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Thread: PI "Rights"?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McAtee
    I think it all comes down to this:

    Can you? (Can you take the life of another person?)

    If the answer is NO or I don't no - then do NOT carry a weapon.

    Are you financially set? (Do you have enough money to pay medical bills and law suits for the guy/gal you just shot and now they are mamed laying up in a hospital for life?)

    If the answer is NO or I don't no - then do NOT carry a weapon.

    These are the questions that MUST be answered. Please do NOT carry a gun to be cool or carry a gun for safety reasons unless you really intend and will use if necessary.

    Coming from a LE and Military background I have seen the owners of a gun dead or severly wounded because they did not ACT. ACT meaning they were faced with a situation and failed to COMPLETE the process.

    It boils down to what you think YOU are capable of doing!
    Great advice, Steve! I think I will be one of those who do not carry one.

    Brenda Templin
    "The climb to the top is arduous and long. People become exhausted, frustrated,
    and disenchanted. They often are tempted to give up. Leaders must encourage
    the heart of their followers to carry on." .....by Kouzes and Posner

  2. #42
    David Martz - is offline Licensed Private Investigator

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    Dear Group,
    I would like to make a comment to all the members that do not wish to carry a sidearm. there are services in the PI field that never require you to be armed, A PI's main job is to gather information only no need for a sidearm at all. Yes my company does work that requires a sidearm(Work Place Violence, Fugitive Recovery,Body Guards,and some security positions. I have 2 investigators that have never worn a sidearm in 20yrs. It depends on what you what to cover with your Agency. Be it known that you could be paying as much as 16000.00 dollars a year for your team to be covered under Insurance to carry a sidearm.

    Regards

  3. #43
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    I think Steve hit it dead on with the two questions: "Can you?" and "Are you financially set?" I think a lot of people thinking about getting a concealed weapons permit don't even think about asking themselves the second question. If, by any chance, you ended up having to use your weapon on a person, you definitely would be wishing you had asked yourself that question.

    Angela

  4. #44
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    As a female who carries a concealed weapon for my day job, here are some considerations I always offer to friends who are considering getting their pistol permit.

    1) Take a good training course so you become VERY comfortable with your weapon. Take this before you purchase, so you can experience the recommendations of your trainer. They will usually have different makes and calibers of guns you can try. You should consider purchasing the largest caliber you are comfortable and proficient with.

    2) A good training course will have a good bit of weapon retention in it. I think the odds are something like 80% of the time if someone gets your gun away from you, you will get shot with your own gun. It is possible to actually be your own worst enemy with a gun.

    3) As a female, we have special "clothing problems" that guys don't have. Women's pants are generally not made with belt loops that properly support a good quality gun belt and holster. And the loops are often too narrow. And for gosh sakes, make sure you have a high quality leather belt. Not one of those thin and flimsy dress belts. In retention training I had a male co-worker pick me up by my holster ( yes, I retained my weapon) and blew a few loops off a pair of Carhart Jeans. We females are generally smaller. In a scuffle where anything goes, we have to be prepared!

    I have found men' s pants or low rise pants are more comfortable as it puts the gun lower and does not dig into my hip bone and the top does not poke me in the ribs. (Are you getting the picture of it's difficult to dress up and be comfortable for any lenght of time?)

    4) Shoulder holsters are definitely an option, but in retention training I have found it is harder to retain your weapon. We females don't have the upper body strength males do. Depending on the size gun you choose, a shoulder holster may make it harder to conceal, and a heavy gun may make your back tired.

    5) Keep your gun on your person, not in your purse! It would be terrible if your purse got stolen with your gun in it (not to mention embarrassing).

    6) Not every day is a "gun day". You have to study what your state statute says for when it is okay to use lethal force. It would be very bad to shoot someone when the situation could have been controlled with pepper spray or just retreating.

    7) Body armour. If you are considering buying a vest make sure it will at least stop bullets from your gun. Also, make sure it is tailored for a woman and really fits you. They are easier to conceal if they fit well.

    Best wishes,
    Amy Groot

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Groot
    As a female who carries a concealed weapon for my day job, here are some considerations I always offer to friends who are considering getting their pistol permit.

    1) Take a good training course so you become VERY comfortable with your weapon. Take this before you purchase, so you can experience the recommendations of your trainer. They will usually have different makes and calibers of guns you can try. You should consider purchasing the largest caliber you are comfortable and proficient with.

    2) A good training course will have a good bit of weapon retention in it. I think the odds are something like 80% of the time if someone gets your gun away from you, you will get shot with your own gun. It is possible to actually be your own worst enemy with a gun.

    3) As a female, we have special "clothing problems" that guys don't have. Women's pants are generally not made with belt loops that properly support a good quality gun belt and holster. And the loops are often too narrow. And for gosh sakes, make sure you have a high quality leather belt. Not one of those thin and flimsy dress belts. In retention training I had a male co-worker pick me up by my holster ( yes, I retained my weapon) and blew a few loops off a pair of Carhart Jeans. We females are generally smaller. In a scuffle where anything goes, we have to be prepared!

    I have found men' s pants or low rise pants are more comfortable as it puts the gun lower and does not dig into my hip bone and the top does not poke me in the ribs. (Are you getting the picture of it's difficult to dress up and be comfortable for any lenght of time?)

    4) Shoulder holsters are definitely an option, but in retention training I have found it is harder to retain your weapon. We females don't have the upper body strength males do. Depending on the size gun you choose, a shoulder holster may make it harder to conceal, and a heavy gun may make your back tired.

    5) Keep your gun on your person, not in your purse! It would be terrible if your purse got stolen with your gun in it (not to mention embarrassing).

    6) Not every day is a "gun day". You have to study what your state statute says for when it is okay to use lethal force. It would be very bad to shoot someone when the situation could have been controlled with pepper spray or just retreating.

    7) Body armour. If you are considering buying a vest make sure it will at least stop bullets from your gun. Also, make sure it is tailored for a woman and really fits you. They are easier to conceal if they fit well.

    Best wishes,
    Amy Groot
    Thanks, Amy. Those are all very valid points you've brought up. I'll continue my "preaching" on just not carrying . I think anyone who has had to carry for any period of time will choose that route as well.

  6. #46
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    Thanks for the insight Amy! As the daughter and the niece of officers, and having been raised around guns and gun safety all of my life; I completely agree with your "take" on the matter.

    Shelley

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Martz
    Dear Group,
    I would like to make a comment to all the members that do not wish to carry a sidearm. there are services in the PI field that never require you to be armed, A PI's main job is to gather information only no need for a sidearm at all. Yes my company does work that requires a sidearm(Work Place Violence, Fugitive Recovery,Body Guards,and some security positions. I have 2 investigators that have never worn a sidearm in 20yrs. It depends on what you what to cover with your Agency. Be it known that you could be paying as much as 16000.00 dollars a year for your team to be covered under Insurance to carry a sidearm.

    Regards
    Thanks, David for sharing your experience with us; and thanks for putting a number to the insurance costs.

  8. #48
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    I have to agree with those who would prefer not to take assignments requiring carrying a sidearm. There are plenty of areas that wouldn't require it. With a wife & kids, I don't want to get into that kind of situation anyway. I would also prefer something like pepper spray or some other non-lethal weapon, if necessary.

  9. #49
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    I have carried a firearm for most of my life, military, police officer, body guard, and as a PI. Some people are comfortable with them and some people are not, but it is still up to your employer whether or not you go armed.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert A Smith
    I have to agree with those who would prefer not to take assignments requiring carrying a sidearm. There are plenty of areas that wouldn't require it. With a wife & kids, I don't want to get into that kind of situation anyway. I would also prefer something like pepper spray or some other non-lethal weapon, if necessary.
    Easy with the pepper spray, Robert. It's not so simple dealing with an upset (pepper-sprayed) individual

  11. #51
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    I grew up in a gun cultured family. I currently own about 9 pistols and have a concealed carry license. I did all this before getting involved in PI work. From my concealed carry class, I learned that you really dont want to shoot anyone. Avoid it at all costs. I will not take work that is so dangerous, it will require a firearm. Guess I'll leave that to the younger people. Firearms gurantee our right to personal freedom and protection of our homes and loved ones. But, dont go looking for trouble.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Budde
    Easy with the pepper spray, Robert. It's not so simple dealing with an upset (pepper-sprayed) individual
    Frederick,

    Yes, I know it really pisses someone off getting pepper sprayed - just was first thing that popped in my head as an example of a non-firearm protection. I'd rather just avoid it all together.

    Bob

  13. #53

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert A Smith
    Frederick,

    Yes, I know it really pisses someone off getting pepper sprayed - just was first thing that popped in my head as an example of a non-firearm protection. I'd rather just avoid it all together.

    Bob
    That's the right attitude, Robert. Having "carried" for many years, I realize the downside to being armed
    Have a great day, and good luck with your career.

  14. #54
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    I was just talking to my local sheriff the other day about this and he said pretty much what everyone else has said, check with your local law.. here in Ohio, you have to have a permit to carry

    Scott

  15. #55
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    Most states have the right to carry laws. I would perfer not to carry one, so pepper spray works for me. It is up to the individual and the agency.

    Thanks

  16. #56
    Wendy Bomar Guest
    I, too, would prefer not to "carry". But, if it means my safety and the safety of others I will "carry".
    I would much rather use other means before coming to that. I am more of a "talk through" kind of person. I also understand that there are people who will not be "willing" to talk throught the situation.
    Just go in with your eyes open. Be well educated and trained so that all parties involved are as safe as possible.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Budde
    That's the right attitude, Robert. Having "carried" for many years, I realize the downside to being armed
    Have a great day, and good luck with your career.
    Frederick,

    Thanks! I'm almost ready to send in my test results & availability sheet, so it won't be long now!

    Bob

  18. #58
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    Thanks To All,

    I would like to thank you all for your thoughts and experiences. There have been many great points made on both sides. Just reading these posts has definetly opened my eyes to many aspects of the issue that I had never even thought about. I think the best point made is find out all the facts and ask otheirs as well as yourself many important questions.

    Thanks Again,
    Clyde

  19. #59
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    Are You Really Prepared To Pull The Trigger?!!!!!!

    , I do not believe a gun is a must have. There are alternatives, such as a stun gun, mase, and pepper spray. I actually started taking (full contact) self defense classes. I just do not believe that a gun is the answer. If you can avoid it then I would say please do and think of some other alternatives. I am trained to shoot a gun. But, I do not choose to carry one, it is my absolute last option... Well just a thought to put out there. Make Positive choices and think about this choice throughly.......

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Groot
    As a female who carries a concealed weapon for my day job, here are some considerations I always offer to friends who are considering getting their pistol permit.

    1) Take a good training course so you become VERY comfortable with your weapon. Take this before you purchase, so you can experience the recommendations of your trainer. They will usually have different makes and calibers of guns you can try. You should consider purchasing the largest caliber you are comfortable and proficient with.

    2) A good training course will have a good bit of weapon retention in it. I think the odds are something like 80% of the time if someone gets your gun away from you, you will get shot with your own gun. It is possible to actually be your own worst enemy with a gun.

    3) As a female, we have special "clothing problems" that guys don't have. Women's pants are generally not made with belt loops that properly support a good quality gun belt and holster. And the loops are often too narrow. And for gosh sakes, make sure you have a high quality leather belt. Not one of those thin and flimsy dress belts. In retention training I had a male co-worker pick me up by my holster ( yes, I retained my weapon) and blew a few loops off a pair of Carhart Jeans. We females are generally smaller. In a scuffle where anything goes, we have to be prepared!

    I have found men' s pants or low rise pants are more comfortable as it puts the gun lower and does not dig into my hip bone and the top does not poke me in the ribs. (Are you getting the picture of it's difficult to dress up and be comfortable for any lenght of time?)

    4) Shoulder holsters are definitely an option, but in retention training I have found it is harder to retain your weapon. We females don't have the upper body strength males do. Depending on the size gun you choose, a shoulder holster may make it harder to conceal, and a heavy gun may make your back tired.

    5) Keep your gun on your person, not in your purse! It would be terrible if your purse got stolen with your gun in it (not to mention embarrassing).

    6) Not every day is a "gun day". You have to study what your state statute says for when it is okay to use lethal force. It would be very bad to shoot someone when the situation could have been controlled with pepper spray or just retreating.

    7) Body armour. If you are considering buying a vest make sure it will at least stop bullets from your gun. Also, make sure it is tailored for a woman and really fits you. They are easier to conceal if they fit well.

    Best wishes,
    Amy Groot
    Thanks Amy,

    I wanted to hear from a lady's point of view.

    You mentioned alot of my concerns like being comfortable.
    You mentioned that wearing low rise might be touching our hip bone? which could be true. You can put your gun in the back of your pants it might be flexible for movement.

    Now, what about being comfortable with body armor.
    I want to get a vest now. For protection.


    PI FPorter

  21. #61
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    As a Private Detective & a Marshal here in Indiana, I can tell you that the advice here is great. As a Police officer do to a federal law that Bush pushed through as of january this year a law enforcement officer can now carry a weapon in all states and towns where it is forbidden. It is nation wide regardless of local laws. A lot of states are recipical with border states, but not all. A person in Indiana can travel all the way to florida, all states that way to florida. I know there are about 12 states that do not except any handgun permits at all to c arry on your person. If you travel in those states you should put a trigger lock on your gun. store the shells not in reach of the handgun. Check with sporting goods stores or pawn shop for information to states that are recipical or not. If you have a temper or drink alot, don't carry a weapon at all. Even though you may have the right to carry one if you qualify, some people have no business carring a weapon at all. Always store your weapon in a safe place so children have no access to the weapon. Remember its your responsibility at all times, there are no good excuses for even a second of leaving a gun in the reach of a child. If you have a mental disorder or take lots of medication for depression or have been treated for such conditions you should not consider a handgun or any weapon to carry. Some states will not issue any permits to anyone who has been treated for mental illness or have been charged with a felony or drunk driving. Just a few tips I hope you will find useful and consider the end result. Carring a handgun is a priveledge not a right to carry one. It can be taken away after assaults have been commited or a protective order has been put on you, even a dui in some states. If you have a prior felony you will not get a handgun license in most states. If you buy a gun, practice, practice, practice. Train like you practice and practice like you train. Don't pull a gun, unless you intend to use it, or it can be used on you. At the same time, it does't mean you have to use it either. Here is Indiana if you pull a handgun on someone that is loaded and you don't have a handgun permit, its a felony. If its empty, its a misdemeanor. either case you could lose your P.I. License if its reported to the state.
    You cannot pull a gun because someone is going to kick your butt. Now if that person has a weapon of any type that can cause serious bodily injury, then he just stepped over the line. Some cases where a very small person was confronted with a very large person, were serious bodily injury is possible. It may be a good defense. Its always better to leave before an arguement can occur. If you are not allowed to leave and have tried too, that is always a good defense, but still does not give you the right to pull a weapon. If your not sure what to do, then just don't do it! Remember there is always at least 1 gun present, and thats the one you are carring. It can be used to save a life, or take a life. Sometimes you can even go to prison for what you think is right, but the jury feels that you are wrong. MAKE SURE YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE EITHER WAY.. I'm off the soapbox now.... Hope you listened... Be carefull no matter what you choose to do.... Herm

  22. #62
    Hugh Brown Jr's Avatar
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    In VA a person can have a permit to have a firearm on him.He must go though a training class on gun safety.Then he must pay $50.00 dollars to the court and he must stand in front of a judge.I was in security for many years and with my train as a armed security officer I could use this when I went before a judge so I could get my permit to have a gun on me on or of duty.If you retired from the Police department then you can get a life time weapons permit in VA.In VA it has strict that you must go by when you work in any field of Criminal Justice.I would advice you to really read the rule of the state.I say this because I had a guy in the firm that I worked for to get put in jail for this.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Barrun
    I was curious to know, can a P.I. carry a weapon if he/she is certified? I'm concerned about the safety.

    What if you encounter someone you are performing a survellance on, and attempts to creat bodily injury with a weapon. I'd like to have some kind of protection.

    Hello Bobby Barrun, I am a new member but feel that I should say a few things to your question.
    1.) I agree that you need to check with your sate.
    2.)Take all the safety classes you can, you can never have to much safety trainning.
    3.)Finally, I have recently returned from Iraq as an Infantry Soldier, and when you draw your weapon, it should be a last resort only to protect yourself or those in your care from injury or death. Takeing another life is something that will stay with you forever, so use sound judgement when you find yourself in that situation if ever.
    I hope that you find this usefull and take atleast the safety to heart as that is the most important part of carrying a weapon.

  24. #64
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    Thank you that is good to know.

  25. #65
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    Guns And Self-Defense

    Everyone has given good advice here. As someone whose trained with various firearms, I personally think that when you do have a concealed gun: you must act in situations as cautiously and wisely as you would if you did NOT have a gun. That way you do not take out a gun needlessly or recklessly.
    Also self-defense courses may be a good substitute for a gun in cases where the latter might not be necessary. Hence, survival involves comprehensive training and not just exclusive focus on one thing.

    Of course, there is still a such thing as gun-related self-defense and if there should ever come a time when its either "you or the other guy" you must be sure you can make the decision and pull the trigger. "Freezing-up" in fear will prevent the legitimate use of a gun for lawful self-defense... and you could end up in the grave---never mind a courtroom.

    Though I'm not advertising for them, some firearms magazines contain ads about places which offer realistic self-defense training. The more you train like real-life the better you can handle yourself in a real life scenario.

  26. #66
    even if you have a CWP, i heavily suggest you hek with your company as to its policies on having a weapon on the job. most agencies dont allow dor it, in respect though, when on a surveillence job most companies REQUIRE you to contact the local LE & let them know your car, plate, name & cell # , & connnecting streets of investigation, this allows them to assist you if the need arises. it is for YOUR PROTECTION! so dont forget to call the local LE!

  27. #67
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    I can't imagine anyone doing anythig different Goldie.

  28. #68
    hugh, you would be surprised, here in fl i met several that still carry while on the job even though co policy says they can term you for it.. but they dnt listen...

  29. #69
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    It all depends on your company policy or states rules. I use to work at a cite and the people were saying that they don't trust those people who carry.

  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Carter
    Well put Kevin! I was raised with many firearms in the home. I knew where they were and was trained in the responsible handling of those guns. I was also trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE! However as you pointed out, this is a different time. Of course I was also raised not to play with the kitchen knives nor to drink the poisonous substances around the home. My children are all very well versed in proper handling of my various firearms. They all know where they are kept and would never touch them. They are however always completely secured away from their access and from the access of anyone else entering my home. Even if we only consider the liability aspect alone, it is indeed a different world.

    Of course I also live in the 'Peoples Republic of California'.
    Right and to the point. It is a matter of respect for the weapon. Training and instruction in the proper handling techniques. Times may change, safety is, and always was a major concern.

  31. #71
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    Good evening everyone!

    Please to meet you all here in forum with the topic, "PI Rights".

    Well, in my own perception having or carrying a gun depend upon the criteria of your job assignment (as a PI within Law Enforcement/DOD) and the state law. However, it doesn't mean that you always "a license to kill" whenever it possible.

    I think as a regular PI and as authorized one by law, there's 4 weapon as best as you get. No killing involved at all, but to gather FACTS and or tell the true story (who; when; where; why; what & how) for justice or whatever that matters for investigations.

    Here are the 4-best weapon in the world:

    1. Healthy mind-brain
    2. Physically strong/active
    3. Whole bunch of paper (notebook)
    4. Pen/Pencil

    "As an old salt private investigator you have to provide a concrete REPORT! not a dead body on the table".

    Luz

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