Cop Fired after Private Investigator catches him 00000000.

[Sara Livingston]

Cop Fired For Working While On Disability:

Story Link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030618/lo_WCVB/1663432


For one year, Duxbury police Officer Scott Myers said he was injured on the job, claiming he couldn't even do deskwork. Throughout the year, Myers collected disability pay.

NewsCenter 5's Janet Wu reported that now, Myers has been fired after a private investigator caught Myers on videotape at work at his pizza shop.

He is a 20-year veteran of the force and a lifelong resident of Duxbury. Now, some wonder whether Myers was faking a back injury so he could collect disability and devote time to his pizza parlor in the next town. Others say that running a food business a lot less strenuous than the potential problems of deskwork.

Myers was videotaped shot by an undercover detective who followed him for eight days last fall. The officer had been on disability leave since June 2002. Duxbury's police chief offered him desk duty, but he refused. On the video, Myers is seen sorting and dumping trash behind his store and building shelves.

"My decision was made a whole lot easier when I saw the videotape. If he could not perform his duties sitting at the desk, answering the phone, standing at the desk, but he could work in that pizza shop, he should have been able to perform some duty for the law enforcement department, and he didn't do it," Duxbury Town Manager Rocco Longo said.

His attorney, however, claims that answering the telephone isn't the only potential duties Myers would face if he accepted desk duty.

"People go into the stations, domestic disturbances overflow into the police station. It happens regularly. Does it happen every night? No, but it can happen. You don't always pay police for what they do, but for what they may have to do. The town's own doctors said that he can not do those functions," Myers' attorney Douglas Louison said.

"I would say to the doctor, let the doctor look at the film and he can make the diagnosis," Longo said.

Longo, who made the decision earlier this week to fire Myers, said the officer's history also was considered. Myers had been disciplined and suspended several times for abusing sick leave and failing to produce $3,000 of evidence in a case he handled.

"The department is embarrassed about what happened. It makes all police officers look bad," Duxbury Police Department Lt. Roger Banfill said.

Myers has filed an appeal to the Civil Service Commission. A preliminary hearing won't be set for months. But his attorney said that Myers' injury is not permanent, his pain is not daily and he expects to return to work some day.


(I wonder if local private investigators are getting heat from other police officers for catching one of the "own".)

[Robert Smith -]

Just goes to show you, that no matter what the position are type of person, someone will always try to take the easy way out, just to avoid doing what every other person on this planet has to do to survive. Man I can't stand that.

[Kathleen Padgett]

Charges should have been filed in addition to the firing. This officer had plenty of disciplinary actions taken toward correcting the misbehavior and repeatedly failed at corrective action. It sounds like a clear case of blatant disregard for the moral and ethical standards required in this important profession.

[Edwina Berlijn]

I agree with Kathleen, he blatantly did what ever he wanted to do...and sitting behind a desk, seems to be a lesser stress on your back, than dumping the garbage out, be hind the pizza place...I would think, that the video would speak for it self!

edwina berlijn

[William Brassfield]

Sad very sad.

[May K. Toney]

Boy, does this case bring back memories! It's one of the primary reasons why I chose to pursue other career options.

[Carolynne Giffoni]

It seems like there is always someone trying to get a free ride. Of course it's us, the taxpayers, who pay for such blatant behaviours. I'm pleased that the PI did a good job.

Carolynne

[William R. Larson]

It is sad to see, but we law enforcement folk much prefer seeing these people removed from the job, just like this guy. Bummer it had to go this long though. Disability insurance ain't cheap!

Now, courtesy of this con artist, the cost of disability insurance for his department he served for 20 years to cover him and all of his colleagues will cost more. :mad: There are few adjectives for this guy. :(

[Byron Burke II]

I can understand how this officer could not sit behind a desk without alot of pain, a few years ago I hurt myself and for a few months I could not sit and had to stand or lie down, but I could mow the lawn with the self propelled lawn mower, but with his displinary action in the past and carring trash bags (which from my experience should of caused much pain due to the pressure downward on the spine) He should have criminal charges filed on him.

[Alvin Dean Wilkerson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Edwina Berlijn
[B]I agree with Kathleen, he blatantly did what ever he wanted to do...and sitting behind a desk, seems to be a lesser stress on your back, than dumping the garbage out, be hind the pizza place...I would think, that the video would speak for it self!

:o it's sad to see law enforcement officer's embarras other's in there line of work,iam aux......police. and i can't even get hire in as an officer. sham on him. he got what he got!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chanelle Stevenson]

Everyone,

I agree with Kathleen on this one. The police department or the State must have some recourse as to the legal basis for sueing the officer in a criminal action to recoup the monies previously paid.

However, since this case will be appealed, it will be several months perhaps years to be finally resolved. At any rate, the taxpayers will continue to pay for these legal processes that could have been prevented.

Good job on the private investigation to record a accurate video taping acceptable enough to be used in court. I see no room for excuses in this instance of clear abuse of the law enforcement privileges. The sad thing is that it happens more often than we know of.

It obviously takes more physical effort to bend and lift continously on a job such as resturant worker; so if he was inconsiderate enough to infringe on the system by breaking the law and dumb enough to get caught, then he deserves to be in JAIL.

My thought is that if had been punished the first time, this instance would not have happened.

Thanks for the story,

Chanelle Stevenson
Computer Forensic Private Investigator Trainee;) :(

[Mr Jose Bonavich Jr]

Sara,

Thanks for posting this. Fraudulent disability claims are filed everyday in this country and unfortunately we have to pay for them. Though it's just one case in a million, anytime someone is "caught" it could discourage someone else from filing.

[Linda Curry]

Sad to say, we know there are other like him doing corrupt things under the mask of law enforcement. Some people just do not know how to be meek, that is, have power under control. This officer used his persuasive skills until they ran out. There is a limit to everything and he found out his limits. My, my, my. Thumbs up to the PI who spyed, however, not in vain.

linda

[Deborah W]

This case (among many other just like it) makes it hard for people who really are disabled and need the compensation. :(

As for the officer, why didn't he just retire? Perhaps Duxbury is different, but in my area an officer can retire after ten years (vested retirement). At any rate, I hope he serves time for fraud as an example to the rest who think they can break the law.

[Don Menard]

Well, well, well, this does make an interesting situation. Their are enough parties involved to commence a three ring circus - which I have no doubts that is just what may occur.

There is the point of view from: [list=1]
The Police Officer
The Town Manager
The Police Department
The Medical Profession, (I figure there will be numerous Medical Professionals involves)
Insurance Company Professionals
The Private Investigator
As well as others [/list=1]
The point of this is we do not have enough information at this time to make a informed decision, opinions yes, and from the information given I'd say that it doesn't look good for the Police Officer.

In reading all the posts, I found them all very interesting and enlightening. I agree with just about everything written, however, I still would like to have more information.

So from any point of view or opinion, I find that this should become a very interesting case.

I sure hope that none of the local Private Investigators are receiving heat for this.

[Shomona Lofland]

Fraud is a terrible thing. People don't realize they are defrauding law abiding tax payers as well as the organization. If he wanted to work full-time at his pizza business, then he should have resigned from the police force with dignity and not dishonor.

[Deborah Siehl]

Hi Shomona,

Welcome to IPIU. Just thought I would invite you to post your introduction in the introduction lounge. Members will greet you and give you some great links on how to move around the forums.

Tell us about your self and what your interests are.

Hope to see you there.

Deborah Siehl

[Michael Gonzales -]

This is a incrediable investigation. Once again, it takes a good investigator to establish the facts that provides the evidence. Not everyone is always willing to bring an officer of the law to justice. A great job done by the investigator.

[Danny King -]

I believe it was last Sept when a police officer (a Sgt no less) in a neighboring town was caught on video tape, by a civilian, reviewing pornography on his patrol car's computerwhile he was on duty. He was supposed to be working at the fair.

Just goes to show every occupation has its weirdos.:eek:

[Alvin Dean Wilkerson]

Originally posted by Deborah W
This case (among many other just like it) makes it hard for people who really are disabled and need the compensation. :(

As for the officer, why didn't he just retire? Perhaps Duxbury is different, but in my area an officer can retire after ten years (vested retirement). At any rate, I hope he serves time for fraud as an example to the rest who think they can break the law. :cool: hi!!!!! deb ,you know as an officer its hard to let go of the badge.The reason he didn't retire because he wanted to keep the gory he accomplished,ins.,(ect).I have been an aux. officer for 5 years,and I can't let it go :cool: but, in reality he should get whats coming to him.In the future (sworn or non-sword) hold your head up!!!!!!!!!! and repect your badge.:cool:

[Deborah W]

Originally posted by Alvin Dean Wilkerson
:cool: hi!!!!! deb ,you know as an officer its hard to let go of the badge.The reason he didn't retire because he wanted to keep the gory he accomplished,ins.,(ect).I have been an aux. officer for 5 years,and I can't let it go :cool: but, in reality he should get whats coming to him.In the future (sworn or non-sword) hold your head up!!!!!!!!!! and repect your badge.:cool:

I couldn't agree with you more, Alvin! :)

[Chanelle Stevenson]

Greetings ALVIN DEAN WILKERSON,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is an "aux police officer"? I was just wondering if this means you are an officer working full duty, however not in the "streets". I'm not familiar with all of the terms, this however is new to me.

By any chance do you engage in any computer crimes investigations? If so, how are the cases assigned to you or to what unit within your department?

I still hold strong on my original thoughts on this subject. (see message above)

Curious minds want to know, thanks.

Chanelle Stevenson
Forensic Computers Private Investigator Trainee

;)

[Amanda Monroe]

Congratulations to the private eye, who did a great job in catching such a deceitful police officer. When any police officer does something outside of the law, it does put a black mark on how the public feels towards other officers. I would think he should at least pay back the disability he received.

[Michael Harris]

Sara,

This says it all (you said it):

"I wonder if local private investigators are getting heat from other police officers for catching one of the "own"."

This is similar to trying to find a lawyer to sue another lawyer for malpractice.

The article matches what I have read about PI work for insurance companies. Thants for the post.

[Michael Harris]

Sara,

This says it all (you said it):

"I wonder if local private investigators are getting heat from other police officers for catching one of the "own"."

This is similar to trying to find a lawyer to sue another lawyer for malpractice.

The article matches what I have read about PI work for insurance companies. Thants for the post.

[Alvin Dean Wilkerson]

Originally posted by Chanelle Stevenson
Greetings ALVIN DEAN WILKERSON,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is an "aux police officer"? I was just wondering if this means you are an officer working full duty, however not in the "streets". I'm not familiar with all of the terms, this however is new to me.

By any chance do you engage in any computer crimes investigations? If so, how are the cases assigned to you or to what unit within your department?

I still hold strong on my original thoughts on this subject. (see message above)

Curious minds want to know, thanks.

Chanelle Stevenson
Forensic Computers Private Investigator Trainee

;) :cool: Hi!!! chanelle , this is Al dean,an auxiliary police officer is an officer thats gives extra support to the full time police officer. I am an sworn aux. police officer,voluteer. my duties I can't speak on.:) No I don't work on any computor crimes,but would love to learn. I do work in the streets w/ other officer. thanks for asking, al.

[Andre Scott]

Ive seen it all before. One guy gets a pension claim and tries to milk it until someones on his case. He gets fried and loses it all.. This is a very sad case....

[Chanelle Stevenson]

Alvin,

Thanks so much for the info. It was very helpful. I guess one way to learn about computer forensics is to find out how you would like to utilize it in your business or to work for you in your daily life.

It can be used for background info, tracking individuals and an assortment of other avenues. I don't know if you would like to take any classes or maybe do some independent research on the topic.

Since it is a vast subject, you can determine how much to learn and what to learn. I have a couple of good books that seem to be easy reading. Let me know if you need the names of them.

Take care, will see you in the forums.

Chanelle Stevenson
Computer Forensics Private Investigator Trainee:)

[Robert Kamens]

Scott is the kind of guys that will keep us in business. The police department is probably twice as embarrassed knowing that one of the local private investigators took down one of their own..No doubt

Great Story

Robert kamens

[Jonathan J. DiBello]

I hope that they're also filing charges against him! He should be treated like every other citizen.

Thank You,

Jonathan J. DiBello

[Daphane Davis]

Sara,

Very interesting and informative information. The cop should definitely get what's coming to him, however, this makes me question the ethics of others involved with this case ie. the doctor. Was the doctor falsifying information to collect payments from the insurance company as well. Hopefully, everyone involved in the 0000 will have a penalty to pay (ie jail time, enormous fines, loss of employment).

Daphane

[Willie Williams]

People like that make it much more diificult for people that are actually needing financial assistance to get help. When someone is injured and legitimately cannot perform his/her duties they are heavily scrutinized because of situations like this. I hope these kind of people get what they deserve. This was a good catch!

Willie Williams

[Barbara Compton]

I have noticed that this case has been going on for a while (by date of the thread). I was wondering if anyone has herd an update on this case? But my oppion on this is: I have seen how busy pizza shops do get, he must have been stressed out there as well. So for me stress on his job as a cop isn't an excuse.

Just a thought
Barbara Compton

[Bonnie Pettegrew]

Kudo's to the PI who caught this person. It always seems like the innocent people and those that really need disability insurance have to run through all the red tape to get it. My Mom spent over a year trying to get disability because she can't work anymore at a regular job and almost didn't get it because of 0000 that makes it harder to prove that you can't work.:mad:

[Barbara Compton]

Sorry to hear about your mom Bonnie. I'm glad she ended up getting it. I have herd of a person who faked her disability. The great PI had gotten evidence of her "ability" :) She wasn't aware of the PI until her court hearing and the judge had asked if she was "so injured" how can she explain these pictures (of her dancing her little heart out) When they were brought over to her, her mouth dropped and asked "where did you get these pictures"? Her case was so totally dropped. That I know of no charges were brought against her. Another case of a PI knowing his/her job.
:)
Barbara Compton

[Bonnie Pettegrew]

Thanks Barbara. The good news to my story is that my Mom got it and lets me know how "busy" she is now that she has no job. :D Ya' gott'a love your Mom!

[Barbara Compton]

Now she can catch up on soap opras....Opra Winfry....oh and knitting. Is she able to play bingo? Hugs to the both of you. :)
God Bless
Barbara Compton

[Bonnie Pettegrew]

Naw, Mom doesn't like Bingo or soaps. However, I'm proud to say she recently got re-married at 62 to a wonderful guy and is happy to sell Avon to anyone (including me :)). Sometimes the disability process works. Thanks for your comments Barbara. They help make me feel better.:p

[Michael Harris]

Bonnie,

I am happy for you mother - 62 is still very young.

[Darcie L Chaffin]

I hope this cop faced other charges besides being fired. One of my pet peeves is when a healthy person takes benefits (social security, disability) when there is nothing wrong with them. I have seen people who desparately need these benefits and have them taken away while people like this cop take the benefits when they are plenty capable of working. This is one of the reasons I decided to become a PI, to help the people who need it and turn in the people who don't.

Darcie

[Jim Lyons]

Let me give you some real-world insights into this kind of case. I have taken damning video of a police officer, several corrections officers, volunteer ambulance drivers, etc. I've had great tape of people who have been collecting workers comp since the 1970s, and it was obvious from the beginning of the investigation that they had been 00000000 for at least a decade.

You know what usually happens? The insurance company cuts them off. That's it.

No criminal prosecutions. No orders of restitution. No nothing.

And in some cases, the insurance carrier may settle with the claimant, paying them a sum of money to make them go away. I've had dozens of people who I risked my neck to catch on tape who ended up getting checks for $10,000 or more.

Now, one factor is that they do have medical and legal bills. Quite often, the cash settlement will cover those bills and that's it. Then the ex-claimants are on their own.

Then there are worse cases. I had a guy who had been out on a "back injury" for over two years from a local construction company.

When I did surveillance, the guy worked for three days straight in a greenhouse he and his family had opened and were operating. He was a busy guy and I nearly got caught half a dozen times getting the video.

The result? The insurance carrier sent him a check for $50,000. After his hospital and legal bills, he netted about $20,000 tax free.

Why does this happen? To the insurance company, a $50,000 payment was a huge savings.

The carrier must set aside a cash reserve based on the severity of injury, income before injury, actuary estimates of life expectency, expected medical costs, etc. In some cases, that means a cash reserve in the area of $400,000 to a million bucks.

So, with my greenhouse guy, the insurance carrier had set aside $350,000, accumulating interest to make monthly payments totalling about 60 percent of his wages before the injury, and for medical bills related to his injury. By paying us $5,000 to investigate the claim, paying the insurance company lawyers $5,000 to litigate the claim and paying the claimant $50,000 to make it go away, the company spent $60,000 but freed up $290,000 in cash.

That's the way it was with that police officer, I'm sure. And the insurance company has no motivation to seek prosecution of anyone.

For starters, they're a business. To advocate criminal prosecution isn't in their nature.

Seeking prosecution can also be a **** shoot. Who knows what a jury or judge may do that could impact the ability of an insurance company to do business.

Also, criminal prosecution would require an investigation that would open up the doors to the processes used by the insurance companies. Can anyone guarantee that no mistakes were made in the handling of the file?

And what will the insurance carrier gain by seeking prosecution? If someone needs to milk worker's compensation, they probably don't have piles of cash sitting around, ready to pay off any fines and retribution ordered by the court.

Even a fairly well-off individual only has a few hundred thousand in assets available for recovery. My construction worker or that cop may have been worth $50,000, if that.

If the insurance company can even win some compensation in a criminal prosecution, the odds of collecting are slim. At best, they may end up owning a share of a pizza parlor or green house.

Nope, anyone reading this thread can act all indignant about the police officer getting away with fraud. But if you get into the real-world situations involved with day-to-day insurance fraud, you rarely, if ever, see prosecutions.

It just doesn't pay for the wronged parties, the insurance companies, to advocate for the punishment of the fraudulent. It's one of the toughest parts of being a private investigator: we get to see inside the fraud, to see where people are being deceitful, dishonest and immoral, yet we rarely, if ever, get to see them punished for their behavior.

Even worse, sometimes they just skate away with a big wad of cash, looking for their next chance to "hurt" their back again. If you can't swallow that pile of poop, then this is the wrong line of work for you.

[Barbara Compton]

Wow Jim. Very informative. Thank you for going into detail. Love learning. :)

Barbara Compton

[Darcie L Chaffin]

Thanks for the info Jim. I realized most of the time people get away with this. Seen others get away with it. This will not deter me because I feel if I can get one, then that is one less person sticking it to the system.

Thanks for the article though, it was good for me to read something like it. I enjoy reading those real world experiences, keep it up.


Darcie:)

[Daphane Davis]

Jim

Again, thanks for the information.

This will not deter my quest to seek justice (however far that will get me). Unfortunately, as you stated that is just the nature of the business. Your insight has helped to answer several of my questions.

[Bobby Williams]

Great job to the Investigator who work the case. This one of the reasons why I want to be working as a Private Investigator.

This is inspiring news ;)

[Michael Harris]

Jim,

I am sorry that the insurance companies would pay, but many of them come out ahead by paying a lump sum to stop the long-term hemorrhage of cash.

Great post. I am sorry that I did not read it carefully enough the first time.

Keep up the great work.

[Richard Greiner -]

Sara,

Thanks for the info! I just don't understand why don't people like them use there heads, it's hard to fool people these days. Then again don't let them use there head because then we wouldn't have a Job.

[Frederick Budde]

Interesting reading, as we've all dealt with people on the "other side". Has anyone found an update on the police officer who started this whole string? I'd be interested in hearing the status of the case.

Fred Budde

[Ken Proffitt]

You hit it right on the nose :)
Great post i really enjoyed it.... :D

[Jim Lyons]

That's one of the other annoying things about the private investigation process: You rarely find out about the actual results of cases.

I've shot bang-up video before that would have stood up for a criminal fraud trial in a court of law. But I never, ever knew what happened, just that it was "settled."

Sometimes the claims people don't want to talk about it because they know what we'll say: Aw, jeese, couldn't you have done better? Or they've moved on to 14 of their other 350 cases.

Even in local criminal defense cases, no one really talks about results. Sometimes I'll go pull the files to see if we did any good.

To be honest, I bet the investigator who shot the video of the police officer has no idea what happened, and the city officials are probably in the dark as to the final outcome.

The thing to remember is that worker's compensation, personal injury disability, etc., are all contracts between private individuals and private businesses. In work comp, the arbitration system is separate from the court system in most states and involves almost completely confidential transactions.

Even in personal injury protection (PIP) and personal liability claims, most are settled long before they reach a courthouse. Some insurance policies now are even requiring third-party arbitration that keeps even civil lawsuits out of the courts.

It's just part of life, frequently depicted by good fiction writers as the dark and uncertain nature of the job. Rarely, if ever, does an investigator wrap up a case in a neat bow and know what the actual results are, despite what you see on Rockford Files or Monk or CSI.

It's a world of gray uncertainties. But, hey, it's our world.

[George P. Eells]

Just goes to show police officers are not perfect either.Give someone an inch and they"ll take a mile.:mad:

[Ken Proffitt]

Originally posted by George P. Eells
Just goes to show police officers are not perfect either.Give someone an inch and they"ll take a mile.:mad:


I'd like to believe the bad officers are the exception, Alot of good people out there on the line for us.

[Frederick Budde]

Amen, Ken!

Just think about the nice job they did in Sarasota, FL. Unfortunately, the deed had been done, but they got the guy anyway.

Fred

[Ken Proffitt]

Originally posted by Dr. Frederick Budde
Amen, Ken!

Just think about the nice job they did in Sarasota, FL. Unfortunately, the deed had been done, but they got the guy anyway.

Fred

EXACTLY :D

[Barbara Hardin]

Yes, he will be treated worse than any other citizen simply, because he is a police officer. He have had enough time in the law enforcement field to know better. It is a sad case.

Thanks for sharing the great story!

[Patrick Egan]

Pat
Thank you fo the information
My saying on this is if it wasn't for the Pi doing the job,the Ins company woundn't know what to pay the person off.This way they what to close the case up and put it to bed.
So it don't cost the ins company alot more money then what they spend for the job.

[Debra Lewis -]

on the police vs. PI conflict

if PI embarrass the police, by busting things out, of course the police won't want us around...
now i see PI can be a check and balance system regarding the police, and they way police conduct themselves
whether workman's comp
or an actual civil or criminal invesigation...
we have the power to point out their flaws

[Jim Lyons]

Irritating police officers isn't just an incidental activity for PIs, sometimes it's part of the job.

We are generally the only other investigators to thoroughly review criminal investigations as part of criminal defense work. On at least two occasions, I've found evidence of sloppy police work, and the officers involved haven't kept me on their Christmas card list, I can assure you.

In one case, three jurisdictions filed charges against a lady who was literally stealing from church collection baskets and from the desks of teachers in a parochial school.

One of the allegedly stolen items was a videocamera and, during the search of the suspect's residence, police found a videocamera. When I looked over the camera in the evidence locker, though, it was not the same as described by the victim.

In fact, the camera was not the stolen camera at all. The officers had done a poor job of following up and had just filed charges based on incomplete information.

Ultimately, charges from the department with the videocamera were dropped, but our client was convicted on a variety of other charges. It should be noted: We proved she was guilty as all get out, and her lawyer basically ordered her to plead out.

But that videocamera is still in the evidence locker and it either honestly belonged to our client or was stolen from someone else, which I would believe. And no one - not even the officers involved in the initial investigation - seems interested in finding out the truth.

I never said, "Nyah, nyah, you messed up," to the officers, but there has been a level of animosity there based on my discovery. I don't trust either officer anymore and they don't have a lot of nice things to say about PIs.

Most law officers try their darndest and get the job done according to the rules. Most live an honorable life and would never fake a work-comp injury.

But PIs are frequently tasked with poking holes in investigations and looking for scofflaws. As I tell officers giving me attitude during an investigation, "I'm just doing my job."

Just goes to show you that being a PI doesn't always involve playing nicey nice with law enforcement. And sometimes the attitude some law officers give PIs is based on something other than an "honest contempt," but comes from a bad experience of their own making.

[Debra Lewis -]

so if i read your post correctly...
what you are saying is that
they do it to themselves...

[Michael Harris]

Jim/Debra,

I read Jim's post the same way Debra did.

One of the first things I learned about PI work was that the police do not hav enough time or personnel to do the job right except on the really nasty felonies. That is why there is so much wour for PIs.

Most police do a decent job, but the sloppy ones make the press.

[Robert G Paluch]

Cop Fired

If nothing else;
why didn't this guy say he'd try the desk duty? Instead he dismissed it. Did he know in advance that working at his pizza shop wouldn't be harmful? Give me a break. This guy is toast.
Much of circumstantial evidence is opinion.If you have enough opinions the circumstances speak for themselves.
Watch what happens in the Scott Peterson case. Nothing but circumstantial evidence created by opinion. Peterson is a gonner also.

[Technical Support]

Originally posted by Debra Lewis
so if i read your post correctly...
what you are saying is that
they do it to themselves... Not sure, but . . .

There have been more licensed private investigators than LEO's that have been jailed for wrong doing . . . none of which have been union members.

[Joyce C Dixon]

Hello all: well just read some of the posts here and to me the PIshould stand up and take a bow good job!!!! the police officer well this is one of the reason I want to be a PI myself to get these people who are not telling the truth about there inguries. This has allways made me mad when this happens. while they are getting free money there are 100s who need it and can not get it because they are sick,hurt or what ever. I am sorry but this police officer should have to pay every dime back.. and should be ashame. 20 years as a police officer he should have known better... I wonder what else he has done:mad:

[Larry Earley]

Thanks for the info. I guess that is why we are all here. To do what is right.

[Jim Lyons]

Tech support:

Your statement that "There have been more licensed private investigators than LEO's that have been jailed for wrong doing" is at least statistically innaccurate, if not indicative of a personal bias on the issue.

There are at least 20 times as many police officers, if not 40 times as many police officers, as there are private investigators in this country. It would be highly unlikely that, man for man, more PIs have been jailed than police officers.

In my experience, I lose count of the number of police officers I've heard of who have been jailed, from Budzyn and Nevers in Detroit to a drug-dealing deputy in the UP.

I personally recall possibly two stories about PIs actually convicted of wrongdoing. I also know a few who have been detained or ticketed for wrongdoing, and I recall that one won a small lawsuit after being injured during an unlawful detention.

Now, if you want to say that only a certain percent of LEOs are ever convicted of a criminal offense, while a certain percent of licensed PIs are ever convicted, that's fine by me. Statistically, a higher percentage of PIs may be convicted of crimes against the state.

However, I have a couple of caveats following this firm statement: I greatly respect good law officers. Always have, always will. They do a tremendously difficult job with little support from their community and daily make choices that few men or women will ever face in their entire lives.

Now the caveat: Your statistical statement ignores the fact that not all bad law officers face criminal charges. I can think of a dozen cases where things were let slide and an officer who most likely commited a felony was never charged.

I know of at least three rookie patrolmen who were caught bedding young teenaged girls in their patrol cars. One was quietly let go and I believe he paid an out-of-court settlement before a civil suit was filed. The other two got super-secret probation and are still on the job - and both are pretty good officers today.

I know a deputy who lost control during a traffic stop and beat a drunk senseless. He got a two-week vacation and the drunk got a small settlement.

Okay, imagine this: PI gets caught molesting young girls in the back of a surveillance van. Will he get a walk or face CSC charges? I think he's facing charges.

How about a pass on the charge of assault and battery? The deputy never faced those charges, but a PI almost certainly would.

Your argument is false and does a disservice to anyone training to be a PI, or to be a good citizen. Police officers have too much power to get a pass every time they are discussed in these forums, or when taxpayers review the quality of service they receive.

Again, I have a great deal of respect for good law officers. But citizens and especially PIs need to demystify the job and be ready to call a spade a spade.

Can police officers commit work comp fraud? Been there and seen it myself.

Do they make errors that leave unintended victims behind? It happens.

Can they own up to their mistakes and try to never do it again? Seen that happen, too, but not nearly enough.

Should fellow officers be demanding more of poor officers? I think they generally do. And sometimes they help cover the weaknesses of their fellow officers, keeping sex-crazed officers away from teenaged girls and stepping in when a partner is getting out of control.

It's an amazing fraternity created by an incredible employment situation. But we as PIs can not be allowed to give them a pass every time, or be surprised to hear that one got caught for work comp fraud.

PIs need to deal with them with an open mind. They deserve respect but suspicion, just like everyone else we meet.

PI trainees need to hear that law officers have a set of characteristics that need to be watched for, just like other groups of people we investigate or work with.

Example: I suspect a factory worker may commit work comp fraud if others in his family are on comp or disability, if they have had prior comp claims that have been denied, if they worked someplace for only a short period of time, if they participate in an outside activity that could cause physical injury (dirt-bike racing, for example), etc. These are characteristics that I'm on the watch for at all times while conducting an investigation.

I have similar list of suspicions for other groups: nursing assistants generally find another job quickly and may collect work comp while working somewhere else; heavy equipment operators frequently collect comp while working on personal projects; and mechanics frequently set up shop in their home garage and work on the side for cash.

These are just averages gleaned from experience and training, not hard and fast rules. Sometimes a police officer, mechanic, shop worker or nurses aide is actually honestly injured, too.

But a list of these charateristics exists for law officers, too. To challenge discussion of these characteristics devalues the training experience. What we need to do is understand the job and respect the tasks that we ask law officers to perform, but be realistic and informed about the goods and bads that exist in all groups of people.

Without this honesty, we invite disaster upon us as PIs and as citizens. Bad departments and officers cost individuals freedom and a sense of well being, and communities a lot of tax dollars.

Case in point, look at Detroit PD, now in federal receivership basically, paying millions each year in settlements for abusive and deadly mistakes. One officer alone was involved in several fatal shootings, most of them resulting in civil lawsuits that cost the department millions of dollars.

For years, their homicide division would round up family members of suspects and hold them in detention until a suspect turned himself in or another suspect was found. Innocent citizens - not suspects in the crime - were sometimes held FOR DAYS during investigations.

There are a lot of good officers in Detroit, but some others committed heinous acts against the citizens they were supposed to be defending. Should we continue to give this department a pass?

I just want future PIs to be informed. Good police officers deserve our respect and can be invaluable sources. Bad police officers can put an investigation at risk and can do slipshod work that we are asked to undo as criminal defense attorneys.

They can also fake work comp claims.

As I said before and as I will say again, police officers have too much power to get a pass every time they are discussed in these forums. Using false statistics or attacking the messenger will not change this fact.

[Robert G Paluch]

Tech Support/Mr. Jim Lyons
I have lived in and around Chicago all my life. I have yet to read or see on tv any news article involving PI wrong doing. I am hard pressed though, to recall any year in which there has not been some type of investigation going on involving law enforcement either in Metro Chicago or the surrounding suburbs. These investigations covered everything from LEO burglary rings, to narcotics, to strong arm robbery of immigrants. We've got it all here.

[Miguel Martinez]

Originally posted by Sara Livingston
Cop Fired For Working While On Disability:

Story Link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030618/lo_WCVB/1663432



(I wonder if local private investigators are getting heat from other police officers for catching one of the "own".) :(

[Jim Lyons]

Bob,

Right after our little discussion, a PI in my own neck of the woods ended up in trouble. I put the stories in forums at this link: http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=15080

We haven't had a publicized case of police misconduct up here in years, so I guess there are more PIs in trouble here than LEOs.

Now if you count all the police misconduct issues that never went public, that's another story.

[Robert G Paluch]

JPL,
Just replied to your articlle. Interesting situation Cihak got himself into.
By the way, How do you stay warm doing surveillance on snow mobiles up there? LOL:D

[Jim Lyons]

I didn't know we were supposed to stay warm. We normally just freeze until it's time to chase someone, then try to warm up before they get to WalMart.

I wear layers and hunting gear. My boots are rated to 100 below and I've got a jump suit and mukluk that both keep me warm to about zero degrees while sitting still in the surveillance van.

The real trick is keeping the inside of the van windows from frosting up.

There are nice things about the cold climate, though. Everyone has to shovel snow sooner or later, so we frequently get claimants digging away for our cameras. And it doesn't get nearly as warm up here as it does even in lower Michigan. We don't have a lot of surveillance-van-turned-roaster-oven days up here, and while you can put on more clothes to stay warm, you can't take off your skin to stay cool.

Come up and give it a try next February. I'm sure you'll find it invigorating. Or it's possible you'll die of the cold, but it's better than heatstroke.

[Robert G Paluch]

JPL
I used to spend my summers working on my aunts farm in Charlevioux. Even in early Spring the temps would drop to the 30's at night. It's my understanding it is impossible to get in or out of the UP from Halloween to Memorial day. Iv'e also heard some rumors of strange behavior regarding the UPPERS. Are they true?:D :D :D

[Jim Lyons]

Yes, it's true. Some people can't get into the UP during the winter months. We don't want them here.

I have, after taking a sauna that reached 170 degrees, run naked onto an ice-covered lake and jumped into a hole in the ice, plunging into water covered with a skim of freshly formed ice.

Does that count as strange behavior?

I've also never had a problem finding someone who would stop when my car breaks down, to offer me a tow or jump start, to give me a ride to my door (not that I have that many car problems), and to generally go out of their way for a stranger.

That, in much of this country, would also count as strange behavior.

How about this one: One time I was playing in a softball tournament on my birthday. It was one of those all-night affairs, and about 1:30 in the morning, a cold wind started blowing and it started snowing - just a swirl of flakes that melted before they really touched the ground.

The odd thing? My birthday is on July 1 and it was a July 4th weekend softball tournament.

But, as we noted at the time, it helps keep the keg of Old Style cold.

I've seen snow as early as August 25 and as late as my birthday. Old timers talk about seeing snow on July 4.

We're in the snowbelt up here and I have a six-foot tall, 25 foot by 30 foot wide pile of snow in my driveway that probably won't all go away until the middle of April.

It's been a slow snow year. We just broke the 200 inch mark a couple weeks ago and probably won't even make it to 250 inches. Some people I know are heartbroken.

Due to our northern latitude, our nights in December are 16 hours long. That said, our days in summer are 16 hours long.

I've been at outdoor parties in June and July where there's still a tinge of daylight in the sky at 11 o'clock.

The city of Munising is built on a hillside, with the top of the hill on the south side of town. Some of the houses on the hillside see no direct sunlight for more than six months straight. There's one nestled into the hill that someone told me has never seen direct sunlight.

I love the summers and winters, but I tell you, I can't wait to be a snowbird: Live up here during the summers and fly south for the winter. But I'd come back for a week in March to take sauna and jump through the ice.

And, while this might violate the IPIU rules by making negative statements about others, anyone who has never taken sauna and jumped naked into an icy lake before is a wimp. If you try to enter the UP via land or air during the winter months, you'll be turned back by a mysterious snowstorm.

Why do people live here? Some are too stupid to get out, some are smart enough to stay put and others - like me - realize that a good thing is hard to find.

Can't beat the people and the opportunities to experience nature's grandness at every turn. I mean, when was the last time you stepped in moose poop and saw an eagle on the same day?

P.S. We're called Yoopers, not Uppers. Come visit some time. I'll keep the sauna warm for ya.

[Robert G Paluch]

JPL,
I beleive you should submit that post to the chamber of commerce for their next tourist pamphlet.
Sorry, I got the yoopers mixed up with their chemical of choice.
No, I've never found it neccessary to jump through an ice skim into a lake and I don't intend to, unless it is for a significant amount of money.Wimp, wus, you got me.The sauna and Old Style part sounds good though. You are doing that for money, aren't you?
I have to admit, though, I have been in Lake Michigan in November in 36 degree water on several occasions for a little over a half hour each time.
If we got that much snow down her we'd be paralyzed til August. The weather people down here think a 4 inch snow fall is reason to consider us a federal disaster area.
If UP scenery wise is any thing lkie around Petoskey or the straits, it is beautiful country.
So keep a light on for me and the sauna at 170

[James L Parmenter -]

From personal experience, lower back surgery in 1983, i was on workmans comp for about a year and a half. A herniated disc at L5-S1 siatic notch sent pain 24/7 down my left leg to the ankle. In my case, i was unable to perform regular duties, in which my Dr. placed me on 100% total disability, and I was watched i'm sure by several PI's during that time.
In this cop's case, where he didnt have constant pain, and refused to accept desk work, but run a pizza pallor in the next town, while collecting disability pay, is pure insurance fraud, illegal and punishable by law. I am sure that many PI's get called to action in these types of cases. That's what keeps us in business ya'all..........carry on........

[Patrice-Maria Love]

Congratulations to the PI who videotaped the cop because this leave no room for denial. Law Enforcement is held to a higher standard than other people. He obviously didn't have any regards to ethical practice.

[Miguel Martinez]

That is why we need to stand for for what is right regardless if the person is a law enforcement officer.I a former law enforcement officer and I think one needs stand straight when working in a highly respected and honorable postion.Now I work as a Private Detective and I enjoy working the job even though I am so busy.Thanks for your response to my statement. :)

[Carl House]

Great job by the private investigator. Its the job of the private investigator to remain unbiased in his pursuit of the truth. Wheather it is a police offer or a civilian, the private investigator just gathers the facts and reports them.

The police officer should have remembered that " You Can Run, But You Can't Hide From The Privateeye. "

Have a great day,
Carl House

[Tyrone Williams]

I Think that it,s hard to get a good job and he get,s one and takes it for little or nothing.

[Prem Prasad]

"Corp Fired"

It happens alot no matter what type of job. I have seen this type of 00000000 on TV.
I think that when people do not respect their profession and cheat, they should be punish for breaking the Law.

[Petra Post]

Different opinions seen here and shared... what a great thread, everybody. Keep up with all this information (I am eating it up, lol)... I think that the Truth Is Out There and we can help uncover it... I love my new career already. I find that the officer should have to pay as well... losing his job as he did, may just be devastating enough, it will go on his records, right? I know, I know... some of his prior doings were covered up as well... well, maybe one of us will find out what the outcome was in this here case, never know, right?

[Mark Dehe]

I'm sure even the police were more than happy to get rid of their dead weight.

[Latisha N Smith]

All I have to same to this matter is, what goes on in the dark eventually comes to the light. You can only do wrong for so long until you are caught.

[Frederick Budde]

All I have to same to this matter is, what goes on in the dark eventually comes to the light. You can only do wrong for so long until you are caught.

Hopefully sooner than later :)
Fred

[Julie Mercer -]

Sara,
In the article it said that it made cops look bad. I totally disagree with that statement. No matter what profession there is out there, there is always one bad "apple". I know too many cops that would never do that nor would they ever condone that kind of behavior. Granted, it is very unfortunate that it had to be a police officer pulling that kind of ****! I guess now he will experience the other side of the law. :eek:

Julie Mercer

[Flora Porter]

Hi James,

Good question what ever do the final results be for these individuals who are caught? Umm,since no one realy talk about result. Very interesting.

Flora

[Flora Porter]

on the police vs. PI conflict

if PI embarrass the police, by busting things out, of course the police won't want us around...
now i see PI can be a check and balance system regarding the police, and they way police conduct themselves
whether workman's comp
or an actual civil or criminal invesigation...
we have the power to point out their flaws Hi Debra,
Police vs. PI conflict

I hate to say it but they must think that they are above the law. And could get away with there dirt, deceit and fraud :rolleyes: Since the department got there backs since we shoud not exect to hear of any punishments for these individuals crimes. :(

Deep regards,
Flora

[Flora Porter]

All I have to same to this matter is, what goes on in the dark eventually comes to the light. You can only do wrong for so long until you are caught.
Latisha, you are so right!

The saying "what goes around comes around"
"You should weep what you sow"

~Flora~

[Flora Porter]

I Think that it,s hard to get a good job and he get,s one and takes it for little or nothing.Tyrone are so right!

It is hard enough for us to get a good job or disability claims when there are guys like this one with a badge of authority abusing his rights to receive disability.

[Corwyn Patterson]

Now this is something I can iderntify with.(the back injury I mean).
I am not one to judge but I think before we judge this guy we should consider the fact that each of us has not seen that video tape.Considering the fact however that from the looks of it whatever was seen on that tape was enough to get him fired.
I can relate to the fact that having a back proble such as mine, I find it hard to sit at a desk for extended hours before my back starts to seise up.What is funny however is that I can do other things suchas go to track and sometimes play basket ball without a problem.Well i had to stop playing ball cause one time it really hurt my back.Track on the other hand deepending on what I am training for sometimes puts strain on it but my coaches give me the proper therapy.
Doing high jump and other events which involve the heavy back exercises and back movement, seen on a tape if I was in his situation will get me fired in any event, but the fact still remains that I am able to work but I will at some part of my day have really horrible back pain and to reliev it I have to get active or just lay down a bit.Ask yourself how willing will the company be to provide for him in that reguard.
Like I said not to judge, but in the article it mentioned "looking at his background the decsion was made based on that as well so I guess there is more to it than we really know.I guess thats the reason they hired and investigator in the first place.

Am I making sence anyone.Let me get some feed back and see how you guys are thinking.

[Lisa Mahoney]

Hello, regarding the cop, hey he made his bed, now he has to lay in it. But, I do feel bad for his fellow workers,they are the ones that will pay for it in the long run from their community. (we also will pay with our own disability insurance premiums.)
As for Jim slidding out of a sauna and jumping in ice cold water. I am in stitches. LOL My brother lives in Newberry and I live in Lower. I can picture that being done. Now for us all being wimps, hey, I'm gonna have to side with Bob on that one. Sorry.
Great information on the cops though, there are a few bad ones out there. Just like any other occupation. But, because they carry a badge it gets overlooked or buried.

[Patrice-Maria Love]

The cop should had known that he was definitely going to be followed, especially the department knew about his pizza parlor. He dishonored the code of ethics that he signed and since he didn't want to act ethically, he should have been terminated. It is rare that charges would have been brought up, termination is usually the action that is utilized for unethical police officers. Sometimes they are just suspended with pay. Hurray for this PI who did his work well!

[Frederick Budde]

Now this is something I can iderntify with.(the back injury I mean).
I am not one to judge but I think before we judge this guy we should consider the fact that each of us has not seen that video tape.Considering the fact however that from the looks of it whatever was seen on that tape was enough to get him fired.
I can relate to the fact that having a back proble such as mine, I find it hard to sit at a desk for extended hours before my back starts to seise up.What is funny however is that I can do other things suchas go to track and sometimes play basket ball without a problem.Well i had to stop playing ball cause one time it really hurt my back.Track on the other hand deepending on what I am training for sometimes puts strain on it but my coaches give me the proper therapy.
Doing high jump and other events which involve the heavy back exercises and back movement, seen on a tape if I was in his situation will get me fired in any event, but the fact still remains that I am able to work but I will at some part of my day have really horrible back pain and to reliev it I have to get active or just lay down a bit.Ask yourself how willing will the company be to provide for him in that reguard.
Like I said not to judge, but in the article it mentioned "looking at his background the decsion was made based on that as well so I guess there is more to it than we really know.I guess thats the reason they hired and investigator in the first place.

Am I making sence anyone.Let me get some feed back and see how you guys are thinking.
Corwyn;
Part of the problem is having jurors (not medical personnel) make decisions based on what they are told in the court room.

[Oscar armando Munoz]

bad cops get away with pretty much everything and as I learned the D.A will not prosecute a single claim W/C case unless there is a lot of money involved..In the Bay Area Cops and firefighter take advantage of the system and file a lot of W/C cases.
Urrrrahhh for the good COPS !!!!

[Linda J Rowe]

In this case maybe they should have had a couple medical professionals in the jury. Then the jury would have more insite on the situation.

[Latisha N Smith]

If this world was only so simple. Having medical professionals on the jury is too much like right.

[John Ballek]

It is always sad to see something like this happen, but it does. I always hope that justice is fair and just in these situations, do the crime and do the time.
I do feel that they make being a police officer out to be a job now a days, instead of a calling to serve the public. I feel this is ultimately the corrupt behind such thing as this.

[Jesse Lewandowski]

Unfortunately, shady characters exist in every aspect of life, from police officers to doctors to politicians. For the most part, you truly do not know what type of people you encounter on a day-to-day basis.

[Oscar armando Munoz]

That is why I gave a loud huraaaaaa for the good COPS!!!!!and for all the good people

[Linda J Rowe]

I learned that you may know someone and think there is nothing else to know and all of a sudden there is more comming out of the closet. I also learned to not trust anyone who will not be open and disclose information about them especially if I am in a relationship with them. I learned the hard way with my ex-husband which I am still dealing with his torment, abuse, and games not to mention how he can slip thru the laws arms because he uses legal stuff he learns from cases he was involved with or takes classes to use as his advantage. I have actually been with him when he lied his way out to a police officer when pulled over and we did not have insurance nor did he have a valid license. People whoo seem suspicious ussually are and usually are hiding something or are up to something no good.

[Oscar armando Munoz]

Linda, learn from him and use the same tricks and you will see how fast things change!....

[Lisa Roh -]

This isn't the first time I have read about, or even seen first hand what an Officer Of The Law is capable of. It honestly turns my stomach to see people (whom I hold in a higher standard) do these criminal acts. I once dated a cop, who to make a long story short, tried to embezzle money from me. WOW, talk about an eye opener.
Thanks for sharing.

[Oscar armando Munoz]

Where you and Linda meet those guys? Damm !!!!!

[Victoria S Kinney]

Unbelieveable that he figures that he didn't really do anything wrong. He should have to pay for all the disability insurance that he collected, plus serve time for fraud. If he is married how does this affect his family, especially if there is children involved. I hope he gets what he deserves. Hopefully the investigator doesn't get any threats of any kind because of what he did. I congradulate him for a job well.

[Tammy Rose]

There are so many more areas of fraudulent acts going on that it makes me sick. I have seen several people on disability taking advantage of pay. I know of one town alot of us could clean up there for disability pay for the state.

If we could get someone to hire about 20 or 30 of us we could get alot of scammers caught in that town. I also could give the local police alot of tips for druggies but you have to be careful in that area. TJ

[Joseph Anthony Perez]

I have seen and heard alot of stories of police corruption, I know that in the state I live in, it is said that it runs unusually high.
I myself, and people I know have been wrongly profiled and harrased by cops though I am not and never will be a criminal. I pay taxes to be protected by law enforcment, not harrased by them.
Thank God for all the good cops out there. I have thought about specializing in police corruption..after my training, but it seems like it would be risky. Corrupt cops seem to get away with murder and the worst thing that happens is they may loose their jobs, but anyone else goes to jail for life or is killed.
People who abuse this kind of power have no right having it

[Patti Schubert]

:(

It is really sad to hear that someone that is in a public profession to disgrace his department as well as other public professions.

Patti

[Frederick Budde]

It is unfortunate that law enforcement professionals are being held to a "higher standard" than the general public. We're just people in a particular position. Maybe if we held everyone (including ourselves) to a higher standard, life in the US would be better :)

[Joyce C Dixon]

how sad to read about this police officer but to tell you I am sure this goes on all over the place. we are finding it even with our religon too. so what is a person to do? I have allways raised my children to look up to the Police and obay the laws but it sure is hard to keep this up when the Police are doing what they are.

[Kenneth Owens]

I agree with Kathleen. I think more action should have taken place after the cop was fired. How can you not do a desk job but draw disabilty and work in a pizza parlor. I have worked in a pizza parlor and was a cop. I seen desk work and if I was injured I would stay with the desk work.

[Dennis Chevalier -]

Cop Fired For Working While On Disability:

Story Link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030618/lo_WCVB/1663432



(I wonder if local private investigators are getting heat from other police officers for catching one of the "own".)
Well, in Texas, if you catch a cop (like I did, a Chief of police), you get retaliation. I got false and tampered records sent to the state agency for peace officers and security officers.
It was just by an act of god I had ordered a copy of my records for my own keeping that I was able to prove I was setup.

[Terrance Pai -]

After reading this thread I realized the thing we are forgeting is how this Officer effected the community for the year he was on disablity. Where I come when a Police Officer or Deputy is on Disability the department is not allowed to hire a full time Officer to replace him. In larger departments this is little more tha an inconvenice. All they have to do is fill the position with an oncall Officer. However in smaller departments they do not have the recources to fill the position so they do the only thing they can do and run one man short. That means when the department needs 4 Officers on duty they only have 3. Now the department is not as effective in helping the community. By him being fired it alows the department to fill his spot.
I do not bring this up because I want to point fingers at this Officer and say He was moraly and ethically wrong and doing something illegal. That is for the courts to decide. What I did want to point out is everything we do effects alot of people sometimes in ways we never thought they would.

[Christian Udotai]

Establishing facts that provide evidence is the job of a good PI and this is exactly what the PI that caught Myers in action did. Excellent job.

[Katrina Burton Todd]

This cop should have been fired. The signs were there for a while with all of the disciplinary actions that he had acquired. He defiantly was not of moral character.

Katrina