. #12
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    Hi all,

    Originally posted by Tina M Phillips
    I just wanted to comment. I know that you do have to be approved or trained to carry a concealed weapon and of course not for every assignment you may have.

    I personally do not want to be involved in assignments where I need to have one. I commented on this on another thread I read.

    Thanks for the thread. It confirms what I read before.
    I'm with Tina, I don't want any thing to do with guns if I can help it. When I think about it, the first thing that goes through my mind is a story about child shooting himself on accident a few years back. I have two great girls and they are very curious, and even if I hide the gun they might find it. No way do I want a gun around.
    Sandy

  13. #13
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    Re: Hi all,

    Originally posted by Sandra Whitehall


    I'm with Tina, I don't want any thing to do with guns if I can help it. When I think about it, the first thing that goes through my mind is a story about child shooting himself on accident a few years back. I have two great girls and they are very curious, and even if I hide the gun they might find it. No way do I want a gun around.
    While it is certainly an individuals choice whether to own and/or carry a firearm, when handled responsibly there is no more danger to your children then for you to own an automobile. Responsible gun ownership first and foremost means proper handling and storage. Would you leave the keys in your car with your children in the driver seat? Of course not. The same should be true of owning firearms. They should be locked away completely in an approved safe and not just "hidden".
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  14. #14
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    Re: Re: Hi all,

    Originally posted by Keith Carter


    While it is certainly an individuals choice whether to own and/or carry a firearm, when handled responsibly there is no more danger to your children then for you to own an automobile. Responsible gun ownership first and foremost means proper handling and storage. Would you leave the keys in your car with your children in the driver seat? Of course not. The same should be true of owning firearms. They should be locked away completely in an approved safe and not just "hidden".
    It's weird how times change. I remember growing up that I know there was always a gun in the house as a kid and know where they were kept.. But did I touch it. HELL NO, knew better. But that was the way I was raised. Things just change with time and generations.

    SAVAGE
    the daytime may be yours, BUT THE NIGHT BELONGS TO ME

    SAVAGE

  15. #15
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    Well put Kevin! I was raised with many firearms in the home. I knew where they were and was trained in the responsible handling of those guns. I was also trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE! However as you pointed out, this is a different time. Of course I was also raised not to play with the kitchen knives nor to drink the poisonous substances around the home. My children are all very well versed in proper handling of my various firearms. They all know where they are kept and would never touch them. They are however always completely secured away from their access and from the access of anyone else entering my home. Even if we only consider the liability aspect alone, it is indeed a different world.

    Of course I also live in the 'Peoples Republic of California'.
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  16. #16
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    Hi all,

    I am in the process of purchasing a weapon, because I will need it in my level 3 class I am about to go in. I went looking at guns yesterday and found out that in Calif. you first have to take a handgun safety test and pass with a 75%, then you will get a handgun safety certificate, then you can purchase a gun. I am not sure if that covers having a concealed weapon on you, but soon I will have those answers and I will let you know...
    melanie

  17. #17
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    lol...I pushed the wrong button before I finished that.....Hope that information helps some...As I get more information I will pass it along...
    melanie

  18. #18
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    Hi Melanie,

    I just finished purchasing my fist new handgun here in CA in about the last ten years. I was not aware of the HSC since it went into effect 1/03. I took it cold and got 30/30. It is so remedial that I actually think it should be 100% or you fail. I am quite sure that if you are able to find this site, log on and read any of the posts, you are more then savvy enough to pass.
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  19. #19
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    Ok my turn now Melanie.

    I didn't catch your second post. No, the HSC in no way entitles you to concealed carry. The only thing that the test does is give $25 (as of 1/04 it was $20 before) to the politicians and forces you to prove you have a minute amount of common sense.
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  20. #20
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    Hi keith,

    This will be my first handgun...I have been leery about having one in the pass, because of my son...But I found a gun they have now that when you pull out the magazine there a safety lock that prevents you to pull the trigger, so even with a bullet in the chamber it makes it safe. On top of that I think I will get a safe for it to be in. My son is 13 now and still doesnt know the meaning of no or dont touch and he has always been curious about guns, so I have to take the extra precautions...As for the HSC book, I am reading it this week, so far it sounds like common sense. Would like to talk more to you thou regarding this....Thanks...
    melanie

  21. #21
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    Melanie,

    In order to purchase your handgun you will need at the very least a cable lock to incapacitate the firearm at the time of purchase. If you have a CA Department of Justice approved safe, you can give the make and model instead. If the weapon you have been looking at is truly comfortable for you to handle and shoot, then go for it. If not, please do not let some simple safety 'trinket' mechanism cause you to buy a handgun that you will not be comfortable (read safe for those around you in the future) with. The most important safety on any firearm, whether it be a handgun or a rifle, is between your ears. Never, ever trust any mechanical means from any manufacturer to keep your son, yourself or anyone else safe.

    I would reccomend you first take some safety and handling courses before you consider a handgun. You will be more comfortable and far more educated when shopping. You can make your own decision instead of relying on the salesman at 'Joe Bob's' sporting goods who is looking for a commission.

    To jump on a soapbox for a second.. Anytime you handle a firearm, it is always loaded and the safety is always off. If a person allows themselves to trust otherwise, the chance of hurting themselves or another goes up exponentially.
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  22. #22
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    HI all,

    I have to say that I have a very different perspective about guns, and you all made some very good points that I really never considered before, thank you so much. I could find a way to use safety precausions and locks.
    Have a great day.
    Sandy

  23. #23
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    your welcome sandra...
    keith, thank you for getting back on this so quick...i like what you have to say and your ideas hope you dont mind me adding you to my buddy list...you know i didnt know you can have a safe approved by the justice dept. and your right about getting educated first...i talked to my instructor the other day and he did say i should wait till class starts, there will be someone talking to us about handguns and will be giving other information, so it sounds like that will be my best bet...its funny that you brought that up about the salesman trying to get their money...my husband went with me since i dont know a thing about guns and the salesman showed me a revolver and an automatic, both were $499 and when we left my husband told me he saw a couple offbrand names that were $150....what a big difference for just a name,lol...but of course the guy only showed me the ones that cost more..
    melanie

  24. #24
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    Melanie,

    You are quite welcome. There is one thing I feel the need to point out. Some here might chastise me but I hope not. Please, please and again, PLEASE! Do not buy a weapon solely on price. There are way too many sub standard weapons out there. While by no stretch of the imagination is it needed to buy the most expensive weapon produced, by the same token buying the budget weapon can endanger you and yours. There are so many weapons produced today that in real world use, are a lot of fun but not reliable. All of my current weapons at this time have had hundreds of rounds fired through them without one mis-fire. The same cannot be said of many budget brands. I just yesterday took my brand new Desert Eagle .45 acp to the range and shot 400 rounds through it. Not one mis-fire.

    If you search the internet, you will find many message boards that talk about handguns. You can read reviews from hundreds of different people about a given handgun rather then rely on a salesman that says, "hell yeah this is the one".

    I just really hate to see people make uninformed choices when it comes to something as important and personal as a handgun.
    "Nothing is ever easy... "
    Keith Carter

  25. #25
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    Hi Keith,

    Thank you, I really do appreciate your imput, it makes me think...
    What do you do by the way....I see you haven't been a member here very long...I wasn't sure if you were a licensed PI, cop, or if you did something else.
    Off the subject, but has it been nice the last couple days everywhere in Calif. Of course, its cold right now, but the days have been just right.
    melanie

  26. #26
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    Although this topic is for PI Rights, we have another topic for weapons and concealed hand guns.

    Go here:
    http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthrea...&threadid=9889
    Lance Jefferson
    Trainer - Private Investigators Union



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  27. #27
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    Arrow There are other options.

    If your not sure a firearm is right for you, there are other options. Unlike my self, my employer requires firearms training and cert. for some of their accounts, but that isn't the only tool at my disposal.


    I've been in Security for a few years now and I'm currently enrolled in a firearms course with 16 hours in. My employer is covering all fees generated including License.


    I must admit that my years in the field covering a broad range of accounts from crowd control/special events, corporate, escorts, patrol, bars/nightclubs, hotels and undercover work. I've never had a situation that couldn't be handled with my baton, OC spray, verbal commands, physical training or even my flash light. Yeah, thats right my flash light. Theres nothing like making your subject go blind before the compliance hold and smaking on the cuffs.


    But, your mere presence as an Officer isn't always enough. Just the sight of a Glock sidearm is reason enough to a suspect to think twice about the fact that your just a security officer. I hope I never have to use deadly force. So far I've used other successful options to control situations.


    Stay Safe!
    Nelson W. Lunsford

  28. #28
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    I have heard so much great information here. I have 22 years of weapons handling and training in the military. I have had a concealed weapons permit since I retired from the military in 1989. I go to the range monthly. I believe that safety, training(classroom and range) and proper storeage are so important. Get the training before you purchase a weapon it could save you life and/ or someone else's life.

    Joe Krause

  29. #29
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    Exclamation Slow Down & Think

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Barrun
    I was curious to know, can a P.I. carry a weapon if he/she is certified? I'm concerned about the safety.

    What if you encounter someone you are performing a survellance on, and attempts to creat bodily injury with a weapon. I'd like to have some kind of protection.
    Here is a link to the thread that will answer in depth --- this question about firearms, and the decision to carry a firearm. Please read what Jim Lyons has to say on this subject, it is extremely important and will address questions beyond rights that you & anyone else needs to ask yourself in regard to possessing a firearm.

    I would also like to point out that the possession of a firearm in the hands of one who is not prepared---can amount to your providing a weapon for someone---who is prepared to use it---against you! Please read through this forum for more information.
    http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?t=14061

    Additionally you better be prepared to face charges for injuring or worse yet killing another human being with a firearm. If Police Officers are not immune to investigation, for firing a gun at a suspect what do you suppose your chances will be in a courtroom? You better know some basic first aid because you can not just leave someone on the ground bleeding after you have shot them. Think, Think, Think, and then THINK some more about all the consequences of such a responsibility.

    You may be the one who in the end does time in jail for breaking the laws, it is the same laws that will allow you a firearm, but also will hold you accountable for what you do with it.

    It is my opinion trainees are putting the cart out before the horse is attached, in thinking way ahead, unless you happen to already have a law enforcement or military background.

    Get your basic training down, I could be wrong but I severely doubt that a P.I. agency will be hiring inexperienced trainees and giving them assignments of peril, much less wanting them to have a carry permit. Just my opinion. When I first arrived here at IPIU I initially started thinking way ahead of myself. I realized in a short time that I needed to slow down and get a grasp on the basics. I'm still grasping, and I uncover more information every day. I have loads of time on my hands simply because I'm not currently employed. I still find surprises everywhere on these forums, even on Level 1, which I have surpassed, but I still go back and re-read, finding things I missed the first time.
    S
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    Last edited by Dabra J Grant -; 05-14-2004 at 01:52 PM. Reason: correct typo
    Dabra J Grant "DJ"
    "Knowledge is Power." Francis Bacon

  30. #30
    Petra Post -'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabra J Grant
    I still find surprises everywhere on these forums, even on Level 1, which I have surpassed, but I still go back and re-read, finding things I missed the first time.
    S
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    Way to Go, Dabra,
    I believe you are so right... I see that some of our PI trainee friends on this thread have had some major training in gun wear and use... I would still be careful though... I, myself, have mixed feelings on wearing one concealed or not... my husband wants to see me safe and told me already that we will go practice... well, until then, we'll wait... I have to be sure of it myself before I take a major step like that.

    So, Dabra, you are at level 2, I understand?? I am right behind you

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Post
    Way to Go, Dabra,
    I believe you are so right... I see that some of our PI trainee friends on this thread have had some major training in gun wear and use... I would still be careful though... I, myself, have mixed feelings on wearing one concealed or not... my husband wants to see me safe and told me already that we will go practice... well, until then, we'll wait... I have to be sure of it myself before I take a major step like that.

    So, Dabra, you are at level 2, I understand?? I am right behind you
    Hey Petra,

    Fancy meeting you here! I'm at level three, just got my training manual & test, and I find that just having read so much here on the forums, has given me the answers to quite a few of the test questions.

    I was trained by the best as far as gun safety, cleaning, weapon choice etc. The most important thing about having a firearm is that you unfailingly acknowledge that" THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNLOADED WEAPON.

    Other than that the problem with handling a firearm and practicing is this: When you are in danger and under stress, fearful, etc. your ability to fire a gun is only as good as your ability to compensate for your hands shaking, your adrenaline, and all the accompanying things that happen when you are in a bad situation. The key is to prevent yourself from being in a bad situation by doing your homework ahead of time.

    People forget that firing a weapon at a firing range under the best circumstances, and with hearing protection on, has relatively little to do with your ability to do the same when in danger, alone, and against someone who is not made of paper, and who may have decided to fight instead of take flight.

    I recommend that anyone who has a firearm, be able to load and unload their weapon blindfolded, so that you know your weapon like the back of your hand.

    That is my two cents for what it is worth. I have never owned a hand gun, I don't care for them. I have two hunting rifles, and the only way I'd even consider using them against a human being is if my life were in danger. The law is very clear about what constitutes lawful use of a firearm, even in self-defense, but because of our constitutional rights we are allowed to arm ourselves, which is good. As I said how we use that power is up to us and we will answer and be accountable.

    My rifles are under lock and key. I have other means of protecting myself, and I don't live anymore in the middle of nowhere needing to keep a 12 gauge as a sleeping partner.

    Where I moved from was so remote that the only Police were the State Troopers and the Sheriff. In a good scenario when they happened to be in my neck of the woods, it would take a minimum of 45 minutes for them to answer a distress call.

    I was at all times ready and able to defend myself, and have always had a good canine companion to alert me to danger, that I may have just slept through, otherwise.

    "See" you around Petra!

  32. #32
    Petra Post -'s Avatar
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    wow, again...
    when did you make level 3? I must have missed you at 2...lol... I believe that I am still level 1... hmmm... so much for that... that means you are at a "better" place now, my friend... Can't wait
    well... congrats to you and I will definitely be there one day soon

  33. #33
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    I do have question that how much money I do owe. I have just received reply from you that unsufficient fund. Would you please reply me on my e-mail address

    I do appreciate it. As you have received other documents please reply.

    Prem K. Prasad

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Prem Prasad
    I do have question that how much money I do owe. I have just received reply from you that unsufficient fund. Would you please reply me on my e-mail address

    I do appreciate it. As you have received other documents please reply.

    Prem K. Prasad
    Prem;
    I suggest you send a private e-mail to support when you have questions about payments.

  35. #35
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    I'm looking into alternate forms of self-defense. Many a villain will shriek in horror at the sight of me wielding a large mouth bass with reckless abandon.

    "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" -Inquisitor #1

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Mabbitt
    I'm looking into alternate forms of self-defense. Many a villain will shriek in horror at the sight of me wielding a large mouth bass with reckless abandon.

    "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" -Inquisitor #1
    Ryan,
    I'll "work" with you anytime

  37. #37
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    who can you call about applying for a concealment lic.? forgive me if it was already answered.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by William Wells
    who can you call about applying for a concealment lic.? forgive me if it was already answered.
    William;
    I assume you're refering to a concealed carry license for a weapon? That is all handled by your State licensing agency. Call the State police for further information.

  39. #39
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    thanks fritz for the info ill call the md state police today on that.

  40. #40
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    I think it all comes down to this:

    Can you? (Can you take the life of another person?)

    If the answer is NO or I don't no - then do NOT carry a weapon.

    Are you financially set? (Do you have enough money to pay medical bills and law suits for the guy/gal you just shot and now they are mamed laying up in a hospital for life?)

    If the answer is NO or I don't no - then do NOT carry a weapon.

    These are the questions that MUST be answered. Please do NOT carry a gun to be cool or carry a gun for safety reasons unless you really intend and will use if necessary.

    Coming from a LE and Military background I have seen the owners of a gun dead or severly wounded because they did not ACT. ACT meaning they were faced with a situation and failed to COMPLETE the process.

    It boils down to what you think YOU are capable of doing!
    "Keep On Keepin On!"

    Steve McAtee
    Badge# 10053

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