Convicted? How to choose your "Resort" Cell.

[admin]

Because of the recent Martha Stewart charges, there is already talk of her conviction and serving a sentence in a "resort" cell.

Here is the organization that sets up such "alternative" sentencing plans for convicted felons:

http://66.165.94.98/images/nciahq.jpg
National Center on Institutions and Alternatives (NCIA) (http://www.ncianet.org/)

MISSION STATEMENT:
The mission of the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives (NCIA) is to help create a society in which all persons who come into contact with . . . correctional systems are provided an environment of individual care, concern and treatment.

NCIA is dedicated to developing quality programs and professional services that advocate timely intervention and unconditional care.
"Unconditional care"????

What about the victims who should have received unconditional care?

[Kathleen Padgett]

Resort cells? That's an interesting concept... doesn't seem to be an effective crime deterent to cater to "special" cases. Will Martha's cell (if convicted and sentenced) contain a customized kitchen, sewing room, laptop, etc. to accomodate her standard of living requirments? This would make great material for comics. Who foots the bill for this? taxpayers of course. Wish they would come up with better uses for some of our tax dollars that are wasted.

[William Brassfield]

Absurd! Isn't incarceration supposed to be an unpleasent experience? No wonder prisons are overflowing! :rolleyes:

[Sara E Pickett]

INCREDIBLE!!!
:confused:
Resort cells? I wonder how many of these criminals in "Resort Cells" are or will be considered at a higher standard of living
than many working class citizens.
Come on .. a resort like setting, three square meals a day, cable tv, access to computer and free education, free medical treatment....
YES that will really help the victims and families, and teach other would be criminals, to THINK about what they are doing before they commit that crime. What a system ! :rolleyes:

[Mary Fontaine]

Is this just for the rich and famous or can any run of the mill criminal apply?

Mary Anne Fontaine

[Hugh H Wilder -]

Is this just for the rich and famous or can any run of the mill criminal apply?

Mary Anne Fontaine



Mary Anne this is so disturbing I must joke a little so I don't get so mad!....

In a vote on the house and senate floor the new Golden Rule has passed with out even one descending vote. This new law is retroactive back to the 70's and is expected to be approved by the executive branch with out delay.

Golden Rule- Old version...

" Treat others as you would like (or as they would like) to be treated.

Golden Rule- New version...

He or she who has the "gold" makes all the "rules."

Fine print of luxury prison contract---

Note: We have had some problems with prisoners refusing to leave. It is important that you leave after your prescribed sentenced time- so that other privileged citizens in trouble can take advantage of this offer too! Offer only good while supplies last. MSRP includes medical, dental, college education, plush living arraignments, full eighteen hole golf course, and at least four tours per year to other resorts throughout the world. ;)

[Carl V Kowaleski]

Resort prisons are not the answer for "white collar" crime:mad: .But, restitution would be definately meaningful to me were I a victim. :) :) I must confess in a strange "devil's advocate" frame of mind I had wondered if the motavation for these resort-type prisons had been to keep a powerful criminal, as Martha Stewart, from harming anyone to cover up their crime. Perhaps their knowing that not to severe a penalty awaits them keeps them from committing even more terrible crimes:rolleyes: . But, to much mental speculation is a waste of time. And yet, one day the creators of such an institution would know people will question the fairness of a resort prison:confused:Today's news is Martha Stewart's webpage, part of her media hype to pressure the justice department.
The civil history of men might be traced by the successive meliorations as marked in higher moral generalizations; -virtue meaning physical courage, then chastity and temperance, then justice and love; -bargains of kings with peoples of certain rights to certain classes, then of rights to masses,-then at last came the day when, as the historians rightly tell, the nerves of the world were electrified by the proclamation that all men are born free and equal. Emerson

[May K. Toney]

Please tell me this is a joke. Can it be possible that all the media hype about "punishing criminals no matter what their status in life" is just an empty jesture?

I've already posted my comment that the media tends to report edited news as fact which often misleads the public. I haven't followed every detail of this story so I really don't know if Martha Stewart is guilty or not. But if she is, I agree that it's absolutely absurd to think that her punishment would be a prolonged stay in such a place as this - and at our expense! If this occurs, it would certainly crush my belief in this country's judicial system.

[Sara E Pickett]

May,

Thankyou for saying that. I concur and whole heartdly agree with you. If this is in fact true of our justice system then everyone
will loose except for the CRIMINALS :confused:

[Robert Smith -]

This is great, so what you're telling me is that I would live alot better if I commited a crime and got put into one of these people facilities. With this kind of commodity, why wouldn't you want to take advantage of this situation. I think that the people who come up with these ideas, have never been victims of any kind of crimes or have never known anyone who was victimized. What kind of lessons can be learned by criminals if they, basically, have hotel type stays, probably with room service and cable included.

[Chad Rapier -]

Wouldn't my standard of living be better at a place like this? Oh well, at least I have the unburdened concience of a working man (and I get to see my wife and kids more often). Once again we see the rights of the accused and sentanced to be more important than the rights of the victim.

[Mr Jose Bonavich Jr]

Hi everyone,

Just a question, are these "resort" prisons different from the federal low-security prisons??...The reason I ask is because my grandfather ( a bit of a rouge) was sentenced for tax-evasion and he went to a pretty cushy federal prison down in Texas (private room w/color t.v., no guards, no security fencing..basically you could walk out if you wanted)

Just curious. :)

[Byron Burke II]

It seems to me that these people who commit these types of crimes and are supposed to being punished. Yet they live better then the members of our Armed Forces who should be rewarded for the service they are giving to our society. Seems backwards to me.

[Michael Harris]

Coddle the perp and victimize the victim (repeatedly). :mad:

[Diane Jarosz]

I read the court cases that NCIA reported on their Web site.
I'm torn about NCIA.
Beings that we all think in "Parts." I have my "Parts" views. Part of me thinks there should be greater punishment for serious crimes. Ex: Frist degree murder. Another part of me would like to see compassion for lesser crimes aganist man punished in a more humane manner. Because...................
I do believe that some think of themselves of victims of their enviornment and play that hand.This is an easy way out of being productive human beings.
I, like many others in this world was a victim of my enviornment, but I wanted to be a better person in this world. I choose not to play that hand. It may be easier to stay a victim rather than improving one's self for so many reasons. But it is rewarding to rise above it all. Never forget where we came from. Remain humble in our lives due to past "enviornmental upbringing," I always keep in mind life is so fabulous, with so much to offer.
Some people don't know how to reach out and ask for help... and than there are others who don't know how to help no matter how hard they try or even how "responsible" they think they are in their aid towards others in trouble. There will always be failings in assisting other lesser fortunate people. "Every behavior has a reason." Finding out the reason behind behavior may be the key to unlocking secrets buried deep inside and than we may be more successful in helping convicted "criminals."
As far as Martha Stewart is concerned, if she goes to a "Resort Prison" but is helping others less fortunate than her. GOOD! As long as they can utiilize what they learn from her to become better human beings!
There is my "parts" view.

DJ

[Michael Harris]

I believe that the punishment should fit the crime. The lex talionis needs to be updated. The lex talionis is the biblical "an eye for an eye". It was an early attempt at making the punishment fit the crime.

I beleive that the punishments should be certain, without too much flexibility. This gives everyone a good idea what to expect.

I beleive that non-violent criminals should not be housed with violent criminals. I beleive that juveniles (in most cases) should be housed with other juveniles. I beleive that white-collar criminals should serve their tme with other non-violent criminals.

I also beleive that criminals have too many privileges. Incarceration, like all punishment, should be rehabilitative. I think that more community seervice and work release of first-time, non-violent offenders is in the best interest of all stakeholders.

I draw the line at 'prison resorts'. Check out the NCIA employment section. :(

[Michael Harris]

To All:

This is a response from one of my Criminal Justice Professors (Eric Thompson). I had sent the URL to both my professors and all the students. Here is Eric's response.


In many ways, the NCIA’s focus is similar to drug courts. Drug courts have evolved as a therapeutic solution to an overwhelming number of arrests of drug-involved offenders, which was a direct effect of a revived national effort to support a “War on Drugs.” Drug courts have proliferated over the last few years. One important impetus was the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which contained provisions calling federal support for the planning, implementation and enhancement of drug courts for nonviolent drug offenders. The drug court concept reflects an ideological shift from punishment to rehabilitation within a conservative criminal justice system.

Like the NCIA, drug court team members work to combine the goals of the criminal justice system with mental health services, education (vocational) services, and advocacy groups to meet the needs of each participant. Certainly there is a growing trend and willingness to provide the services to those who come into contact with the criminal justice system and make a concerted effort to remedy physical and social problems rather than relying on incarceration.

Are the resources spent on a combination of services worthwhile or are we just finding more ways to spend tax dollars faster.

What are your thoughts on the human services aspect of the criminal justice system? Is it the duty of the criminal justice system to solve physical addiction and mental health problems?


This last paragraph was an additional assignment for the class. We do our seminars in a chatroom environment and then do explicit discussion questions on the Message Board (like the IPIU forum). Food for thought.:) :D

[Corinne Pedriani--]

This is ridiculous! :mad: :mad: :mad:

First, let me say this to you, Diane: That was a skillfully worded statement and I agree. I also have my "parts".

I am torn, but only because I think we are way too easy on criminals. Unfortunately I can't say with a clear conscience how to deal out punishment across the board. Each person is different. It's hard to say, for instance, give a murderer the death penalty. Well, a person can say it, but go witness one and see if your opinion changes.BUT this is going too far. If a "pre-criminal" gets the idea that, the first time, they will only get a "slap on the wrist" what's to say this will not be enough to give them the final push? Then, once they're on the path, well, it's hard to turn back. I know that people are products of their environment and that (obviously) stupidity knows no "class" boundaries, but come on! If nobody teaches you that stealing or killing or doing drugs is bad, seek out the truth! If a person has any self-worth, they will discover these otherwise hidden (yeah, right) lessons on their own. The only exemption in my view is someone who is mentally ill. (or born addicted to drugs, you get my drift) This is a whole other ballgame. If a person knows the difference, and still commits the crime, they need to be punished. Maybe I should email NCIA with the definition of that word.

Now, the flip side. I remember learning in Criminal Psychology that crime is higher in areas where the punishment is more severe. It's like some "see how tough I am" syndrome. In addition, when someone faces the death penalty in an area, criminals have been known to travel to that area to commit a crime because of the "rush". As you can see, this poses a problem for me and my views. Is it possible that the crime rate would go up if a harsher system was enforced? I don’t know. Then I think of the homeless man who commits a crime just to have a warm place to sleep and a hot meal. I wonder if he can get into NCIA? Maybe? Does he have to have a coat and tie? Well I guess he can steal those and kill two birds with one stone. :(

Michael,
To your question, I have this to say: Yes. I believe our CJS does need to recognize the changes in our country, and adapt. It is a regrettable change, but to ignore these problems would be destructive. The CJS is in place to enforce laws and protect the public. These people can be a danger to themselves and to others. It's late, and this is the only analogy I can think of: If you have a remote control that takes one battery and it breaks beyond repair, you now have to buy the "new and improved" remote, but it takes two batteries. Well, you can't keep expecting it to work with only one battery. Use only one battery, and you get no results. You have to spend the extra money, buy another battery, and hope it works as well as your old remote.
Does this even make sense to anyone? :rolleyes:

I guess what I'm trying to say is they need to spend the extra money (because drug users and the mentally ill cost a little more to "help") and hope they get the results equal to that of a person without these problems, who costs a little less. ( but I'm STILL not saying they shouldn't be punished) The DU and the MI are two groups who don't fit the regular "criminal" bill, in my opinion. As for the DU that got themselves into their situation well, I have NO sympathy, but they're not going to stop just because I said that; (I don't think, anyway :rolleyes: ) however, they at least have a chance with rehabilitation.

I apologize If I have not been very PC.

[Michael Harris]

Corinne,

You do not have to apologize to me for not being PC. Being PC is one of the things that has caused the problems with our CJS.

This is the kind of material we are looking at right now in one of my CJ classes. I sent the NCIA URL to both my classes and professors. :) :D :cool:

[Carl V Kowaleski]

Originally posted by Corinne Pedriani
Now, the flip side. I remember learning in Criminal Psychology that crime is higher in areas where the punishment is more severe. It's like some "see how tough I am" syndrome. In addition, when someone faces the death penalty in an area, criminals have been known to travel to that area to commit a crime because of the "rush". As you can see, this poses a problem for me and my views. Is it possible that the crime rate would go up if a harsher system was enforced? I don’t know. Then I think of the homeless man who commits a crime just to have a warm place to sleep and a hot meal. I wonder if he can get into NCIA? Maybe? Does he have to have a coat and tie? Well I guess he can steal those and kill two birds with one stone. :(

Michael,
To your question, I have this to say: Yes. I believe our CJS does need to recognize the changes in our country, and adapt. It is a regrettable change, but to ignore these problems would be destructive. The CJS is in place to enforce laws and protect the public. These people can be a danger to themselves and to others. It's late, and this is the only analogy I can think of: If you have a remote control that takes one battery and it breaks beyond repair, you now have to buy the "new and improved" remote, but it takes two batteries. Well, you can't keep expecting it to work with only one battery. Use only one battery, and you get no results. You have to spend the extra money, buy another battery, and hope it works as well as your old remote.
Does this even make sense to anyone? :rolleyes:

I guess what I'm trying to say is they need to spend the extra money (because drug users and the mentally ill cost a little more to "help") and hope they get the results equal to that of a person without these problems, who costs a little less. ( but I'm STILL not saying they shouldn't be punished) The DU and the MI are two groups who don't fit the regular "criminal" bill, in my opinion. As for the DU that got themselves into their situation well, I have NO sympathy, but they're not going to stop just because I said that; (I don't think, anyway :rolleyes: ) however, they at least have a chance with rehabilitation.

I apologize If I have not been very PC. :cool: I took a criminal psychology class a few years ago. Really opened my eyes about defined psychopathic behavior. With a true psychopath rehabilitation efforts are used by them to mimic behaviors of well-adjusted persons. Usual rehabilitative methods serve only to aid the psychopath in fooling others and continuing their criminal behavior patterns. Psychologists relate the roots of psychopathic behavior to ADHD behavior in childhood, if this is diagnosed and treated effectively beginning in early childhood, the grief of tragic psychopathic crime could be decreased, so goes the story...<center>http://www.harrythecat.com/graphics/w/time1.gif </center>

[Michael Harris]

To All:

I prefer a structured sentencing system. One that lets everyone know what to expect when they committ a specific crime. The differences between individuals should have nothing to do with getting different sentences.

[Eric Christian 2]

I agrea with Michael. Each crime should have a specific punishment for all who commita crime.

British law influenced the structure of American courts and law back when this country was in it's infant stages.

Now that the United States has become a world power and even more advanced in many ways that the British, I think it's time that the court's structure and laws, which are several hundred years old, be updated.

That would mean that equal punishment for all could be considered a valid enhancement to the courts penal system.

That would be especially true because old European culture, which still dominates contemporary popular or mainstream culture, is based on the have and have not system. Those that have pay less for crimes than those that have not.

That old way of thinking is too old and too outdated. The criminals of today are not fictional dossile European gentlemen and women. They are real life attorneys, doctors, and entertainers, as well as narcotics dealers, murderes, car thieves, and bank robbers.

Equal punishment for each specific crime for everyone who commits a crime is the only way to go.

[Michael Harris]

Eric,

There were progressive thinkers in Europe in the 1700s who thought that every law should be written so that all could understand it. And they felt that the punishment for each crime should have a fixed punishment. That way the would-be perpetrators could weigh the fixed punishment against the potential payoff of the crime and decide that it was not worth it.

Now, a person convicted of first degree murder can serve as little as 3 1/2 years or as much as a death sentence. That does not sound like justice to me. Pick a reasonable sentence and give it to everyone (plus or minus a very small amount).

[Colleen L Hayes -]

I might be a little off on this but, if they are treated to the 'niceties of a resort cell', what makes the legal system think they won't do it again when they are released.

What gives them the right to decide why people with a name and money are treated differently than those who have neither. Or better yet, why should they not go to our over crowded prisons and let the inmates close to being released use the 'resort cell' for the rest of their stay.

This is appalling.
:mad:

[Michael Harris]

Colleen,

I agree with you. Why would a felon avoid a second trip to a 'resort'. There is no incentive to avoid incarceration. One of my criminal justice professors has a different view, but no one in the class believed it.

I do make a distinction in the way pepole should be treated in prison. The firts-time, non-violent ofender should be given a chance at rehabilitation, probation, or parole. Let the repeat offenders and the violent criminals suffer a little.

[Mary Louise Campbell -]

Isn't there something wrong with this picture?:confused:

So what's next? Her stocks will probably go up, she'll teach the other prisoners how to bake cookies, plant flowers and make the right color selections for their bedrooms.

Sounds like she's really going to be punished.:eek:


Mary

[Michael Harris]

Mary,

If your comments are about Martha Stewart, that could be a wonderful thing for society. Her teaching could keep the other inmates occupied and out of trouble.

One of the problems with prisons is that there is nothing to keep the inmates occupied and non-violent. :rolleyes: ;) :p

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

Michael,

May I know your opinion about Martha Stewart before media unveiled the case?

Dragos

[Michael Harris]

Dragos,

That is a fair question.

Before Martha became involved with the securities' crimes, I had no strong opinion of her.

Martha seemed to be a very successful business person, capitalizing on her skills in decorating, cooking, etc. I had read that she was not a good neighbor - shooting before and after the agreed-upon hours - which bothered her neighbors. I felt this was a bad sign, but I had no real interest. The stories of her romantic life were that, just stories (weird stories!!!).

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

Michael,

Neither I had a strong opinion about her.

I was told many times that she was a kind person, a cooking & gardening "Mother Theresa" like. Definitely, you do not have to make (strong) opinions in "chit-chat" parties.

[Tina M Phillips]

Well, what do we expect, folks!! :mad

If the average joe was convicted and sentenced, he'd end up under the jail. When it comes to celebrities, it seems as though they have paid their dues to society (with their bank accounts and status) and this permits them better priviledges than others.

I have never understood how a person can use money for comfort from a prison cell. There's got to be a law against this.

I only know that in California, a celebrity can not pay someone off and settle it out of court; they now must stand trial. But I don't want to start another topic here.

There must be a plan for changing the laws regarding special treatment for celebrity or millionaire convictions.

[Michael Harris]

Tina,

There is another way of looking at this. If the rich and famous are convicted, they work to improve prison conditions for all.

Is this far-fetched? You tell me. We can all hope.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

Michael,

I think it would be difficult. Taking into account the approx. 2-million jailed population, this alternative could cost as much as three Irak wars.

[Michael Harris]

Dragos,

Actually, I believe that we give the average prisoner far too many comforts.

I got a great deal of grief for my views in my CJ classes.

[Mary A Young -]

I do have to chime in here on the Martha Stewart situation.

It bothers me that in the case of celebrities, we tend to convict them before the courts do via the media. That is NOT the American way. But it also bothers me that justice tends to be in alignment with what kind of defense you can afford.

Martha Stewart claims that all she did was phone her broker and ask him to put in a stop on her stock at $60. When that is done, if the price drops below $60, she is out. I am a daytrader and this is common practice. In fact, its key to successful money management. There is absolutely nothing criminal in that.

Obviously the question is "did she do that based on something she was told by her friend, Sam Wacksel?". In the trial, we will hear the evidence.

Insider trading goes on a lot more than most people realize. And most of it is never caught. If a janitor is cleaning and overhears a conversation about a new contract on a publicly traded company, and then he goes and calls his broker to buy stock in that company, technically, my understanding is that this is insider trading. He heard it from a company official. That official is an insider.

This is an important case even without the high profile people. The issue of insider trading has come into many gray areas. This will give the courts the opportunity to more clearly define it.

All my humble opinion, however

Mary

[Michael Harris]

Mary,

I agree. Martha Stewart (and Rush Limbaugh) were guilty in the media because of who they are. The media ruins too many trials.

We should wait for the trial to find out what really happened with Martha. I always felt that she was set up.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

Mary,

Your insight into "Inside Trading" opens a new path of the debate. In this respect I remember "12 Furious Men" and Henry Fonda.

By the way, I consider your opinion not at all as humble. :cool:

[Michael Harris]

Mary/Dragos,

Insider trading is one of those gray crimes. Some of it is clearly black & white, but I imagine that most of it is gray. The gray is what makes or breaks a prosecutor's career.

[Tina M Phillips]

Originally posted by Michael Harris
Tina,

There is another way of looking at this. If the rich and famous are convicted, they work to improve prison conditions for all.

Is this far-fetched? You tell me. We can all hope.


Michael,

It's just a I see your point. We wouldn't want them to dirty their nails though, would we? tad bit far-fetched.:)

[Tina M Phillips]

Originally posted by Mary A Young
I do have to chime in here on the Martha Stewart situation.

It bothers me that in the case of celebrities, we tend to convict them before the courts do via the media. That is NOT the American way. But it also bothers me that justice tends to be in alignment with what kind of defense you can afford.

Insider trading goes on a lot more than most people realize. And most of it is never caught. If a janitor is cleaning and overhears a conversation about a new contract on a publicly traded company, and then he goes and calls his broker to buy stock in that company, technically, my understanding is that this is insider trading. He heard it from a company official. That official is an insider.

This is an important case even without the high profile people. The issue of insider trading has come into many gray areas. This will give the courts the opportunity to more clearly define it.

All my humble opinion, however

Mary

Mary,

You have some really good points here. Did she know what she was doing? Was it for gain? Like you said, we'll see in the evidence.

And I agree that we and the media judge or convict them much sooner than average people.

I appreciate your opinion and knowledge of inside trading. It makes a different in how you look at it. We just don't know yet what her intentions really were.