Small Army of Private Investigators Hired by Hard Hit Retailers

[Sara Livingston]

Hard-hit retailers like Brooks Brothers, Gap, Ann Taylor and other highly sought labels have hired a small army of private investigators to stem their losses.

The Crime:

Several mornings a week, a small group of men and women gather at a spot under the Roosevelt Ave. el in Queens and pile into a van for a shopping trip to the suburbs.

But they are not just your everyday bargain hunters.

Making their way to Westchester County and then through the sprawling malls of northern New Jersey, they enter stores and steal all the designer labels they can get their hands on.

Mostly South American immigrants, they are the foot soldiers in a burgeoning black-market trade in shoplifted goods that has swept the city in the past year, causing retailers millions of dollars in losses.

Welcome to the world of New York's shoplifting gangs.

Within hours, the stolen clothes - minus their security tags - will stock the shelves of storefronts in Corona, Queens, and Washington Heights at deep discounts.

And it's not just clothes.

With the help of the Internet, thefts of pharmaceuticals - mostly over-the-counter drugs and shaving accessories - have turned even bigger profits.

Detectives staking out a Corona storefront last year at first assumed the vast stash of stolen clothes inside had come from warehouse thefts. But the daily march of thieves walking up to the door suggested otherwise.

"At first I thought it was all cargo stuff," said city Detective Carmen Figueroa. "But then we saw them coming in with two bags, three bags ..."

One state trooper, who helped bust one of the nation's biggest fencing operations here, said thieves he's arrested swear that retail shoplifting rings are "the wave of the future."

They're onto a lucrative business. Shoplifting losses nationally peaked at $10.2 billion last year - up from $8.5 billion two years before. Cops and private security experts estimate the annual take in the New York area could be in the tens of millions.

Retail theft now costs the average family of four $440 a year in higher prices, thanks to increased security costs to prevent shoplifting, according to a survey of 118 major retailers by researchers at the University of Florida.

Detectives stunned:

"We've never come out of one of these fencing locations with less than $150,000 in stolen product," said Detective Sgt.

Francis Murnane of the NYPD's major case squad. "And it's always current stuff. It's stuff that's just hit the market."

The sheer volume of shoplifted goods that has turned up in New York fencing locations over the past year has stunned veteran detectives such as Murnane, who are used to chasing down cargo thieves.

More than $500,000 in shoplifted designer clothes - Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren and Gap - were seized from a Corona storefront in May. Three months later, members of the Queens North anti-crime unit hauled an additional $277,000 in hot brand-name clothes out of a location blocks away.

A raid on another fencing operation last year turned up as much as $3.5 million in shoplifted pharmaceuticals at one location.

In January, the NYPD seized $750,000 in stolen over-the-counter drugs at three wholesalers in Brooklyn and Queens. One New York fence recently bragged to an undercover officer that last year he did more than $25 million in business trafficking in shoplifted pharmaceuticals.

But these are only isolated snapshots of the shoplifting scene. In a year, each of these fencing operations turns over millions of dollars in goods.

"They can make more money, and it's a lot easier than breaking into houses and stealing VCRs," said Pennsylvania State Trooper Barry Harvey.

Criminal penalties serve as little deterrent. Even multiple offenders are sentenced to probation.

Lou Granda, former head of loss prevention at Brooks Brothers and now an executive with Metro One Loss Prevention Group in Staten Island, works with police to identify fencing locations.

"They'll even take special orders," Granda said. "You go in one day and ask for a 43 large, and it's there in two days at 50% off the retail price."

Wanna bargain? How about a $45 Brooks Brothers shirt for $13? Or a $160 Ann Taylor dress for $30? Both could be had at storefronts in Queens taken down by the NYPD.

"It's a woman's dream," said Figueroa.

All in a day's work

The day laborers in these operations are recent immigrants from Ecuador, Peru and Colombia, most of whom live in Corona and neighboring Jackson Heights and Elmhurst.

They are hardworking. In recent years, police up and down the Interstate 95 corridor, from Conway, N.H., to Fairfax, Va. - and as far away as Los Angeles - have arrested shoplifters with Corona addresses.

Contact among individual shoplifters and the gangs who supply the vans is strictly word-of-mouth. Efforts by police to link bands of thieves in a Mafia-style leadership hierarchy have been fruitless.

Thieves work with one gang one day and another the next, depending on who's available. They can make $200 to $300 for a day's work.

Outfitted with foil-lined booster bags to evade microwave anti-theft devices, they go into stores and snatch up what they can.

At the end of the day, their take is delivered to mom-and-pop clothing stores in Washington Heights or hideaway rooms in Queens apartments, where workers in back rooms remove security tags with the same devices used by retailers.

The Daily News visited several known fencing locations in Queens and Manhattan recently and found owners fearful of the same shoplifters who help fuel their trade. In several spots, customers have to be buzzed inside. Mounted on walls are closed-circuit television monitors trained on racks of designer clothes to catch shoplifters.

The epicenter of the stolen clothing trade is Corona.

"Corona is the black market capital for fenced stolen clothes," Murnane said.

His squad - as well as Sgt. Nelson Quinones, a Washington Heights-based detective who has arrested hundreds of fences and shoplifters - has made dozens of arrests there.

Among the biggest clothing fences arrested last year was Luis Baez, the former owner of Mundo Fashions in the heart of Corona's shopping district.

Cops seized more than $500,000 in stolen clothing from Baez's second-floor operation, where employees worked the back rooms removing plastic anti-theft strips from clothes.

Baez pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three years' probation in September.

The real money's in Tylenol, toiletries & the Net

Shoplifting rings are generating their biggest profits ripping off pharmacies.

Over-the-counter drugs, health and beauty aids (news - web sites), razors and film. All are easy-to-steal favorites that are being repackaged for sale in mom-and-pop stores or, lately, over the Internet.

"The Internet is the world's biggest flea market," said King Rogers, the retired vice president of asset protection for Target, who now consults with businesses on how to defeat shoplifters. "When you see ads that say you don't need a doctor's prescription, that's the first clue."

In April 2002, at a warehouse in New Jersey owned by a Long Island businessman, state investigators seized more than $3.5 million in shaving gear, glucose strips, painkillers and other shoplifted items. Much of it was being offered for sale online.

Investigators seized another $104,500 in cash from a Brooklyn businessman named Martin Einhorn, who happened to turn up at the warehouse carrying a bag of cash just as state troopers were taking inventory of the stolen goods.

Court documents filed by the New Jersey attorney general say Einhorn negotiated some $400,000 in corporate checks from accounts linked to the warehouse operators.

That cash went to pay the owners of a number of grocery stores in inner-city Philadelphia who put out the word to shoplifters that Tylenol, or Rogaine, the hair-growth formula, were in demand, police and court documents say.

Glucose test strips used by diabetics (news - web sites) that typically sell for $60 to $80 would go for $30. After delivering the goods in return for cash payments, the thieves would walk a few blocks to cop heroin in north Philadelphia.

At the North Bergen warehouse, the goods were repackaged and sold to legitimate distributors across the country or on www.shavethis.com, formerly operated by the owner of the warehouse, Martin Powers, according to law enforcement officials.

In a back room, investigators found lighter fluid, heat guns and alcohol used to strip labels off the products, a source said.

Powers and Einhorn have denied the allegations. Neither has been arrested, but authorities say the investigation continues. A similar operation was broken up in January by detectives from the Bronx's 46th Precinct.

Items stolen by junkies and full-time shoplifters at Duane Reade and other city drugstores were taken to wholesalers in Brooklyn and Queens, where illegal immigrants peeled off price tags and repackaged them.

Five people - each working the planning and organizational end of the operation - were arrested.

Suspected fence Abe Lefkowitz allegedly paid an undercover officer $2,400 for $3,000 worth of razors and pharmaceuticals from Pepcid AC to anti-fungal cremes the officer delivered to his Williamsburg, Brooklyn, business in November.

Cops also nabbed Mazen Alromhein, a Syrian immigrant who police say agreed to pay an undercover officer $1,296 for delivering $3,000 worth of pharmaceuticals provided by Duane Reade to his Brooklyn business in October.

Alromhein said he believed he was dealing with an employee of a legitimate broker he had dealt with before. "I've been set up," he said. "I'd worked with this company before."

He's more careful now. "You can't buy anything without an invoice," Alromhein said. "They send me invoices. I wire them the money."

[Robert Smith -]

It is very interesting, yet scary, to know how much of a loss there is in the retail business every year. It makes it even worse to know that the losses seem to go up more and more evey year. As an ex-retail manager and employee, though, I know that it is very difficult to catch every one that steals or shoplifts from the store. The very few that you do catch, though, like in this article, only get light sentences, and for that reason, why would anyone want to stop if they are just basicly going to get slapped on the hand and sent home. In my opinion, the retail losses are going to continue to keep rising, making for some very expensive shopping for the rest of the world, and really the only way I can see this changing is if the goverment enforces stricter penalties for this type of crime. Then those that are caught are going to be less likely to jump right back into it again, also they need to be responsible for paying a percentage of the total losses over the years to these retail chains. This will also get the word out to all of the accomplices that they work for and slow things down in the shoplifting world. But that is just my opinion.

[Zoraya Marroquin]

if the goverment enforces stricter penalties for this type of crime. Then those that are caught are going to be less likely to jump right back into it again, also they need to be responsible for paying a percentage of the total losses over the years to these retail chains.

You are absolutely right, Robert. I agree.

[Robert Smith -]

Thanks Zoraya,

At least I know that I am not the only one that feels this way about this. Now if we could only get some government officials to see things the way we do, this crime might start to decline a little.

[Mary Goss]

Shoplifting puts such a financial crunch on retailers. To offset their fianancial loss they have to raise prices just to stay afloat. In the end we all end up paying for these criminals.

[Walter C. Smith--]

How much of the mass shoplifting is going on in the smaller metropolitan areas? I am tired of paying $440 a year for other people to make money illegally. Are there any retail seminars that store personnel can attend that could cut this total down. Even new private investigators need to be aware of such training.

[Zoraya Marroquin]

if we could only get some government officials to see things the way we do, this crime might start to decline a little.It might be possible. For starters, more people would have to be involved. Maybe by writing letters to magazines, the local newspaper, even the government officials. Make it be heard that this is an important issue.There's nothing to lose. The worse that can happen is that they disregard the letters. The best thing that can happen, is that they take it into consideration, which may lead to positive action. :)

Anything is Possible!:D

[LaVaughn Bennett]

I work in retail and let me tell you it seems that the shoplifter almost has more "rights" then you do. If I catch a shoplifter the first thing I need to do is see the product they are stealing, and also watch where they put it. Then we follow them around to see if they haven't stashed it somewhere in the store. Once they leave the store then I can approach them with mall security and say to them "Would you like to pay for the red shirt you put in your left coat pocket?" If I happen to be wrong they can turn around and sue me for slander. The other sad thing is stores I've worked for will not prosecute if it's under a certain dollar amount.
LaVaughn

[Mary Goss]

Can you believe it actually costs the retailers more to prosecute if the item is under a certain dollar amount? I am sure the retailers would love to see the shoplifter pay his/her dues but until something drastically changes the shoplifter is home free while the retailer is working to make up the loss.

[Carolynne Giffoni -]

The shoplifting problem is horrific !!! I managed stores of major retail chains for over 15 years and I watched the problem increase drastically. (I got out of retail in 2000). One of the most offensive acts that would occur were the "hit & runs". The guilty party would place a stash within running distance of the door and when his partner alerted him that eyes were diverted elsewhere they simply dashed for the door and in most cases got away with it. I had to go to court a few times because our cameras had filmed it, and the people got identified. Those were the exceptions though. And yes, the problem continues, unfortunately for all of us who pay the higher prices.

Carolynne

[Walter C. Smith--]

Lowe's is advertising for Loss Control Managers and Specialists. They want to protect against shop lifting and in store theft. I am interested in getting training information to combat this type of problem. I have worked with a cash rejister repair person who told me many ways that a clerk can steal from putting the cash register into a training mode, which will not add the total to the talley or print a receipt, to a manger and a clerk adding their own check out line costing the company almost $300,000.

[Kathleen Padgett]

The retail losses and impact to consumers figures are shocking. There seems to be a constant increase in new 00000 popping up which is terrible news for consumers, individuals facing identity theft consequences, etc. But it does create new, interesting and challenging assignments, as well as variety and growth opportunities for PI's. At least there's always a brighter side. New problems often pose new opportunities for many.

[Walter C. Smith--]

There are a few things that I would like to tell you that I have know about and what happened:
1. A friend who worked on cash registers was called to a hotel by loss control personnels of a major retail store. He was asked what could be done to the "five" cash registers to allow a $250,000 loss in 6 Months? He told them that there were "six" cash registers. The manager and one clerk were the only ones who used the sixth cash register and it was removed when officials were to visit. Moral: Randomly check for differences.
2. If you ever find that you do not get a receipt, ask for one or report that fact to the manager. If most cash registers are put into a training mode, no receipt or addition to tile occurs.

[Kathleen Padgett]

Walter,

Thanks for the info, very interesting stuff. Good to know extra things to look out for.

Kathie

[Carolynne Giffoni -]

Walter,

Although the example of the 6th cash register is valid in smaller operations, it normally couldn't happen in a large structure like Lowes except under EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES. Registers put into training mode are still monitored and "times in use" collected on the main system whose access is limited to the General Mgr and a few key personnel. Each night a print out is generated and the "in house" Loss Prevention person reviews it. If it is missed at this level, it has been transmitted to Corporate nightly with other data, and the Loss Prevention pros scan over the transactions to catch patterns etc. It is highly unusual for such a situation to continue for very long. In cahoots with a manager a clerk may get away with something for a while, but not long. Also the manager is just a floor manager or dept manager that would be on the tills.....not the General Mgr. who oversees the entire operation.

An incompetent General Mgr might miss something, but again, that's the exception since the training involved in reaching that level covers most scenarios and inventories showing huge losses certainly weed out those GM's that aren't alert.

An example from my own experience: I had 3 assistant managers that took turns closing my large retail location that closed at midnight. I normally left around 7pm. Over a period of two weeks I noticed that the rear door which wasn't to be opened after 8pm.....was opened around 11pm once a week. This was all monitored electronically and a report generated that only I had access to (as well as corporate). I noted that it was the same closing manager. I placed a call to our Loss Prevention Manager at corporate and they staked out the back the next night that this manager was closing and caught him placing merchandise out the back door for his friend to load into a van.
He was apprehended and charged with theft.

I could have asked this manager why he was opening the door, but that would have alerted him. Even though he had a key to disarm the alarm temporarily, he was unaware that it was still monitored. I considered this manager to be loyal......but found out otherwise. No one is my friend that puts my job in jeopardy so I followed corporate procedure. We eliminated a bad apple.
Loss Prevention already had it on their "watch list" so all I did was expedite it. There is always someone trying to beat the system.....and always new detection devices put into service.
The first week I noticed it, I hoped it was an error. The second week I took action.

Just food for thought......:D:D

Carolynne

[Walter C. Smith--]

Do you know anything about what it takes to get connected with Lowe for Loss Prevention Specialists and Managers? I have hit brick walls trying to get to them in North Carolina.

[Carolynne Giffoni -]

I believe that the head Corporate office is in Joplin, Missouri.
Have a friend that is a District Mgr. with them and I believe he was based at corporate there before getting transferred elsewhere. You might try writing to the Corporate office with a query.

Carolynne

[May K. Toney]

Good evening One and All.
I used to work with some of the store chains mentioned here though not in the Loss Prevention area. I can't share specific information, but I'm morbidly aware of the theft problem and how it's grown year to year.

My first thought was that security cameras would reduce this problem and increase the retail bottom line. Unfortunately, what I've discovered is that the cameras are often placed only in high risk areas. That leaves quite a lot of area in which the skilled thief can confiscate merchandise. Worse yet, is the fact that the rights of the criminals are drastically disproportionate with the rights of their victims.


If I happen to be wrong they can turn around and sue me for slander. The other sad thing is stores I've worked for will not prosecute if it's under a certain dollar amount.

This fact was discussed in another forum concerning Loss Prevention. The fact that vendors don't prosecute for items under a certain dollar amount confirms that many retailers don't realize that these items add up over time. And we pay the bill.

I must admit that I never wondered why getting a receipt was such a big deal. Thanks for enlightening me.

[Edwina Berlijn -]

In your Private Investigators Catalog, they advertice a book on "Shoplifting and employee theft investigation" by Burt Rapp, cost $14.95 It says and I quate"....This book is for the retailer who genuinely wants to cut his losses from shoplifting and employee theft. It is also for the security manager whose task is to reduce his employer's lossses . And it is a practical guide for the security guard, the lowest person down the security line,who is at the cutting edge." It has 172 pp, illustrated and it has a soft cover.

I thought it might be interested for those out there who might would like to reas this book. You can email to order the book

Hopes this will help somebody,

edwina berlijnemail :books@ipiu.org

[Robert Smith -]

I agree with everyone here about this subject, and the inquiries are really good. The biggest problem however, as was stated earlier in another persons statement, that retail chains only prosecute on certain dollar amounts. This is a problem, because even hundreds of small dollars thefts can put a company out of business just as a large dollar theft can. Yes, the shoplifting community does seem to have alot more rights than any other person. The bad thing about this, is that the professional shoplifter knows about these rights and will push those on any one who tries to catch them stealing. Even amature shoplifters have some kind of knowledge of these rights. The worse thing that could have ever been done, is to go public with the rights allowed to shoplifters. I really disagree with some of these rights, and I really dislike the fact that you can't stop anyone from stashing merchandise in thier pockets or purses or where ever they hide the merchandise until they get past the registers or outside. This makes it very difficult to be certain that the merchandise is still on the person, and we all know the outcome of falsly occusing an individual and how damaging it can be. I will be the first to admit, that because of the suing and damages that are very likely to be done, because of the rights, I have probably let a good share of shoplifters go, just because of that certainty, and not knowing for sure that they didn't throw the merchandise somewhere or give it to another person. Because of the laws that protect these individuals and the very serious after affects that it can have on a manager or any other person that works in the retail business, it's really not to hard to see why the shoplifting losses are so high and just keep continuing to grow year to year.

[Carolynne Giffoni -]

Robert,

There are reputable, well known companies that will procecute no matter how small the shoplifting dollar amount is. I have personally managed a few of them over the years and I am certainly heartened that they at least are doing their part. To give an example of two.....Radio Shack and Blockbuster.
Yes, some of the much larger chains that I went on to manage do set a dollar amount and it was frustrating that even having film footage some of the larger chains simply don't take it further than to bar a person from their establishments.
Hopefully the larger chains will wake up and see that they hurt the system by not helping to erradicate the problem.

Carolynne

[LaVaughn Bennett]

My big problem in retail right now with summer here is passing bad travelers checks. We have been alerted to this problem and are aware and watching.

[Kathleen Padgett]

That's a good point, travelers checks are likely much easier to counterfeit than US currency is. Another good tip to look out for.

[Edwina Berlijn -]

Yes, I believe that the travelers checks are really the best way to go. I had an experiance in Nepal...and the company gave me the money, to replace the check.

edwina berlijn

[May K. Toney]

Originally posted by Edwina Berlijn
In your Private Investigators Catalog, they advertice a book on "Shoplifting and employee theft investigation" by Burt Rapp, cost $14.95 It says and I quate"..I thought it might be interested for those out there who might would like to reas this book. You can email to order the book. Hopes this will help somebody, edwina berlijnemail :books@ipiu.org

Thank you for the tip, Edwina. I'm sure this book will help a great many people...starting with me! Enjoy the Day!

[Walter C. Smith--]

Robert,
Where can I find a list of the "Rights of a Shoplifter"? I have not seen them and I might apply too much force and violate their rights.

[Joyce Gilliland]

You did a beautiful job writting a brief yet appropriatly detailed article! Your points relfect what those of us in the security industry have know for a long time. Now the question may be how to make our "buisness" practices and goals obviously complimentary to those of law enforcement.

Please keep adding posts about this topic. It is good to be reminded of the aray of road blocks we face.

[Chad Rapier -]

Having been in retail management, it amazes me how many businesses are willing to budget a certain amount per year towards losses rather than using the same funds toward prevention.

That being said, I can probably answer my own question. Having helped aprehend shoplifters on multiple occasions, I must admit that it is nearly impossible to follow normal company guidelines that allow an employee to stop a shoplifter. And if you stop someone and cannot prove that they shoplifted, you might as well kiss your job goodbye. I think most employees fear losing their jobs if they do something wrong, but see minimal personal benefit for taking the chance to stop a shoplifter.

The answer isn't easy, but retailers need to make it beneficial for the comapny and the employee to stop a shoplifter. Otherwise, it isn't worth the personal risk, and employees will continue to turn the other way and let it happen. Or worse yet, join in themselves.

[Michael Harris]

The only bright spot in this is that home buglaries are not going up. From a personal perspective, I would rather face shopling costs than home invasion.

Lucrative business opportunity for entrprising PIs. :rolleyes:

[Diane Jarosz]

Years ago I worked in the garment industry. We were sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of "Wanna Be's"
Our company unaware the merchandise was illegal got caught up in a sting effort headed by the FBI. The investigation only took six months to crack. The FBI got their ring of bandits.
Six months may sound long to some, but I thought it was swift.
The FBI did a great job.
As far as the boot-leg clothing our company purchased? No return on the money spent!
This was back in 1979.
The garment industry is full of thieves and spies!
Tuff business it is still today.
DJ

[Michael Harris]

Diane,

The six-month operationyou mention seems long until we remember that many investigations take two or more years.

It is not always easy being the good guys . :eek: :o

[Julia Ann Stewart]

Originally posted by Diane Jarosz
Years ago I ...DJ
(Diane, this is off-topic and personal. I just received an email from web support that they can no longer send you provate emails because of the spam-blocker you are using at earthlink.net . This can be a serious issue for future assignments and email help. )

Copy of what web support received when trying to email you:


From: automated-response@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Re: can' get to...............
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:51:53 -0700

This is an automatic reply to your email message to ******@earthlink.net

This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for ******@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of allowed senders.

Click the link below to request that usonly@earthlink.net add you to this list.

https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=usonly@earthlink.net&id=19Kep2xC3NZF


You may also wish to change to a lifetime free email at www.yahoo.com , which is endorsed by IPIU. If you ever change your earthlink access, you will lose all of your earthlink email privileges, unlike having a free yahoo email for life.

[Diane Jarosz]

Dear Julia,

I turned my spam blocker to "off." This should alleviate the problem.

Thank you for telling me about the "Spam Blocker" and also the "personal" info.

Diane

[Michael Harris]

Good Morning Diane,

I had similar trouble with a 'spam blocker' before I joined IPIU. I had to delete it to function.:(

I also have trouble with McAfee Personal Firewall.:( :mad:

They sell the software to protect you, but they mess up too much other stuff. :) :D :cool:

[Diane Jarosz]

Thanks Michael!

[Jeffrey R. Pedrotti -]

You said that even the repeat offender gets off easy.Well that seems to be the problem.We need to start getting tough on crime here in the U.S.The problem is we have earned a reputation as easy on criminals,so all the criminals can't wait to come over here and make their living as a thief!Why do you think we have such a problem with Police Brutality?The cops get tired of chasing these guys for tireless hours only for the courts to put them back on the street.As Investigators we all need to work together and push for tough crime laws and elect representatives who have been tough on crime,otherwise what good is our work of Investigating if the courts don't prosecute??:(

[Michael Harris]

Jeffrey,

I do not know if you have read anything about Justice Kennedy. He says that Federal minimum prison terms are wrong -- they are way too long. He wants to change the law.:mad:

When did the courts take over writing law?:confused: My copy of the US Constitution does not say that judges can write law, but they do! :( :mad:

[Sylvia Buetow]

Now I can see the importance of some of the mystery shop questions I have to answer.
How many cash registers?
Receipt?
Cash drawer closed?
I was really puzzled by the "How many cash registers" question.

[Glenn N Klipp]

I guess I am a naive person. I had no idea it was so widespread as to actually include gangs. I always thought it was just one person shoplifting. I guess part of the thing about being a private investigator is that you get to see the sordid underbelly of humanity. How does one see this, and not allow himself or herself to become jaded or cycnical.

[Carlita Silva]

This really gets me upset. I've worked in retail and I understand the need to prosecute shoplifters the unfortunate side is that living on a island where prison cells is a huge problem due to limited space these shoplifters get off to easy and as a tax payer we can complain all we want but we still end up covering the losses somehow. On the bright side it gives PI's work to keep control in the stores and pray that the more we catch them the more likely that potential shoplifters will think twice.

[Karen Kiely]

I have been a Loss Prevention Detective in three very large chain stores. In all three there are "The Rules of 5".

#1 I had to observe the subject as he/she approached the merchandise that belonged to what ever store I was working in.

#2 I then had to observe he/she select the stores mdse.

#3 I then had to observe the person conceal the merchandise.

#4 I had to maintain a visual contact of the "pocket", Purse, or where ever the mdse was concealed making sure the subject didn't hand over the mdse to someone else or stash it. This visual contact had to be unbroken until the subject passed the last line of payment without paying for the mdse.

#5 I then had to wait until the subject pasted the first doorway to the outside, or some stores want to wait until the subject passes the last door. I then could make my apprehension.

If any one of these rules were broken the subject could sue us.

There is also a price point below which we could not apprehend said subject.

There is an age barrier both below and above that we could not apprehend. Anyone below the age of 18 had to be termed a minor. Anyone below an age that the store sets had to be let go. Anyone over the age of 70 had to be let go. If someone aged 71 stole $5,000. worth of mdse we had to let the person go after recovering the goods.

One super large chain store has cameras aimed only on the registers. (Most shoplifting is done by employees.) The round glass globes situated throughout the store are phoney.

Some stores have absolutely NO cameras unless there is a problem we had to monitor, and we then put up a covert camera.

One large chain store has a security manager who refuses to go out on the floor (when no other detectives are on duty) and tells the associates who call him to alert him to a shoplifter, that he is too busy to go out on the floor.

If we were lucky enough to apprehend a subject, there are so many rules and regulations we had to follow that it consumed at least an hour after the person left. Of course we then had to go to court if need be, and believe me I was delighted to go to court and get the subject convicted.

It is one of the hardest things to do to get a "good" apprehention. If we got a "BAD" apprehention, (not following the rules) then we were fired. END OF STORY! Thank goodness I never got a bad app.

The stores also don't want to offend their customers by implamenting some more stringent rules for the customers to follow. Most of those stores are the larger better known stores. To those stores I say "Shame on you!"

I am all for making the punishment a little harder, and maybe some day it will happen.

It also is up to the stores to increase their budgets for loss prevention personel.

:rolleyes:

[Katerina Zahirovic Marinovic]

Originally posted by Jeffrey R. Pedrotti
You said that even the repeat offender gets off easy.Well that seems to be the problem.We need to start getting tough on crime here in the U.S.The problem is we have earned a reputation as easy on criminals,so all the criminals can't wait to come over here and make their living as a thief!Why do you think we have such a problem with Police Brutality?The cops get tired of chasing these guys for tireless hours only for the courts to put them back on the street.As Investigators we all need to work together and push for tough crime laws and elect representatives who have been tough on crime,otherwise what good is our work of Investigating if the courts don't prosecute??:(

I agre one hundred procentand I am glad that people see that and talking of it,but still law is make to make those people who makim them rich.Think of this and you will se what I am saying.Unfortunately it is not only USA and it will never be innaf investigators to chase that many thiefs and criminals,but may be worth it to cach even couple. See this old saying "It's not morning until is not dark to someone else,Lawyer will not get paid if they dont have people to breach the law and we will not be payed if we don't chase them too.

[James L Parmenter -]

I am new to the PI world, in training now, I've worked at retail stores in sales, i've watched shoplifters come in, steal and walk out. I've talked with the managers and assistant managers about it, and they say "just let em go"! "If we stop them they come back after hours and destroy the store front or retalliate in other means". I can't believe the actions of these people letting shoplifters run amuck doing what they want and not being sought after....the larger chain stores like Wal-Mart, etc., do apprehend their shoplifters as they have cameras and security personnel watching, theives are video taped. Small mom and pop stores here are ripped off everyday and many are held up or experience rashes of gas drive offs.....The laws on the books for these crimes are way too lienient (spelling?) and should be changed from misdemeanor's to criminal.............

[Michael Harris]

James,

I am with you in feeling shocked by the way some store managers react to shoplifters.

There is just too much shrinkage (shoplifting and pilferage) in most retail stores. This drives up the cost of goods for all of us.

The question that arises is how can we (as a society) encourage store managers to get tough with shoplifters? Do shoplifters really come back and vandalize stores that prosecute them? I would like to see the statistics on this one.

[Gunnard Lundberg]

The real bottom line is who ends up paying for shoplifting. All of us, a judge or lawmaker should think about that when they shop. I know most stores big and small role that into their prices as they mark items up. The bigger the problem the more we pay. They know the bottom line and how much they should make from their inventory in and the inventory out. Food stores (ie) safeway, albertsons and retail stores charge an amount each month for lost and stolen carts. Just my two cents :cool:

[Gilberto Rodriguez-*]

I have just a few minutes, but after reading the thread on Hard Hit Retailers this is my opinion 1. There will always be shoplifting and this will increase on a yearly basis because the law inforcement is decreasing in some states. 2.Do Loss Prevention managers know that in most states there a CDN (CIVIL DEMAND NOTICE). I used this and recovered over $9,000 in the first quarter. 3. Most companies care about the bott om line (PROFIT) therefore heads will roll. The first area to lose is Security.
Wages are low, very little knowledge of Loss Prevention or Asset Protection duties and lack of communication between retail. The only thanks my officers received were from me because neither the store manager or Ops manager said thanks to build morale for those that are making a difference. If a company says that at apprehension you must know were the item is then you should... after all it is for your protection.
At present companies are installing new CCTV or upgrading the system. The next step is to reduce man power (does this make sense) then lower and freeze wages (in some cases) where does this leave the LP/AP manager? There are many other issues that I can cover but lets return to CDN for a minute. To my knowledge Delaware has NO civil Demand Law whatsoever. North and South Carolina - Written documentation of prior shoplifting apprehension of the juvenile in that store must exist before issuing a civil demand notification. Georgia - CDN Aug. 89, under 10 NO CDN, 10 to 12 NO CDN, 13 to 15 NO CDN, 16 to 18 NO CDN. Ohio - CDN Jul 89, under 10 NO CDN, 10 to 12 NO, if with parents yes if no,13 to 15 CDN YES, 16 to 18 CDN YES.
If cameras are being placed in hot spots then they are in the wrong place. I have not lost one case within within my last 4 years at a major retail store using videos. If cameras are placed correctly there will be no problems other wise very little apprehensions
I hope I didn't step on anyones toes and this was only my opinion. If any one have a need for addition information please let me know.

[Petra Post]

[QUOTE=Sylvia Buetow]Now I can see the importance of some of the mystery shop questions I have to answer.

Hi Sylvia,
before I started with IPIU, I checked into mystery shopping. You know, strangely it seems like they have no shopping to do in Georgia... I keep checking for it but so far I haven't gotten any shops... Do you know, what I might be doing wrong? If you can help, that would be great :) (wrong thread for this question??)

[Michael Harris]

Gilberto

There is help for retailers, it is called ASIS (http://www.asisonline.org/). Anyone interested in PI work should be aware of ASIS. I am a member and I get great material that helps me in the IPIU forums.

[Dabra J Grant -]

Gilberto

There is help for retailers, it is called ASIS (http://www.asisonline.org/). Anyone interested in PI work should be aware of ASIS. I am a member and I get great material that helps me in the IPIU forums.

Thank you for the link, once again I added it into my Favorites for future references. After looking over it quickly I realized it will be valuable, though down the road a bit.

[Petra Post]

I am just glad to be on the right side of this... happy to be with IPIU to make a difference. Yes, this is really a thread to come back to... thanks to all of you making this very interesting reading material. :D

[Calvin Burrell -]

I have put togetther a loss prevetion plan of my own in a power point preesention. :cool:

[Barbara Taggart]

This was very interesting reading. I was in Loss Prevention back in the 70's and it's amazing how little has changed, only grown. What I find interesting is how so many retailers just put new purchased clothes in shopping bags rather than individual paper bags. My first thought when I saw this happen was what a great benefit to the shoplifter. We used to discreetly peek in shopping bags and if we saw loose clothing, we would then start tailing. However, with the new standard practice, how would you even know? Personally, I'm glad to be out of Loss Prevention. I think it would be very discouraging these days. The retailer I worked for always prosecuted, or at the least, plea bargained that the person would not enter the store for at least a year. If they did, we could arrest on the spot.

If I were to do Loss Prevention now, I would want to concentrate on the employees. That's where a lot of the theft is and I think it would be much easier to prove.

[Prem Prasad]

It was a great story,but scary. Thanks to the Small Army of Private Investigators for their great job.

[Larry A Smith]

Robert,
Where can I find a list of the "Rights of a Shoplifter"? I have not seen them and I might apply too much force and violate their rights.

There is a book and ebook on the subject at:

http://www.shoplifting.com/

Cheers - Larry

[Flora Porter]

Hi Lavaghn,

I have worked in retail/sales and share the same concern about suspicious
behavior concerning possible shoplifters. Im peepin at him watchin to see if anybody noticed he had put clothes inside his bag. Now why cant i see what's inside his bag, why cant he open his bag for me to see? would i be wrong to search for our store merchandises?which patriot act was that under?

[Victoria S Kinney]

I have done some loss prevention work and it just amazes me how bold people really are and how they don't care who they hurt to do it. I found out that the most of the losses the stores have is internal. That was one of my jobs to invesitgate internal theft. It was interesting.

[Lisa Elbe]

Great article.

[Ariel Deno -]

You said that even the repeat offender gets off easy.Well that seems to be the problem.We need to start getting tough on crime here in the U.S.The problem is we have earned a reputation as easy on criminals,so all the criminals can't wait to come over here and make their living as a thief!Why do you think we have such a problem with Police Brutality?The cops get tired of chasing these guys for tireless hours only for the courts to put them back on the street.As Investigators we all need to work together and push for tough crime laws and elect representatives who have been tough on crime,otherwise what good is our work of Investigating if the courts don't prosecute??:(

This pervasive crime falls under ORT (organized retail crime). I’ve been investigating cases such as this for 4 year now. It’s actually a $30 billion dollar industry now. Here’s a link to a proposed bill http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s1553.html

[Dabra J Grant -]

The real bottom line is who ends up paying for shoplifting. All of us, a judge or lawmaker should think about that when they shop. I know most stores big and small role that into their prices as they mark items up. The bigger the problem the more we pay. They know the bottom line and how much they should make from their inventory in and the inventory out. Food stores (ie) safeway, albertsons and retail stores charge an amount each month for lost and stolen carts. Just my two cents :cool:

The others who end up paying for shoplifters is the employees in retail. When it all trickles down the end result is that retail employees end up, after all is said and done by receiving lower wages. That is my 2 cents, and only a theory, but everything in life is affected by the law of cause and effect.

Criminals in any shape and form affect and cripple all of us, and the effects on others directly and indirectly are staggering. Like a cancer, they spread across all continents, and devastate all peoples.

How to treat the cancer and prevent the cross contamination, is the question that remains unanswered and like actual cancer, the disease, the cure still evades us.

My theory is that each one of us needs to do our part, and that the old adage "United we Stand - Divided we Fall" is the medicine that perhaps is too simple to be considered the cure.

I will remain firm in my belief that this simple solution is the one and only means. The only missing ingredient is the leadership. I for one will continue to lead by example, and continue to do my part.

To quote an old 60's activist:
"If you are not a part of the solution, You are part of the problem” Jerry Rubin

To quote a dead ex-President of the United States:
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what You can do for your country” John F. Kennedy

[Wendy Brown]

Sarah,

Thank you for the very informative article on shoplifting gangs. It's made me think twice about buying designer clothes in outlets since it appears some of the cost comes back to me anyway. I think I'll just stick to the sales racks at the retail stores to get my deals.

[Julie Mercer -]

Lowe's is advertising for Loss Control Managers and Specialists. They want to protect against shop lifting and in store theft. I am interested in getting training information to combat this type of problem. I have worked with a cash rejister repair person who told me many ways that a clerk can steal from putting the cash register into a training mode, which will not add the total to the talley or print a receipt, to a manger and a clerk adding their own check out line costing the company almost $300,000.

That is staggering! I will never go into Lowe's again without thinking about that dollar amount along with scrutinizing the clerks. Information like this opening my eyes so much :eek: !
Julie Mercer

[Angela Beck]

That is unbeleavable. I work in a store as a cashier, I know that alot of people do stuff like that but I didn't think that it was that much.
Angela Beck

[Julie Mercer -]

That is unbeleavable. I work in a store as a cashier, I know that alot of people do stuff like that but I didn't think that it was that much.
Angela Beck
Angela,
Having knowledge of that type of illegal behavior can you do anything to stop it?
Julie Mercer

[Angela Beck]

You try to say something to the store directer or the lose provention team and what they do is watch them for awhile and if they don't do it they for get about it and go on doing other stuff.
Angela Beck

[Julie Mercer -]

Angela,
That is too bad!
Julie Mercer

[Sidney J Jolly -]

Obviously, what stores need to reduce shoplifting losses is to get tough on shoplifters, support store security personnel in cases of lawsuits, and pressure judges and district attorneys to get tough on shoplifting. Paying store security and sales personnel a percentage of goods recovered certainly wouldn't hurt!
If a store establishes a tought on crime reputation, thieves will decide to shoplift elsewhere.

Sidney J. Jolly

[Angela Beck]

But the sad thing about this too is that alot of the theft is done by co-workers. I agree with what you say about the tougher the better, that is my thought. Peaple just don't relize that it just takes 1 to ruin things and they never learn either.
Angela Beck

[Michelle Horton]

The retail industry is where I would like to concentrate my PI work on.

Michelle : ;)

[Julie Mercer -]

Paying store security and sales personnel a percentage of goods recovered certainly wouldn't hurt!Sidney J. Jolly
Sidney,
An incentive program, great idea. It can be a vicious circle trying to prevent theft. At time it must be discouraging too. I know there are a multitude of factors contributing to the decision to prosecute or not. But, where do you draw the line? My sister-in-law worked for a large, well-known department store and she would share stories regarding shoplifters. At times it was very frustrating to deal with the shoplifter's attitudes, lies, arrogance, and a certainty that nothing would happen to them for their crime. You are absolutly right about the store need to clamp down on theft. Afterall, if they are paying staff to protect the merchandise - let them. I say, enforce the law!
Julie Mercer

[Michelle Horton]

The retail company that I work for now offers an incentive program but most of the employees don't take ownership in the company and they are not as aware as the managers in the building.

[Julie Mercer -]

The retail company that I work for now offers an incentive program but most of the employees don't take ownership in the company and they are not as aware as the managers in the building.
Michelle,
That is unfortunate because until all the employees are made to feel (by management) they are an intrinsical element of the team, there will not be participatory attitude. Making announcements, having meetings, distributing memos, regarding the theft of their merchandice would help inform all of the seriousness of the problem. Then, tell everyone of the incentive program. Motivating their staff toward a common goal makes sense and would hopefully make a difference in their loses. Just my opinion. :)
Julie Mercer

[Angela Beck]

Julie,
I agree with what you are saying. At the store that I work for the people that do the shop lifting have to pay back 10 times the value plus go to court. That is if they get caught.
Angela Beck

[Julie Mercer -]

I agree with what you are saying. At the store that I work for the people that do the shop lifting have to pay back 10 times the value plus go to court. That is if they get caught.
Angela,
I love it! Good for your store! :)
Julie Mercer

[Angela Beck]

Michelle,
I am glad that you are pretty sure what you want to focus you P.I. work on. I am not exactly sure, but I would like to maybe focus on children or elderly people. I just can't go for people being miss treated and left by themselves when they can't take care of themselves, do you know what I mean? I read these articles in the papers and it just makes me angry that there are people in this world that are so evil. It just eats me up inside.
Angela Beck

[Adam S Garrett]

I had absoluely no idea that the black market of stolen clothing produced so much revenue. I think that it is important for retailers to have tougher security in their stores even if it costs consumers a little bit more. Also, the prison sentence that Luis Baez received was a joke - 3 years probation!? How about 10 years in prison? Tougher penalties would help the problem somewhat.

[Brian Samanie -]

Adding another twist to what I think is a fascinating topic... I work for a retailer that sells, among other things, software ranging from $10-1,500. For anything over a certain amount (usu. $100), we have this plastic transparent casing/box with a lid that can only be opened by a certain magnetized tool. Pretty good deterrent actually!

Well, this deterrent is so good, that a retailer across the street has one. And the retailer next door has one. And the retailer down the road has one. So there's this company that sells these theft-deterrent devices to major retail chains. Everyone has them. Great!

Problem is... um, everyone has them. That means employees with access to this magnetized tool that opens up the box can walk in another retailer and open THOSE software boxes. They take this box of software and go to the furniture department, sit at a desk and open up the plastic box underneath the desk. Then they open the cardboard box of software and remove the disks/paperwork. They place it on their person somewhere and escape very easily.

This device is so good and the salesmen do such a good job of selling it, that it makes the device bad. Odd little circle there, huh?! ;)

[Brenda Templin]

Some businesses are their own worst enemy. :(

Home Dept has been using mystery shoppers for several years, and does so on a regular basis. In a recent article, a Home Depot spokesman noted that undercover shoppers take mental notes on how they are greeted, what products are missing on the shelves, pricing, employee interaction and the overall look and experience at the store.

"We're looking for feedback on a regular basis. We want our associates to treat every customer like they are a secret shopper," he said.

However, I find it ironic that they are proactive in striving for good customer service, etc., yet they are so lacking in the area of security. They set themselves and their customers up for theft. :rolleyes:

When I managed an apartment complex, we did a lot of business with Home Depot. Once, when I made a purchase of close to $1,000 for maintenance supplies, the fiasco that followed caused them to lose us as a customer.

I went into Home Depot as usual, located everything I needed, went to the checkout and paid with my corporate credit card. As usual, they didn't ask for id to make sure it matched my name on the business card. That, in itself, is a mistake because the card could have been lost or stolen.

Since I had an overloaded basket with one item being very heavy, and another a little awkward to handle myself, the clerk told me to just push my basket into the outer area, leave it there and pull my car up to the curb and she would have someone load them into my car. I was a little leary of leaving the basket unattended, but she assured me it would be ok. She then called for someone, and I did as she said.

I walked to the parking lot, got my car, and parked it by the curb. My basket was still sitting right where I had left it, customers were going in and out, but I did not see an employee. After waiting a few minutes, I finally pushed the basket to the car myself and started unloading the smaller items. The employee finally showed up and helped load the other two items.

I had noticed a police car in the parking lot, and a man standing outside the car talking to the officer, but didn't think anything about it. When I pulled out of the parking lot, the police officer followed me and stopped me. :confused: The reason he stopped me was because he thought I had stolen the merchandise, but I'll get to that in a minute.

He asked for the usual stuff...license, proof of insurance, proof of ownership of the vehicle. As I was opening the glove box, I was thinking to myself that I did not remember putting my insurance card, etc., back in the car after recently renewing registration and also changing insurance companies. Sure enough, none of it was there. :o This was bad enough, and my own fault for not having my paperwork in the car, but the saga goes on.

The officer spotted proof of ownership in the glove box, and asked to see it. It was my mother's old paperwork...I had bought the car from her. Now the officer is thinking I'm driving a stolen car. :eek: I explained to him that the person named on the paperwork was my mother, who I had bought the car from. He ran a check and found that the car did belong to me, but presented me with another problem.

He said the registration had expired a few weeks before, so now he is thinking that the current registration sticker on the auto license is stolen. :eek: :eek: Grrrrr..... By this time, I'm feeling as frustrated and nervous as a long-tailed cat sitting under a rocking chair!

It was true that the registration had expired before I had it renewed because the car was in the shop being repaired at the time of renewal, and couldn't be inspected until after the repairs were done. However, once the repairs were done, it was inspected and registration was renewed. According to the officer, when he ran the check, it came up as still not having been registered. After a brief conversation, I finally pursuaded him to run the check again because there was a mistake somewhere. He finally returns from his car and still tells me it comes up expired. :mad: :mad: :mad: He gives me a citation for no proof of insurance, and another for driving a vehicle with expired registration. I was furious that the info was not in the system, but knew that this could have been prevented if I'd had my paperwork with me. :( No problem...I would just take the paperwork to court and the citations would be dropped.

The officer then tells me why I was stopped to begin with...for suspicion of theft, and asked to see the receipt for all the merchandise in my car. I was flabergasted, to put it lightly! :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: I not only showed him the receipt, but also the corporate card I charged it with, which also had my name on it. He checked every single item in my car TWICE to see whether each was on the receipt. The officer drilled me about the purchases...why I was purchasing the items, what they were for, etc. He took the receipt and the credit card to his car while a waited. Finally he returned, checked the items again, and returned the card and receipt to me. :rolleyes:

After this 45-minute fiasco, the officer told me that there were several recent instances of people pulling a vehicle up to the curb at Home Depot, going in and walking out with baskets of stolen merchandise. The officer said one person got out of there with several thousands of dollars worth of items just a couple of days before. I don't know whether the thieves just walked out of the store with the merchandise, or whether they grabbed a cart belonging to some customer who had been told by a clerk, as I was, to just leave their cart in the outer area while retrieving their vehicle. He just ASSUMED I had stolen the merchandise because I left my car at the curb, got the basket and loaded it myself. It didn't seem to matter that an employee did show up to help load the two items I needed help with. :rolleyes:

Either way, Home Depot should have had an employee watching the door, and watching a customer's cart when suggesting they leave it there while driving their car up. Especially when they KNEW there were recent incidences of theft by someone leaving a vehicle at the curb, then going in for a basket, loading their vehicle and driving off. Geez.... What were they thinking??? :confused:

I guess it just wasn't my day!!!

The officer finally let me go, so I dropped the supplies off with my maintenance man and then went to the state licensing office to question why my vehicle came up in the computer as not being registered. They said there was no problem, and did a printout that showed the vehicle was registered the day that I told the officer it was registered. I was told that the officer's inquiry should have shown that I did have a valid registration. They were as confused as I was. I don't know whether there was a computer "glitch", or whether I was dealing with an overzealous or incompetent cop. I just know he seemed awful determined to find some reason to make an arrest. :mad: :mad: :mad:

A week or so later, I returned to Home Depot and took my two maintenance me with me to help decide between two riding lawnmowers, and to pick up other supplies. We decided on a mower, then went to several other departments to gather supplies...plumbing, electrical, etc.

While looking at riding mowers, I noticed a man standing nearby and recognized him as the same one who had been talking to the officer in the parking lot just before the officer had stopped me when leaving previously. I didn't think anything about it until I noticed him nearby in every department I visited! :confused: By this time, I was furious. I was obviously being stalked by their undercover security person in spite of the fact that I was not guilty of theft when I was hassled on the previous visit. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I paid for the mower and other items totaling over $2,000, and also paid for rental of one of their trucks to deliver the mower. While filling out the paperwork for the truck, I noticed the same employee standing behind the counter nearby watching. :confused: :mad: First off, he had no reason to be stalking me, and second, he was lousy at his job. I easily picked up on the fact that he was watching me. It was a humiliating experience. :( Had I not been rushed to get back to the apartments for an appointment, I would have demanded to speak to the manager and spill my guts about not only the fiasco a week or so earlier, but also the fact that their security person was doing a very bad job of being inconspicuous!!!

I had no control over the corporate account, which was used at locations in several states, but I did have control over where I made purchases for my location. After that experience, I made all purchases through another supplier with the exception of items I could get only at Home Depot.

Home Depot needs to wake up and close the security holes in their daily operations if they want to keep customers!

I learned two lessons...

(1) Keep my paperwork with me. The citations were dropped, but cost me the hassle and time lost to go across town and show proof.

(2) Never allow myself to fall into another situation like what happened at Home Depot! If I ever find myself in this type position again, I will ignore the clerk's instructions, and wait for the employee to first show up, and have him wait outside with the basket while I go get the car!

Brenda

[Angela Beck]

Brenda,
I have heard about alot of this type of problems before. I think that they are just wanting to get as many people as possible on their list to say, hey I caught this many people from stealing. Sorry that you had all of this problem.
Angela Beck

[Brenda Templin]

Hi Angela,

Although I was fit to be tied at the time, thinking back now, the whole scenario would have made a good comedy. I can picture Lucille Ball playing the part of me.

Picture it... (OMG...I've been watching Golden Girls too much)

I'm driving along minding my own business and the next thing I know, I'm worried because an officer is asking for paperwork that I left at home and of course, he does not believe me.

Then he thinks I'm driving a stolen car. Ok, now my heart is pounding because I don't have proof with me.

I get a moment of relief when he verifies the car is mine, but then he thinks the registration sticker must be stolen. By now my head is spinning and I'm thinking I'm going to jail because it did not come up on the computer.

Just when I think the fiasco is over, I find out the reason he stopped me...he thinks all the merchandise is stolen. Ok, now I am mad! At least I have my proof for this, but I'm wondering what he will come up with next. LOL

When he finally let me go, I was shaking so bad I had to pull over a couple of blocks down the road. Needless to say, the first thing I did after getting the supplies unloaded was put everything in my purse.

I can laugh now, but it took a long time before I could see the humor in it. LOL

Brenda

[David A Swift]

I currently work Loss Prevention and am transitioning to PIT for many of the reasons you have mentioned. I am constantly performing above average and expectations at my job but the work is hard and the ones you do catch you can almost always expect that they will never see jail time and 19 out of 20 times in Washington they are never even charged with having committed a crime unless they openly confess to a Police Officer after be mirandized. It is frustrating. Another problem is the types of things that are being stolen. The most expensive thing sold at Safeway stores is a spice called Saffron. It costs around NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS A POUND!!! and comes in tiny packages containing .01 ounces that sell for 20-30 dollars each.
Dave Swift

[David A Swift]

Brenda,
Do you know the type of a civil suit you could bring against the Home Depot. If a Loss Prevention agent tells a Police Officer that you have stolen something then the LP agent is responsible for the detainment and arrest (if one would have occured). Civil suits for simular situations in Washington have resulted in 1.5 million dollar settlements. Just something you might want to consider to get Home Depots attention.
Dave Swift

[Brenda Templin]

Hello David,

Well, it was about 3 years ago that it happened. At the time, when I was still fuming, I probably thought to myself that I should sue them, but I didn't know that I could. I'm not even sure that I would have if I had known. What caused me the most stress could have been prevented if I'd had my paperwork with me. On the other hand, had it not been for their wrong assumption, I wouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

There have been several instances in my lifetime when I know I could have sued for something, and in one case really should have for sure, but I tend to just "get over it" and let things go...less stress that way.

About 29 years ago, I know I should have sued Coca Cola and Safeway, but didn't. I was in the grocery store with my daughter, who was 2 years old, when a 32 oz. bottle of Coke exploded in my daughter's face. In case you are not old enough to remember, this was before plastic bottles...it was glass. The bottle was just sitting there...noone touched it...it just exploded. Safeway did fill out an accident report, and one of their employees saw it happen. I had my daughter's eyes checked to make sure she was ok, and just dropped it.

However, a couple of years later, she had to start wearing glasses...she was almost legally blind in both eyes and I didn't know. I have always wondered whether that incident might have had something to do with it. I realize now that I probably would have had a case whether there was immediately obvious damage or not. I carry that guilt with me to this day.

Back then, raising my two girls alone, I just had no time for one more thing to have to deal with. I realize now that I did my daughter an injustice...guess I was just too naive in those days. :(

Brenda

[Brenda Templin]

By the way, David, I noticed you are new to IPIU. Welcome to your new family. You are going to love it. I am convinced this is the best way to go for PI training. I have learned so much already.

Right now I am unemployed and trying to come up with the $$$ for my credentials and fee. I can't wait!

Make it happen!
Brenda

[Angela Beck]

Brenda and David,
Brenda sounds like you are due for something good to come your way. Sorry that you have had so much trouble in the past, make it better for yourself.
David,
I just want to welcome you to ipiu, good luck.
Angela Beck :p

[Dan Stroupe]

Wow, all this is pretty interesting, I think I would like to try loss prevention/secret shopper.

[Brenda Templin]

Thank you, Angela. I am sure things will get better. I really have a good feeling about getting into PI work. I always loved working with phone systems, but am now looking forward to new and challenging opportunities.

David, I meant to mention in my last post that I am sure your current position is both frustrating and stressful. It must be hard to deal with when you know you have done an outstanding job, only to see them get off so easy. I have no doubt that your new career as a private investigator will be much more rewarding. Your dedication will pay off.

I wish you both the best.

Brenda

[David A Swift]

Thanks to everyone for the great welcoming. I am glad that I have finally found a career path where I am going to be able to actually assist people and see an outcome from my work. It was hard working LP and arresting the same person 20-30 times. I knew some of these people well enough that they would confess to the thefts and handover the merchandise long before I made any contact with them. One guy I saw so often he invited me to come to his daughters birthday party. I am just praying that my devotion to my work and my ignorance toward sleep will finally make me feel good about what I am going to be doing. Brenda, thank you especially for your assistance and insight. I definetly agree it is about time something good went your way. I believe that you are definetly a person who has a lot of life experience and you will go far in this job.

[Brenda Templin]

Hello David,

Thanks for the nice comments. I'm sure many others here have had their share of disappointments and frustrations also. You just have to move on. :)

You were obviously very good at your job. I had to laugh when you mentioned those that confessed to you before you made contact. It tells me that you were able to gain their trust in the past even though you arrested them. They obviously respected you. ;)

Make it happen!
Brenda Templin

[David A Swift]

Brenda,
I would hope that it was a respect issue. I am proud of what I am and will be doing in my life. I just wish I could jump right into the job instead of going through all the paperwork and licensing issues. I know its best for everyone this way but I am just impatient in my youth. I want to send my condolences to you regarding your misfortunes and current situation of waiting for everything to go through. I am glad to see that you are spending the time that you have to learn and not idle around waiting. If your devotion shows through your participation you will go very far in your current embarkings.
David Swift

[Brenda Templin]

David,

The time will pass before you know it. It sounds like everyone here goes through the same thing. :( I have been reading The Idiot's Guide To Private Investigations, so that has helped pass some of the time. I'm almost done with it, and getting ready to read it again so that I retain more.

I wish you the very best. I am sure you will do very well. :D

Make it happen!
Brenda

[Jennifer Harrell]

Thanks everyone for you input. I am glad that I read this after all of you posted. Good information.

Jennifer

[Tammy Elia]

Thank you everyone for all the thoughts, insights and anecdotes.

I am an 18 year retail veteran, 15 of those years as executive management. I have worked for some of the largest nationally known chains, some of which have been mentioned in previous posts. Coming from the NYC and metro NY area I have had dealings with many of these organized shoplifting gangs as well as the nickel and dimers. Luckily I have been fortunate to be involved in the apprehensions of many.

I have been lucky in my years in the industry. I have had the great fortune to work with some truly awesome Loss Prevention teams. Unfortunately I have also had to terminate entire L.P. teams for " turning their heads" :mad: :confused: . The greatest help that I could ever be to my teams, aside from being backup in an apprehension when needed, was to ensure that they had management support and associate awareness.

When they come to me and want to interrogate a long term associate, I don't balk at them and say they're crazy. I look at the evidence with them. When they come and tell me that we were hit for $25,000 in Diamond jewelry on a busy saturday afternoon :eek: , I don't ask who wasn't paying attention but what we need to do better to prevent it from happening again and did we contact all appropriate LEA's. For once an easy score is made, the crooks will be back.

The best years I have had in shortage reduction have occurred when everyone worked together to make it happen.
Unfortunately I have also had to terminate some of my best associates and managers as D.E.'s and when you work in an environment that tries to promote a family atmosphere, it hurts and you don't forget them :( .

Customer service will always be the best deterrent to external theft. When your short on security staff or they are already occupied, a good atttentive associate can make a shoplifter think twice, without endangering the associate.

More and more large companies are revamping there Loss Prevention initiatives. When you lose $1 billion in one year the money spent on staff and equipment would be well spent. For a store that does $60 million a year and loses $500,000, that could be the difference between Profit and Loss.
Thanks for letting me share,
Tammy :)

[Eric J Kekeis*--]

I remember watching something about shopplifting gangs on 60 minutes last year. I could not believe how some of these people pulled off the jobs they did. Not to mention, some didn't have a strict enough punishment since most were back on the street doing the same thing a few months later.

[Daniel Clark]

Good reading everybody. This was some very interesting stuff. I had no idea that this type of stuff was going on in NY. Can wait to read more....

Daniel Clark

[Geoffrey T Wallace]

Hi Carolynne.

I'm wondering why an outside door, in addition to the requirement that it be locked after a certain time in the evening, wouldn't be monitored by a surveillance camera? I realize that stores don't have an unlimited budget for security precautions, but it would seem that it would be prudent to do a risk assessment of the structure and closely monitor areas where there is a greater opportunity for theft.

Geoff

[Geoffrey T Wallace]

I'm curious - do a lot of loss prevention workers get charged with unlawful detention? What are they charged with if they detain a shoplifter who has somehow managed to get rid of stolen goods by the time they are stopped? Does anyone have any personal stories of actual cases where the loss prevention worker has lost their jobs or been arrested by the police?

Geoff

[Michael Harris]

Geoffrey,

Your comment about surveillance cameras brings up the situation in my local high school. With a student population of 1500 and staff of 200, we have only 128 cameras installed.

It took several years to afford that many and we still need at least 64 more - to be installed this year. Think of it - 192 cameras for 1700 people - 8.9 people per camera.

The school has Many, many exits to the outside and to the many courtyards. Each door to the outside takes at least two cameras - one to see is going out and one to see who is coming in. In the parts of the building with three stories, each stairwell needs at least 8 cameras.

I did not bother to look up the cost of cameras, monitors (at least 20), installation, maintenance, etc. The cost is not small - which is why we had to do the installation over a several year period..

[Tammy Elia]

Geoffrey,

... It took several years to afford that many and we still need at least 64 more - to be installed this year. Think of it - 192 cameras for 1700 people - 8.9 people per camera....

I did not bother to look up the cost of cameras, monitors (at least 20), installation, maintenance, etc. The cost is not small - which is why we had to do the installation over a several year period..

Michael,
You are so right about the cost. I would have to put capital requests in at the end of each fiscal year for equipment. In our case the installation of an additional camera was about $2,000. Most of the time my Managers would install the camera themselves just to speed the process and lower the expense. It's amazing that we could possibly recoup $50,000 in a year in some zones with the additional camera. :eek:

Unfortunately, we many times did not get the requests and my Managers would spend time moving equipment to new hot spots. We would pray that a larger volume store would get a new system and we would get their old components. I can certainly feel for the single unit store that can't afford the equipment. :(

Tammy

[W Kotz]

Geoff your comment reminded me of my very first apprehension. I was in my early twenties and pretty green when it came to loss prevention. I had a good partner who taught me well but you just can’t learn everything at once. Most will come with experience, as this short story will show.
One evening at a major department store in Washington, D.C., I observed an elderly black male take some merchandise and concealed it under his coat. Needless to say, this being my first apprehension on my own I became very excited. The suspect figured out in no time that I was following him. Once outside the store I apprehended him and brought him back to the office. After searching him, nothing could be found. He obviously ditched the merchandise when he realized I was after him. The suspect became pretty belligerent and talked about how he is going to sue the company. Following procedures, I called my supervisor. Once my supervisor showed up things changed in a hurry. It just so happened that my supervisor was a retired motorcycle police officer who was very familiar with this suspects past criminal record. Without going into details, the gentleman I apprehended walked out of the office just glad to be on his way. Nothing ever happened and as for me, I became more aware of my surrounding and a better loss prevention specialist. Now 20 years later I never again made a bad stop.

[Michael Harris]

Tammy,

Now figure out the cost of cameras for a fleet of school busses - maybe 100. The cameras for school busses do not need monitors. They are used during the time that there are children on the busses. The tapes are reused unless there is an incident on the bus.

Many parents will be hostile to the school administrators until they see the tape.

We do not have the money for this yet, but we have been lobbying for it for years.

For those of you who have read "The Da Vinci Code", you will notice that the Louvre has non-functioning cameras everywhere. Museums use containment security; but that is for another forum.

[Silvia A Andrade]

I currently work doing inventory for retail stores. I have to agree that some of the stories I have heard have been hard to swallow. Even the kind of rules they have to abide by, like not being able to touch the customer in certain instances. Then if you do and they are clean, you might end up with a law suit. And if caught it looks like they are getting a slap on the wrist. I think that retailers should try to do more about not letting any shoplifter get away with anything. It will cost them money, but in the long run they will save much more.

[Sidney J Jolly -]

Saw an ad recently, for a video recorder able to record 700 hours of TV programming on a single CD. That's slightly over 29 days. Using motion detector triggering, one could record the video from a CCTV camera for several times that. I.e., data storage capacity is becomming very cheap! Only a little more to add auto focus, low light capacity, etc.

[Patti Schubert -]

I know in the retail business fraud is a real problem. As a former retail owner, I have seen first hand how devastating the problem is. On the retail side it is such a huge lose and it doen't matter if your a small business or a huge corporation, the end result is the same. As well as a lose in your pocket, it is also a lose for the public. The retailers have to raise the prices to keep up with the problem. Sometimes justice does win. I found four employees stealing and embezzling at my place of business. Three minors had to make restitution, court costs and community service. I had one adult. She received a felon, court costs, community service and some classes. With good PI work and documentation the right side of the law does win sometimes. We as a public have to keep our eyes open and vigiland in this huge problem that society as a whole have. Thank you for the article.

[Eloisa Mooney]

Shoplifting rings totally amaze me. I understand why the "average" shop is not staffed or prepared to handle the ring as they hit their store. If a store only has one loss prevention employee on staff when the ring enters, I can see where the manager would become overwhelmed with where to be and who to watch. He/she would be lucky to snag one or two of the individuals.

The bright spot for me in this is the sharing of video tape that is happening between loss prevention individuals. They are trying to get a step ahead of the ring by communicating their activities and photos to others.

[Jessica Rose O'Bryan -]

Seems to me these million dollar companies would be fine without charging us an extra 440 a year/family for shiplifter crimes...but I guess that's just my opinion.

[Michael Harris]

Jessica,

There are costs associated with the manufacture and sale of everything. The consumer is the only one who bears the cost. If the consumer does not bear the cost, where will the mmoney come from? :confused:

[Janet Normington]

Since shoplifting gangs are in it for the money, I think that targeting this illegitimate income would be a more effective deterent than probation.

Theft-deterent devices used by stores are often generic and readily available which can defeat their purpose. It would help if such devices could be programmed to work only in a specific store or retailer.