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Thread: Followup to "Dog" Chapman Story

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    Followup to "Dog" Chapman Story

    AP-Associated Press
    Wednesday, Aug. 6, 2003

    http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/o...054505_01.html

    Bounty Hunter Denied $1M Bail Money

    VENTURA, Calif. (AP) - The bounty hunter who captured convicted rapist Andrew Luster in Mexico won't receive any of the $1 million bail the fugitive Max Factor heir forfeited when he vanished during his trial, a judge ruled.

    Bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman was not entitled to any share of the money because he was acting on his own and not as a legally authorized bail recovery agent when he snatched Luster off a street in Puerto Vallarta on June 18, Superior Court Judge Edward Brodie ruled Tuesday.

    "He went to Mexico and failed to comply with the law. I cannot condone vigilante justice," Brodie said of Chapman.

    The law requires that bounty hunters have a formal agreement with the bail bond agent or law enforcement, have a clean criminal record and follow local laws when they search for felons. Bounty hunting is considered a crime in Mexico.

    Chapman walked out of court as Brodie was speaking, but said afterward he respected the judge's decision.

    "There will be no appeal. There will be no hard feelings," he said. "We did talk to the district attorney before we entered the case and we thought we had his approval."

    Prosecutors said Luster, great-grandson of Hollywood makeup legend Max Factor, took three women to his home in 1996, 1997 and 2000 and raped them after drugging them with gamma hydroxybutyrate, also known as GHB - or the date-rape drug - and liquid Ecstasy.

    Luster fled Jan. 3, during a recess in his trial. Later in the month, he was found guilty in absentia and sentenced to 124 years in prison.

    After his capture in June, Luster was returned to the United States to begin serving his sentence.

    The judge awarded more than $150,000 to Ventura County government agencies for the costs they incurred trying to find Luster. Brodie also ruled Tuesday that Luster, and not his mother, put up the bail, a decision that clears the way for Luster's victims to lay claim to a portion.

    Brodie told attorneys for Luster's victims that the law caps victim restitution in criminal cases to a total of $10,000. He ordered the victims to meet with Probation Agency officials for restitution options.

    He also stayed his rulings for 60 days to allow all parties to appeal.

    Chapman, who boasts of being "the greatest bounty hunter in the world," had said he wanted $350,000 for capturing Luster.

    Chapman, his son and brother were charged by Mexican authorities with illegally capturing Luster. The three, who were arrested with the fugitive after passers-by reported a scuffle, returned to the United States after posting bail of their own.

    Chapman's attorney, Robert Sanger, said the bounty hunter faces only misdemeanor charges.

    2003-08-06 12:32:51 GMT


    Copyright 2003
    The Associated Press All Rights Reserved
    The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authorityof The Associated Press.

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    What Happened to the Initial Story?

    Good evening all,

    You may all recall the initial story shared here about the problems Duane "Dog" Chapman encountered when he captured this criminal in Mexico. I've been following the story off and on and thought you might interested in the latest update.

    This site has many great articles. If you've got the time, you could spend hours roaming around and catching up on the latest news.

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    Hi May,

    I just watched the movie concerning Andrew Luster on Lifetime, last night. I am glad he is caught and where he belongs.

    Too bad for Duane, that he is in jail. He had to have known that Mexico didn't allow bounty hunting.

    Have a great day,

    Deborah Siehl

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    You would have thought that Dog would have done everything by the book, especially with that kind of bond. If he would have quietly gone up to Luster and said come with me or else, instead of a big scene, he would have been in the clear.

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    This is a harsh reminder to always watch your step. I know he did not follow the rules. However, it seems like the good guy finished last.
    Tanya Wyche

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    May,

    Have to agree I'm glad Luster was returned to the U.S., but it's to bad that Chapman won't see any of the money. Of course all the publicity won't hurt his career.

  7. #7

    Paying for mistakes

    I am sympathetic to Duane. He put the bad guy in the right place. I have a feeling that it is not fair for him to get no benefit after his efforts, risks, and expenses. At the same time, I remember the latin proverb "Dura lex, sed lex" - "The law is tough, but...it's the law".

    If Duane did not know about the Mexican law (forbidding bounty hunting"), the action was poorly planned. If he knew about it, he should have avoid the "big scene". In this respect he should have follow the "script" of Mosad agents quietly kiddnaping Adolf Eichman in Argentina (1962), drugging him, and transporting him (as a drunken guy), via Buenos Aires Int'l Airport, to Israel, where the monster was brought to justice and sentenced. Sometimes, it is good to read History...

  8. #8
    William D Hatton Guest
    Drugging him? Our morals are simply better than that now-a-days. But he could have done something different. (monday quarterback)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragos Sfinteanu
    Mexican law (forbidding bounty hunting
    Dragos,
    My question is, why would Mexico want alien fugitives in their country and not permit bounty hunters the oppportunity to apprehend them. Obviously, their law enforcement system couldn't find or capture him. Forbidding bounty hunters, in their country makes me wonder what their laws were decided upon.
    Julie Mercer

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    I glad that they finally got the guy, but it is ashame that the Dog won't get any of the money. But it just goes to show you what money can do. I just wonder how many years he will actually serve and if he is in clud med. Just my 2 cents worth. I like the Dog, and wish him all the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Mercer
    Dragos,
    My question is, why would Mexico want alien fugitives in their country and not permit bounty hunters the oppportunity to apprehend them. Obviously, their law enforcement system couldn't find or capture him. Forbidding bounty hunters, in their country makes me wonder what their laws were decided upon.
    Julie Mercer

    I cannot agree more with this, Mexico is where everyone flee's ( that or Canada) I do not know if they (Canada) allow bounty hunters or not since I have not persued that avenue as of yet, but regardless, it makes one wonder as you stated, Julie, why a state or country would allow cons,theives, murderers,rapists, and the list can go on, in their territory and not permit justice to be done by gaining control of the suspect and seeing them tried and if found guilty committed, if not let go and c ya'. But then again, I dont think Mexico is all that high in ratings of the best places to be, so maybe that is the how and why of it, perhaps misery loves company?


    I do like the Dog, he is a wee bit rough at times. I did see this and wondered how in the heck he could NOT know Mexico's laws, before I even got into this area, I am and have been aware of laws of extradition, who will and who wont. Even though bounty hunting and extraditing are seperate areas, still have similiars) I do feel Dog should get something of the bounty, at least his expenses since he did see justice served, BUT I also think if that was allowed it would still set a bad preface for those new and way too wet behind the ears to collect bounties.

    just my 1/2 cent

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    I'm glad Luster was captured. I'm guessing Duane is at least satisfied the guy has received a huge sentence. Unfortunately Duane and his crew will get no money. They probably knew it was a gamble when they went down there. But they did receive something for their trouble- notoriety. More of us now know who he is and out of curiousity we are more likely to stay up late and watch his "Dog The Bounty Hunter" show on A & E. It was good publicity for him.
    Just my opinion.

    Amy Groot

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    It's all about researching the laws before hand, especially with that kind of money involved.

    Lori E. Copaus
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    I like Dog Chapman and I am happy that he has his own reality show. He knew the law I'm sure..he's a rebel that took a chance!!

    I hope that Mexico changes their laws and cooperates with the US in capturing criminals... I think it might help their economy. ( Call me an Idealist!)

    Just my opinion.

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    To All:

    I still like Dog. He is almost a hero. He has smoe great qualities that we should adopt.

    He certaiinly knows right from wrong.
    Michael E. Harris

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    I have one thing to say about this whole story. Make sure you know the law before hand, especially when it involves that kind of bail.

    Lori E. Copaus
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    Dog knew what he was doing and I applaud him. I would have done the same and would have tried not to get famous in the process. We haven't got caught yet and we have capture over 1,000 skips in the process. Knock on wood.

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    Mr. Walker,
    Excuse me if I am wrong, but being that you are an ex-FBI agent, aren't you sworn to uphold the law? But you are saying you would have done the same thing, which is Dog broke the law, whether he knew what it was or not. He should have investigated this before proceeding. I have traveled to Mexico several times and know for a fact that they enforce their own laws at their convenience.

    Lori E. Copaus
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    Lori, haven't you ever broken the law. You never got a speeding ticket, or maybe you just never got caught going over the limit. That's what I mean. Either way, if you got a ticket or not, going above the limit is a violation of the law. Since the Mexican officials enforce the laws at their convenience, I would have tried to slip in and slip out without getting caught, sought of like speeding and not getting a ticket. What I meant in my last posting was I would have not tried to get famous in the process like getting caught. If Dog would have gotten in and out, he would have been hailed as a hero. I am sure if Andrew Luster raped you or any of your relatives (Heaven forbid), you would want me to try to slip in and out. Dog tried and was not successful but I applaud him for the effort. Additionally, Mexican Law Enforcement Officials are also known to be corrupt. A few of my colleagues in the DEA have been killed by them. So if Dog did this by the book and conducted a surveillance of Luster with Mexican Law Enforcement approval, Dog could have been killed. Luster could easily have the Mexican Police in his pocket and that is why Dog had to slip in and try to
    slip out. My Agency has slipped in and out of so many countries successfully that I simply meant I would have tried too if my client was legit and the money was right. Dr. Walker.

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    Mr. Walker

    Yes, and I do apologize for that comment. I didn't mean for it to come out that it did. I think what I was trying to get across was that I wouldn't have written it so if later something came up, they could always say, well it's in writing. Do you understand what I am saying. It's like a situation I was in before with my husband, where he tried to kill me and the law did nothing about it. Then my thoughts are well in an unspeakable zone.
    I am also glad that we have several law enforcements on board, FBI, DEA, ATF, local police(ex officers of the law). We as citizens can learn alot from you all as far as how the law works. As far as being in Mexico, the last time I went by bus, I was returning and one of the officials tried to pull me off the bus because I didn't have a permit for coming from where I was coming, and I was told by him that he would escort me to the border himself. I argued for 15 minutes with him about the Border Patrol not doing their job in issuing me a permit and that was not my fault. I was lucky that day. I got to come home back on the bus. Safely and unharmed. I do speak fluent Spanish, and am not afraid to defend myself in anyway necessary.

    Lori E. Copaus
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    I do agree with you on the corruptness with the Mexican officials. I have heard stories from a couple of folks who have been in trouble with the Mexican authorities. I think it would be wise to avoid them at all cost, but if you believe you can out wit those folks, I give it a thumbs up.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Walker
    Lori, haven't you ever broken the law. You never got a speeding ticket, or maybe you just never got caught going over the limit. That's what I mean. Either way, if you got a ticket or not, going above the limit is a violation of the law. Since the Mexican officials enforce the laws at their convenience, I would have tried to slip in and slip out without getting caught, sought of like speeding and not getting a ticket. What I meant in my last posting was I would have not tried to get famous in the process like getting caught. If Dog would have gotten in and out, he would have been hailed as a hero. I am sure if Andrew Luster raped you or any of your relatives (Heaven forbid), you would want me to try to slip in and out. Dog tried and was not successful but I applaud him for the effort. Additionally, Mexican Law Enforcement Officials are also known to be corrupt. A few of my colleagues in the DEA have been killed by them. So if Dog did this by the book and conducted a surveillance of Luster with Mexican Law Enforcement approval, Dog could have been killed. Luster could easily have the Mexican Police in his pocket and that is why Dog had to slip in and try to
    slip out. My Agency has slipped in and out of so many countries successfully that I simply meant I would have tried too if my client was legit and the money was right. Dr. Walker.

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    As most, I too am glad that Luster is doing time (it should be in a pine box for the crimes he committed). I do however feel Dog seriously goofed in his attempts to bring Luster to justice. This is a business, and as such, you should follow certain guidelines. If you don't want to follow ethical and moral guidelines, at a minimum follow the law. Not only did Dog break Mexican law (always to be scrutinized for ulterior motive), but also placed his son and nephew at risk and in a bind. Understandably, you must take some chances and do things others would not, to get the job done. You must, however, do it in the proper manner. A special note, Dog lost the $1M bounty. That can't be good for the business. (Oh yeah, he got a TV show out of it!)

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    I am glad that DOG went over and captured the fugitive. Had it not been for DOG, the fugitive would still be out there. The Mexican authorities are too concern about returning stolen hats to visitors , instead of capturing a dangerous fugitive . As far as family goes, DOG takes pride in his family. He has mentioned numerous times that family sticks with family. This task was dangerous, but they did what true family would do. They stuck together until they got the job done. I wish DOG the best, because he has made a difference.

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    Phillip,

    I feel that you missed the point entirely. Dog did not go after Luster for the money, he went because it was the right thing to do.

    When is breaking the law and then hiding from the law (Luster) the high moral ground.

    Aside: Anything illegal is by definition unethical.

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    I agree with you Michael....

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    It's too bad that "dog' won't receive any compensation for returning a dangerous criminal to face justice, the rules are the rules no matter how crazy they may seem at times.

  27. #27
    I am new to the PI union, and I am very excited to learn more and get involved with all it has to offer. I watch Dog's shows every Tuesday with my 5 year old daughter, and we absolutly love him! I commend him for taking a chance and going to Mexico to capture this guy. I'm sure he did know about the laws there, but he does what he can to help his business and the community. As I've seen so many times, he has aprehended many people who have done majorly bad things, but in the end, he still tries to help that person become better.

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    I guess I've been living in a cave for the last couple of years because I haven't heard the story of Luster and the Dog. Anyway, I may be missing some of the key components of the story, but I was a little confused by the comment made about Dog capturing Luster because it was the right thing to do. If this was his reasoning, wouldn't he be satisfied with the fact that the guy was caught and not ask for the reward money for capturing him after. I don't think money was his alterior motive but he should have at least gone about everything in accordance with the law. Please correct me if I misunderstood anything.

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    Brianne,
    Some people make a living working at stocking shelves in grocery stores and others make their living capturing fugitives that law enforcement agencies cannot catch. Dog went after Luster because it was the right thing to do plus it was how Dog routinely feeds his family. There was an old adage used by accomplished, veteran FBI agents, "It is always better to ask for forgiveness rather than to ask for permission". One must look to the perspective of the victim in these cases like 9 year old Jessica from Florida. She would be alive today if a DOG-like Investigator was on her missing person case. I will always opt for action rather than in-action and will try to find the one way to be successful rather than the 10 ways not to be successful. Use the glass half-full or half-empty scenario. The glass is always half-full to me....Dr. George W. Walker, Sr.

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    Dog is good at what he does....

    I'm glad Luster was captured. I believe Dog should have gotten something for the capture. He took it with stride and that shows good character. I just do not agree with you have to have a clean background (as was stated in above link) to bring someone, who deserves to be in jail, that is on the run. Hats off to Dog, at least Luster is off the streets and can not hurt anyone else.....

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    I agree with you, Tamara. From what I recall, quite a few bounty hunters do have a criminal background and have learned a thing or two for their craft on the inside. This shouldn't be held against them when going after fugitives such as Luster. These fugitives aren't boy scouts and sometimes it takes a non-boyscout to catch one of these guys.

    However, a guy as experienced as Dog should have known the requirements in order to catch a fugitive and retrieve his bounty. There's no excuse for that; however, he IS being paid through publicity and that may have played a hand in getting a show on A&E. After all, any publicity is good publicity. :-)

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    I agree with you...sort of

    In my other post I tore Duane "Dog" Chapman down, and although I did that, I must say that he is effective. Brutality is effective, if that's what you're in the business for. If "Dog" wanted to reform people, than he shouldn't fight them or tackle them. What about quietly walking up, cuffing him, and throing him into the back of a loaded van and driving off? That would have avoided him an arrest and probably not have been considered "vigilante" enough to prevent him from getting his $350,000.

    I must say I enjoy watching criminals get apprehended but if you don't want to be catching them a few years down the road, then you'll want to try to get them offthe streets for good. A legitmate job helps this process. People are less likely to be criminals when they are shown they can do better in life, breaking the cycle of decades of family criminals (drug dealers using their children as coke mules, for example). It works the same way domestic violence does. To stop it all together, you have to cut the head from the body. You have to completely reform these people and get their tendencies in check and show them an alternate lifestyle.

    I think it would also help if the Jusitce system kept cons in prison longer and longer the more crimes they commit. I see nothing wrong with California's three strikes system. If you're brazen enough to do the same thing three times, being caught each time, it shows you don't care and have no rehabilitative possibilites. Prisons have to play their part, as well. Reforming the "bad guys" should be their jobs, not just chaining them up and waiting the days away until they can get out and be tougher criminals with the "traditions of the trade" they learned while in jail.

    Best
    KD

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    For Kevin Dame.

    The General Public has no idea what Bounty Hunters do for a living. If law enforcement is after a fugitive they put out an all points bulletin to include a fugitive poster. For example the FBI puts out a Wanted Poster and lists indiviuals as "Armed and Dangerous" which means you are a dead person if you go up to them and ask them to surrender quietly. These criminals only respond to overwhelming and overpowering offense that is swift and certain. These criminals will respond with overwhelming retaliation if given an opportunity to. Some of these criminals have vowed no to go back to jail. In a perfect world, all the social steps you suggest are not working. The courts let them go as fast as the officers catch them, the prisons parole inmates to make room in the prisons. The Bounty Hunter is not a politician, judge, law enforcement official or social worker. We catch fugitives that law enforcement can't because of an overloadeded workload and administrative red tape. Bounty Hunters don't get paid if they aren't successful and don't get medical benefits if they get hurt. Bounty Hunters catch more fugitives than the FBI and the U.S. Marshals combined......Dr. George W. Walker, Sr.

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    Red face Good point.

    For Mr. Walker.

    I understand your point, it is a valid one and I for one am not opposed to bounty hunters using force to occasionally bring down a convicted murder felon or some aggrivated rapist or something. If force is needed, by all means go ahead and do it. However, there is a stealthier approach to doing things as opposed to running up on a crowded street and flashing a gun around. The criminal will surely run and nobody in their right (in some cases wrong) mind fire off a weapon in public and risk hitting a pedestrian. By acting brazenly and quickly, the bounty hunter risks loosing the suspect AND getting an innocent person hurt.

    Why not capture a fugitive at his home or living space around 4 am when they're asleep? More surveilance would ensure a quieter, more safe capture. Someone is unable to defend themselves after waking up out of a sleep state, especially if it were a drug/alcohol induced sleep and fight for themselves in such a way that would pose a threat to a bounty hunter.

    Of course, night time surveilance wouldn't make for such a captivating show, so some leeway is given to the "Hollywood Bounty Hunters".

    Best
    KD

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    Kevin, thanks, I am glad you see the reasoning. Some more food for thought.....

    Remember, these are the fugitives that the cops cannot catch, so they are smarter, more violent, have successfully thwarted law enforcement in more than one state of the United States. If you plan on capturing a felon at home you are putting yourself in danger because that is his/her castle. They know were the guns are and the booby-traps etc. You never want to apprehend them at home and at night. A raid at night of their home is dangerous because they know it is the police or Bounty Hunters because no one knocks or enters early in the morning except for cops and Bounty Hunters. If they are drugged-induced at home they are more than likely to shoot. We want to take them down on the street and brandishing our guns immediately lets them see they are overwhelmed. It is okay if they run on the street, it is better than opening up (shooting) on the Boutny Hunters with weapons hidden in their home. We use Tasers, Mace and other less than lethal weapons also. The bad guys don't give a 0000 about shooting a gun in public but naturally cops and Bounty Hunters do. Night Time surveillance makes for a great show and people love it. Have you seen the show "Cheaters" with PIs who track down cheating lovers..... All cases are different so you must try so many ways to capture these hardened criminals. You success is based upon how many fugitives you successfully catch and not gettting hurt or getting the public hurt in the process. Also you must make money or you are out of business and working at McDonalds instead of running your own successful business. We say, "If you find a job you love than you never really work a day in your life."

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    Dr. George Walker

    George.

    Based on the story of Dog went after Luster in Mexico and your scenairo on capturing fugitives that law enforcement agencies cannot catch. I agree Dog did a good deed to remove Luster off the street.

    Berthena

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    Hi George,
    I agree with you 100%! I have been reading your posts almost non-stop for a week now because I like the way you think, you give great advice. I know I will learn alot more in the near future, not only do you have the credentials- you also seem to have a head full of working grey matter
    Joyce

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    Hats off indeed to Dog! Yes, he should have been given some money for all the risks he and his family took for capturing this dangerous criminal! Dog's work as a true bounty hunter speaks for itelf!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Dame
    What about quietly walking up, cuffing him, and throing him into the back of a loaded van and driving off? That would have avoided him an arrest and probably not have been considered "vigilante" enough to prevent him from getting his $350,000.
    Best
    KD
    That would be nice if the world worked that way. It's easy to say, "just handcuff them and throw them in the van." For whatever reason, they usually comply right up until that first ratchet on the handcuff hits, and all heck breaks loose.The way Dog works is no different than a lot of swat teams and police when making an arrest. It's not a gentle process, and not meant to be. You have to be in complete control when handcuffing.

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    136
    Even though you may think dog is /or was intitled to some money remember this: Dog entered Mexico to make an arrest which is not legal,Dog was put in jail posted bond skip on bond which is illeagal so he is a wanted felon in Mexico. He is a real credit in the business of Bail Enforcement (NOT)

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