PI LICENSING: Texas

[Legal Affairs]

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<center>NO LICENSE IS REQUIRED
IF you fall into the following:</center>


Sections 1702.321 through 1702.330 as Revised. NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an individual employed by one employer in connection with the affairs of the employer.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who obtains information from public records.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who is engaged in the business for preemployment purposes, honesty, and interviewing services.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a private business who has their own security or investigative department.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and providing information to determine creditworthiness;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and providing information to collect debts.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an IRS recognized charitable, nonprofit organization that provides services related to locating missing children.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR:a person engaged in electronic monitoring of an individual as a condition of that individual's community supervision, parole, mandatory supervision, or release on bail.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of verifying information provided by an applicant for property, life, or disability insurance or an indemnity or surety bond;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of repossessing property that is secured by a mortgage or other security interest;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR:a person whose activities are regulated under the Insurance Code.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a licensed professional engineer practicing forensic analysis or necessary data collection;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a licensed insurance company, including their employees while performing duties in connection with the insurance policy.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an attorney while engaged in the practice of law;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who obtains a document for use in litigation under an authorization issued for a written or oral deposition;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an employee or agent of a common carrier who protects or investgates the carrier or a user of the carrier's long-distance services from a fraudulent, unlawful, or abusive use of those long-distance services.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who sells exclusively burglar alarm signal devices, burglary alarms, television cameras, still cameras, or other electrical, mechanical, or electronic devices used for preventing or detecting burglary, theft, or other losses.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an employee of the United States, this state, or a political subdivision of this state while the employee is performing official duties.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who has full-time employment as a peace officer and who receives compensation for private employment on an individual or an independent contractor basis as a patrolman, guard, extra job coordinator, or watchman if the officer: (A) is employed in an employee-employer relationship or employed on an individual contractual basis; (B) is not in the employ of another peace officer; (C) is not a reserve peace officer; and (D) works as a peace officer on the average of at least 32 hours a week, is compensated by the state or a political subdivision of the state at least at the minimum wage, and is entitled to all employee benefits offered to a peace officer by the state or political subdivision;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a reserve peace officer while the reserve officer is performing guard, patrolman, or watchman duties for a county and is being compensated solely by that county;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a peace officer acting in an official capacity in responding to a burglar alarm or detection device; or


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of a locksmith who (A) does not install or service detection devices; (B) does not conduct investigations; and (C) is not a security services contractor;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a common carrier by rail engaged in interstate commerce, regulated by state and federal authorities, and transporting commodities essential to the national defense and to the general welfare and safety of the community; or


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an entity that: provides medical alert services for persons who are sick or disabled;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an entity that: does not provide any other service that requires a license under this chapter; and


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a hospital or a wholly owned subsidiary or an affiliate of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code; or


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a charitable or a nonprofit entity that provides the services in the manner required by Subsection (b) and that is exempt from the payment of federal income taxes under Section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and its subsequent amendments by being listed as an exempt entity under Section 501(c)(3) of that code.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A charitable or nonprofit entity that provides medical alert services must provide those services through a licensed person, licensed nurse, licensed physician assistant or by a hospital, subsidiary, or affiliate described by Subsection (a)(3)(A).


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who sells or installs automobile burglar alarm devices.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR:a person who holds a license or other credential issued by a municipality to practice as an electrician and who installs fire or smoke detectors only in single-family or multifamily residences.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who is employed full-time by and is commissioned as a campus security personnel employee by a private institution of higher education; or


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a peace officer commissioned by an incorporated municipality who is hired on a regular basis by a private institution of higher education while that peace officer is operating within the scope of the peace officer's employment with the institution of higher education.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a nonprofit business or civic organization that: (A) employs a peace officer who meets the qualifications of Section 1702.322(1) as a patrolman, guard, or watchman; (B) provides the services of the peace officer only to: (i) the organization's members; or (ii) if the organization does not have members, the members of the communities served by the organization as described in the organization's articles of incorporation or other organizational documents; (C) devotes the net receipts from all charges for the services exclusively to the cost of providing the services or to the costs of other services for the enhancement of the security or safety of: (i) the organization's members; or (ii) if the organization does not have members, the members of the communities served by the organization as described in the organization's articles of incorporation or other organizational documents; and (D) does not perform any other service that requires a license under this chapter;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person who owns and installs a burglar detection or alarm device on the person's own property or, if the person does not charge for the device or the installation, installs the device for the protection of the person's personal property located on another person's property and does not, as a normal business practice, install the devices on the property of another;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person in the business of building construction that installs electrical wiring and devices that may include in part the installation of a burglar alarm or detection device if: (A) the person is a party to a contract that provides that: (i) the installation will be performed under the direct supervision of, and inspected and certified by, a person licensed to install and certify the alarm or detection device; and (ii) the license holder assumes full responsibility for the installation of the alarm or detection device; and (B) the person does not service or maintain burglar alarms or detection devices;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: an employee of a cattle association who inspects livestock brands under the authority granted to the cattle association by the Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration of the United States Department of Agriculture;


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a landman performing activities in the course and scope of the landman's business.

SOURCE:
[QUOTE]SUBCHAPTER N. EXCEPTIONS
Sec. 1702.321. GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

(a) Except as provided by this section, this chapter does not apply to an officer or employee of the United States, this state, or a political subdivision of this state while the employee or officer is performing official duties.

(b) The provisions of this chapter relating to security officer commissions apply to a person employed by a political subdivision whose duties include serving as a security guard, security watchman, or security patrolman on property owned or operated by the political subdivision if the governing body of the political subdivision files a written request with the commission for the commission to issue a commission to the political subdivision's employees with those duties.

(c) The commission may not charge a fee for issuing a commission to an officer under Subsection (b). The commission shall issue to the officer a pocket card designating the political subdivision that employs the officer.

(d) The commission expires at the time the officer's employment as a security officer by the political subdivision is terminated.

(e) The commission may approve a security officer training program conducted by the political subdivision in accordance with Sections 1702.1675 and 1702.168.

Sec. 1702.322. LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL.
This chapter does not apply to:
OCCUPATIONS CODE - CHAPTER 1702
Revised 09/01/2001 29

(1) a person who has full-time employment as a peace officer and who receives compensation for private employment on an individual or an independent contractor basis as a patrolman, guard, extra job coordinator, or watchman if the officer:

(A) is employed in an employee-employer relationship or employed on an individual contractual basis;

(B) is not in the employ of another peace officer;

(C) is not a reserve peace officer; and

(D) works as a peace officer on the average of at least 32 hours a week, is compensated by the state or a political subdivision of the state at least at the minimum wage, and is entitled to all employee benefits offered to a peace officer by the state or political subdivision;

(2) a reserve peace officer while the reserve officer is performing guard, patrolman, or watchman duties for a county and is being compensated solely by that county;

(3) a peace officer acting in an official capacity in responding to a burglar alarm or detection device; or

(4) a person engaged in the business of electronic monitoring of an individual as a condition of that individual's community supervision, parole, mandatory supervision, or release on bail, if the person does not perform any other service that requires a license under this chapter.

Sec. 1702.323. SECURITY DEPARTMENT OF PRIVATE BUSINESS.

(a) Except as provided by Subsections (b) and (d), this chapter does not apply to an individual employed in an employee-employer relationship exclusively and regularly by one employer in connection with the affairs of the employer.

(b) An individual described by Subsection (a) who carries a firearm in the course of employment must obtain a private security officer commission under this chapter.

(c) Although the security department of a private business that hires or employs an individual as a private security officer to possess a firearm in the course and scope of the individual's duties is required to apply for a security officer commission for the individual under this chapter, the security department of a private business is not required to apply to the commission for any license under this chapter.

(d) This chapter applies to an individual described by Subsection (a) who:

(1) works at a location that is open to the public; and

(2) in the course of employment:

(A) regularly comes into contact with the public; and

(B) wears a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with "security" or the name of the employer on the patch or apparel.

Sec. 1702.324. CERTAIN OCCUPATIONS.

(a) For the purposes of this section, "landman" means an individual who, in the course and scope of the individual's business:

(1) acquires or manages petroleum or mineral interests; or

(2) performs title or contract functions related to the exploration, exploitation, or disposition of petroleum or mineral interests.

(b) This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a manufacturer or a manufacturer's authorized distributor who sells equipment to a license holder that is used in the operations for which the person is required to be licensed;

(2) a person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and providing information to:

(A) determine creditworthiness;

(B) collect debts; or

(C) ascertain the reliability of information provided by an applicant for property, life, or disability insurance or an indemnity or surety bond;

(3) a person engaged exclusively in the business of repossessing property that is secured by a mortgage or other security interest;

(4) a locksmith who:

(A) does not install or service detection devices;

(B) does not conduct investigations; and

(C) is not a security services contractor;

(5) a person who:

OCCUPATIONS CODE - CHAPTER 1702
Revised 09/01/2001 30

(A) is engaged in the business of psychological testing or other testing and interviewing services, including services to determine attitudes, honesty, intelligence, personality, and skills, for preemployment purposes; and

(B) does not perform any other service that requires a license under this chapter;

(6) a person who:

(A) is engaged in obtaining information that is a public record under Chapter 552, Government Code, regardless of whether the person receives compensation;

(B) is not a full-time employee, as defined by Section 61.001, Labor Code, of a person licensed under this chapter; and

(C) does not perform any other act that requires a license under this chapter;

(7) a licensed professional engineer practicing engineering or directly supervising engineering practice under The Texas Engineering Practice Act (Article 3271a, Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes), including forensic analysis, burglar alarm system engineering, and necessary data collection;

(8) an employee of a cattle association who inspects livestock brands under the authority granted to the cattle association by the Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration of the United States Department of Agriculture;

(9) a landman performing activities in the course and scope of the landman's business;

(10) an attorney while engaged in the practice of law;

(11) a person who obtains a document for use in litigation under an authorization or subpoena issued for a written or oral deposition;

(12) an admitted insurer, insurance adjuster, agent, or insurance broker licensed by the state, performing duties in connection with insurance transacted by that person.

Sec. 1702.325. COMMON CARRIERS.
This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a common carrier by rail engaged in interstate commerce, regulated by state and federal authorities, and transporting commodities essential to the national defense and to the general welfare and safety of the community; or

(2) an officer, employee, or agent of a common carrier, as defined by Section 153 of the federal Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. Section 153), and its subsequent amendments, while protecting the carrier or a user of the carrier's long-distance services from a fraudulent, unlawful, or abusive use of those long-distance services.

Sec. 1702.326. MEDICAL ALERT SERVICES.

(a) This chapter does not apply to an entity that:

(1) provides medical alert services for persons who are sick or disabled;

(2) does not provide any other service that requires a license under this chapter; and

(3) is:

(A) a hospital or a wholly owned subsidiary or an affiliate of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code; or

(B) a charitable or a nonprofit entity that provides the services in the manner required by Subsection (b) and that is exempt from the payment of federal income taxes under Section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and its subsequent amendments by being listed as an exempt entity under Section 501(c)(3) of that code.

(C) A charitable or nonprofit entity that provides medical alert services must provide those services through a licensed person, licensed nurse, licensed physician assistant or by a hospital, subsidiary, or affiliate described by Subsection (a)(3)(A).

Sec. 1702.327. NONPROFIT AND CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS.
This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a nonprofit business or civic organization that:

(A) employs a peace officer who meets the qualifications of Section 1702.322(1) as a patrolman, guard, or watchman;

(B) provides the services of the peace officer only to:

(i) the organization's members; or

(ii) if the organization does not have members, the members of the communities served by the organization as described in the organization's articles of incorporation or other organizational documents;

OCCUPATIONS CODE - CHAPTER 1702
Revised 09/01/2001 31

(C) devotes the net receipts from all charges for the services exclusively to the cost of providing the services or to the costs of other services for the enhancement of the security or safety of:

(i) the organization's members; or

(ii) if the organization does not have members, the members of the communities served by the organization as described in the organization's articles of incorporation or other organizational documents; and

(D) does not perform any other service that requires a license under this chapter; or

(2) a charitable, nonprofit organization that maintains a system of records to aid in the location of missing children and that:

(A) is exempt from the payment of federal income taxes under Section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and its subsequent amendments by being listed as an exempt entity under Section 501(c)(3) of that code;

(B) exclusively provides services related to locating missing children; and

(C) does not perform any other service that requires a license under this chapter.

Sec. 1702.328. SECURITY SYSTEMS SALES AND INSTALLATION.
This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a person who owns and installs a burglar detection or alarm device on the person's own property or, if the person does not charge for the device or the installation, installs the device for the protection of the person's personal property located on another person's property and does not, as a normal business practice, install the devices on the property of another;

(2) a person in the business of building construction that installs electrical wiring and devices that may include in part the installation of a burglar alarm or detection device if:

(A) the person is a party to a contract that provides that:

(i) the installation will be performed under the direct supervision of, and inspected and certified by, a person licensed to install and certify the alarm or detection device; and

(ii) the license holder assumes full responsibility for the installation of the alarm or detection device; and

(B) the person does not service or maintain burglar alarms or detection devices;

(3) a person who sells or installs automobile burglar alarm devices and who does not perform any other act that requires a license under this chapter; or

(4) a person who sells exclusively over the counter or by mail order burglar alarm signal devices, burglary alarms, television cameras, still cameras, or other electrical, mechanical, or electronic devices used for preventing or detecting burglary, theft, or other losses.

Sec. 1702.329. FIRE ALARM AND DETECTION SALES AND INSTALLATION.
This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a person whose activities are regulated under Article 5.43-2, Insurance Code, except to the extent those activities are specifically regulated under this chapter; or

(2) a person who holds a license or other credential issued by a municipality to practice as an electrician and who installs fire or smoke detectors only in single-family or multifamily residences.

Sec. 1702.330. SECURITY PERSONNEL OF PRIVATE INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION.
This chapter does not apply to:

(1) a person who is employed full-time by and is commissioned as a campus security personnel employee by a private institution of higher education under Section 51.212, Education Code; or

(2) a peace officer commissioned by an incorporated municipality who is hired under Section 51.212, Education Code, on a regular basis by a private institution of higher education while that peace officer is operating within the scope of the peace officer's employment with the institution of higher education.


<CENTER>TO APPLY FOR A LICENSE
Review the following web links: </center>

Requirements for a Texas Agency (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/forms/forms/PSB-27x-GeneralInstructionsforC-L.pdf)

Requirements & Application Forms (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/)

To Verify a Texas PI License - Click Here (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/individual/individual_search.aspx)

[Legal Affairs]

Originally posted by Kenny Butler
To be in the legal limits of Texas state laws I have to be employed by someone that is licenened by the state.
Yes and No. It depends on who you are working for as a Private Investigator. Not all companies are required to be licensed in Texas that employ private investigators.

There are 37 EXEMPTIONS in the Texas Statutes (see above).


Originally posted by Kenny Butler
If I accept an assignment from a client provided to me by IPIU, who am I working for? The Client, or IPIU.
Neither.

IPIU does not place you with a client. They place you with a company. Clients are customers of companies. Do not confuse the two.


Originally posted by Kenny Butler
If by IPIU, is IPIU recognized by my state to legally employee me for services in the state of Texas.
IPIU is not your employer. IPIU is your union association.


Originally posted by Kenny Butler
... is there a way that IPIU can help me in job placement for a texas based investigation company or firm.
Of course. Email usa@ipiu.org .

[Legal Affairs]

Originally posted by Jon Jezek
I found the following at a regional Texas investigator's "association" website:

We fully support any association, provided they are straight forward with the "complete facts" and allowances under state law. The Texas "association" has only their opinion based on the facts they "choose" to offer. They have no regulatory powers (and neither does IPIU or any other association). Their quote may be out-of-context, and if so may show them to have an agenda and a mission that may be contrary to IPIU's Mission Statement, and may be contrary to the State of Texas elected "lawmakers" who authored the statutes (and not the State Board of Licensing), and the exemptions permitted by licensed private investigators and unregulated PI's. Please see our Mission Statement (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6688)


"In Texas, private investigations companies cannot hire investigators as “contract labor”.
What is an "investigator" versus a "private investigator"? Again, they do not use the statutes language to support their statement. There are over 30 "investigator" exemptions in the statutes (see above). If they are referring to an investigator who is being employed to perform a task reserved for licensed private investigators only, then they are correct in that opinion. If they are referring to using an investigator to perform a task in any of the 30+ exemptions, then they are incorrect.

In all fairness, when you read any opinions posted at their association website, they are probably referring to all licensed acitivities by licensed private investigators. Most state association applications appear to prefer to have members who are licensed private investigators and not unregulated private investigators.


" Each investigator must be a regular employee as defined by the IRS. This means that relevant taxes must be withheld from paychecks and other state and federal employment guidelines must be followed.
If a licensed private investigator hires anyone to perform their assignments (even as a trainee), they can certainly place that investigator under their payroll system. That is primarily a tax question and whether or not the employer controls all of the methods of the task that the investigator uses in performing the assignment.


"However, a licensed company can subcontract work to another licensed company." Is the last sentence the key?
In some cases, yes.


"From what I've seen most of the assignments are in fact "contract labor".
Yes and no. Again, this is left up to the employer as they know their rights and tax situation more than any applicant.


"How can we legally work in Texas when not already employed by a investigation company?
Either work for a licensed private investigative agency, or any other licensed firm (including attorneys, insurance fraud departments, etc) or work for any company that operates within the 37 exemptions permitted by the lawmakers.


".... regarding licensing in Texas there is a requirement for 3 years "verifiable work experience performed on a full-time basis" before one can apply for licensure (as a private investigator). It's the "chicken or the egg" question, no exeperience, no employer, no license. No license, no experience, no employer. It would seem these are two huge "Catch-22's" or would that then become a "Catch-44". Please advise.

Yes, it may appear that both the statutes and the licensing board and the state association promote 3 years of experience before you can obtain a license. But the full reading of all of the statutes and the applications proves otherwise.

IPIU members have access to the member's forum titled Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License Forum (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17) where you do not need 3 years experience to acquire a license as a private investigator or to own a licensed agency.

Are you confused yet? ;)

Don't be. The reading and understanding of ALL of the statutes sets a hope free to explore the possibilities.

[Legal Affairs]

Originally posted by Sharon K Hurley
I heard from a P.I. in Dallas, that Dallas requires you to have a license even to do Mystery Shopping assignments.

Anyone know about this?
The Texas State Attorney General has made no formal declaration. The statutes by the Texas Lawmakers (not the Texas Licensing Board) is what prevails over all opinion, regardless of the source.

The Texas Attorney General is the ONLY officer of the state to chose whether or not to offer a "position paper", as it is their office that will approve or disapprove any charges to be brought against any mystery shopper.

To date: The Attorney General has NOT stated any position on mystery shopping.

To date: The Texas Licensing Board has not furnished any evidence of bringing a citation against ANY mystery shopper or company.

To date: There is NOTHING in the statutes that provides the licensing board to name specifically "mystery shopping" as an area of business that they have regulatory powers over.

To date: The ONLY opinion offered is a "position paper" authored by the licensing agency and NOT the attorney general.

To date: One of the largest national mystery shopping firms in the United States (SSA), whose corporate offices have been in Texas for over a decade, has never been served with any official papers indicating they need a private investigators license. The absence of such notice to any mystery shopping company in Texas appears to reflect that the licensing board's position paper lacks sufficient merit, which in itself appears to be a contradiction.

It is our view that if the licensing board was serious in their position, they would have cited numerous mystery shoppers and companies over the last ten years. However, if the citations were challenged in a court and the licensing board's charges were dismissed by a district judge, then the board would have a public record on file stating the opposite of what their position paper reflects. Their opinion may very well be that they do not care to see mystery shoppers continue their business, but if they (the board) were to lose to a court decision.. then the board may be proven to have shown abusive regulatory powers over a mystery shopping company that may have been operating within the state statutes. The lack of charges brought on by the board, in our opinion, seems to be prudent at this point.

It is IPIU's Mission Statement to support any board's right to publish their opinion (which is what they have done). It is IPIU's Mission Statement to support all licensing boards in their respective roles according to the statutes that they must operate by. That is why we encourage union members to understand the complete context of the statutes and not be too quick to offer an opinion that has no statutory merit based on the law, which in all states are authored by the law makers and not the licensing board.

Here is the Texas Licensing Board's "opinion":


There is a common misconception held by many contractors of investigations company services in which they believe that they do not meet the definition of an “investigations company” as provided in the Private Security Act [Article 4413 (29bb) V.A.C.S.], simply by not calling themselves “investigators.”

Whether a company or individual calls themselves a “mystery shopper”, “shopping service”, or “efficiency consultant” is not what determines whether or not they may be required by Texas law to be licensed as an investigations company. Rather, it is the activity in which a company or individual engages that determines the statutory application of the requirement for an “investigations company.”

Section 2 of the Private Security Act defines an “investigations company” as:

“. . . any person who engages in the business or accepts employment to obtain or furnish information with reference to:

(i) crime or wrongs done or threatened against the United States of America or any state or territory of the United States of America;

(ii) the identity, habits, conduct, business, occupation, honesty, integrity, credibility, knowledge, trustworthiness, efficiency, loyalty, activity, movement, whereabouts, affiliations, associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of any person;

(iii) the location, disposition, or recovery of lost or stolen property; (iv) the cause or responsibility for fires, libels, losses, accidents, damages, or injuries to persons or to property;

(iv) the securing of evidence to be used before any court, board, officer, or investigating
committee; . . .”

The details and subject of the information being gathered can be used to determine whether a company or person operating as a “mystery shopper” or “shopping service” is required by law to be licensed as an investigations company.

Below is a comparison table of sample activities that show what does or does not require a license under the Private Security Act. This table is not all-inclusive but merely serves as a guideline.

Required to be licensed as Investigations Company: Check on sales clerk courtesy.

Engage manager in conversation to determine loyalty to company, employees or just general attitude.

Check employees handling of meat for Health Code violations.

Monitor employees’ conversations in aisles in back of store.

Not required to be licensed as Investigations Company: Check on merchandise racks for order and neatness.

Engage manager in conversation to determine if the store temperature is comfortable.

Check temperature at which meat is being stored.

Monitor condition of aisles in back of store for cleanliness.

As can be seen from the distinctions in the table between the “Required to be Licensed” activities and those which do not require an investigations company license, the difference occurs when furnishing information about a company and its individual employees as opposed to the environment and conditions in which those people work.

When offering or providing services to a client, a “mystery shopper” or “shopping service” must make a clear distinction between those service that can be legally offered without an investigations company and those services that require an investigations company license issued by the commission.

Author: Chief Larry Shimek

Although we respect Chief Shimek's opinion, it is, nevertheless, and opinion that is derived on his interpretation of the state statutes, such as determining what specific activities are approved by his opinion (i.e. checking the temperature in a store, which is not mentioned anywhere in the statutes).

Additionally, the United States Federal Government employs mystery shoppers for their federal facilities, which include the US Post Office for integrity assignments.

So it is our opinion that no opinion has statutory merit unless the statutes are modified by the law makers. And the absence of an opinion authored by the Texas Attorney General (who is an attorney well versed in the regulatory powers of the licensing board) speaks for itself.

[Legal Affairs]

Originally posted by Sharon K Hurley
Yes, I spoke to several Private Investigators in the Dallas/Bedford area and they all have said yes.

That is unfortunate. Private Investigators should always support their licensing statements to the statutes, which in this case they did not.

Even a telephone call to the state licensing board with that question would not have given you the "yes, you need a license". The board does not give verbal opinions over the phone, such as the "conversation" you have with a few PI's. Everything is in writing, and is based on the statutes.

What your private investigators stated was their view of the "opinion" authored by a non-attorney for the board (see above reply). That is why IPIU requires a signed Code of Ethics by it's members, which details conduct.


Originally posted by Sharon K Hurley
It is true that you have to have a license in Texas to do mystery shopping assignments..
I will caution you not to make any such statement. It is not true.


Originally posted by Sharon K Hurley
so I have stopped doing them.

And now you see the effect of relying on "professional" advice, that is nothing more than an opinion.

[admin]

Originally posted by Robert Smith
I know that you must have at least 3 years experience before you can do any of the steps to obtain your private investigator's license, ?
Not unless you just want to open your own Texas Agency. No experience necessary, but there are some extra forms to use.

IPIU union members get free help in the forum titled OBTAINING YOUR LICENSE.


Originally posted by Robert Smith
to know if security work would actually count as any of the time or does it strictly have to be private investigation experience?
I would call the licensing bureau, as the experience they permit may be waived in certain areas.

But before you do that, understand that you can still obtain a Texas License with no experience if that license were assigned to an existing agency willing to hire you.

[admin]

Originally posted by Zoraya Marroquin
I apologize in advance if this question has already been answered, I might have missed it.



Does this mean that if I don't have a PI license, it is possible to work for a licensed Private Investigator under his/her license?
In Texas, a licensed PI can license you under their agency license. :)

[Linda Manning]

Originally posted by John Chambers
Or are there companies that recognize one license over another?
We are a Law Firm member of IPIU, and we recognize the Texas PI License, any Law Enforcement Photo ID, any attorney license or other state issue profesional license that is monitored through the FBI's wants and warrants database. We also recognize the IPIU Photo Credential Card because it is monitored too, especially for unregulated private investigators.


Originally posted by John Chambers
Okay, so then the IPIU license is just as "valid" as one issued by the Texas Board of Private Investigators?
The IPIU Photo Credentials is not a state license. However, it is monitored for wants and warrants just like the state licenses are monitored.

As an example, if a state licensed private investigator commits a felony and it goes to warrant, then then state can become aware of the warrant and suspend the PI license until the warrant is cleared.

If an unregulated private investigator who has no state license, but has the IPIU Photo ID, commits a felony that goes to warrant, then IPIU can become aware of of the warrant and suspend the union member, plus notify all of the agencies and firms he/she was referred to.

And last, there are several licensed private investigators in Texas that are also members of IPIU. They carry both their IPIU card plus their state license.

[Hugh H Wilder -]

I want to add- there are revisions to the current Texas Statues for the occupation code for PIs (1702) effective Sept 1st 2003--No longer will it be required to have 3 "consecutive" years of experience. The revisions on the web currently depict the old statues with the word "consecutive" lined out. West Law will have the changes made to reflect the new Statues and update the information by by Sept. when it goes into effect.

Thanks for all the above. It has really cleared up a lot.
Catch 22 is worse in other states- While working as a manager for Aetna Finance, I had a former "PI employee" from Nevada working for me. He indicated- at that time- Nevada had issued only about 5 PI licenses and they were usually willed to other family members when they died! In other words he told me that it was far easier to get a license here in Texas. That's why he moved! (Seems he could never get his own license there- even after working over 10 years full-time as a top PI for one of the five agencies.)

Anyway -enough Texas tales for now.
Thanks for all!

[Hugh H Wilder -]

Hi Hugh,
Could you explain what you were talking about the Texas law changing and no longer requiring three "consecutive years"? I'd like to know more about those changes, and is there somewhere I can read about it? As I stated before I have not really been able to navigate their website (licensing board) Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Susan Arredondo



Hi Susan! Zoraya had the same question out on a level 4 forum topic. I have copied it below so all can use these instructions. I don't have much time to find the "changes to current law" (or similar verbiage) section right now, but once you get into the statutes you will find a section where lines are actually drawn through words depicting the new changes to be posted in September. The link instructions and furhter explainations are below!...

Where to find Texas laws for Private Investigator, Bail Bond Surety, etc.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everybody, Does anyone know where I might find the laws on bounty hunting for the state of TX. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Zoraya, this is kind of my specialty as I worked for a global media information giant. I taught Banking Compliance officers and Lawyers how to find/use information both within our proprietary sites/software as well as how to go directly to other free sources.
Each of the 50 State searches are different. Some more complicated than others. One thing you need to keep in mind is that the State Statutes that you are searching today may be a year behind. This gives an edge for Companies to make money by providing more up-to-date information to clients’ -by crunching numbers (for data) and modifying laws (for text) -Customers pay big bucks so that they can have the most recent information now! I say this because West Law (a private company contracted by Texas) will complete all the changes from the last legislative session-so that it can be posted on this site on/around September 1, 2003.
(about a year or so behind!)
If you need more up-to-date info, such as what specific laws will change this September, just let me know and I will see what I can do. I do know that in September there will be positive modifications for the PI laws. For example, instead of the requirement for three "consecutive" years of experience, (to become a PI) the new law reads just "three years of experience total"! Because of this change, I can apply for my license in September!!!

Anyway, sorry for being so long winded! I have discovered this State information can be confusing- even for professionals who use it every day. Please follow the instructions below to find your answers...


The Texas Statutes Search

1). Go to- http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-...wd&CQ_LOGIN=YES
2). Select- “Simple (Boolean) search.”
3). Below that in the drop-down box select the words “Occupations Code”
4). In the “Text to search for” space type-"Private Investigator" (be sure to include quotation marks!)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just an FYI before we continue our search- Private Investigators, Bail Bond Surety, and Security Guard Services are covered under The Texas Occupation Code chapters 1702 & 1704
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5). Click on “Occupations Chapter 1702” ( to expand it and then...
6). On your keyboard press and hold the “Ctrl” button, (lower left part of the keyboard) then hit the “f” key on your keyboard. This will bring up the “Find ” pop-up screen.
7). Type the words “Bail Bond Surety”, or "Private Investigator" (no quotation marks please) in the box labeled “Find What.”
8). In the upper right hand corner of the pop-up box, click on the 3-d box labeled “Find Next.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, each time you click "Find Next" it automatically highlights each hit. The fourth hit deals with what PIs can do in TX. (VS. What they can’t do under the previous 3 hits)

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Zoraya, it really is easy once you get the hang of it. If I have given you too much information, please realize that others may also have questions about the other "stuff-ola."

Once you get the hang of it, don't move 'cause each State is set up differently and you will have to learn it all over again!:)

[Technical Support]

Update: 2-16-2005
Mystery Shopping Bill Passed to allow
No License Requirement

<HR>
News:

The Texas Board of Licensing has a "Position Paper" posted on their website regarding Mystery Shopping. This "position paper" is nothing more than what the "board's" personal opinion is on Mystery Shopping - which is an area that is EXEMPT from the Texas Statutes.

http://www.tcps.state.tx.us/shoppers.htm

So when newcomers call the Texas Board, they are confronted by a receptionist or clerk or enforcement officer that informs the caller NOT to perform Mystery Shopping assignments! (I see this as an unnecessary and careless threat)

This has caused frustration and anger by the Senate lawmakers of Texas who participated in authoring the statutes for the "board" to follow their law - not the "board's opinion".

IPIU's
Mission Statement (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6688), in part, contains:

Our mission is not to limit ... education to only those statutes that may or may not have any direct authority and regulation over (the) conduct or duties as a private investigator, but rather to educate in the full context all the applicable laws and/or lawful remedies that may apply ethically to their individual circumstances and goals.

Although we firmly sustain all government licensing bodies who regulate private investigators within their lawful authority, and we promote licensing whenever the entire facts of a member's individual circumstances dictate such a requirement, we do not necessarily believe that all citizens require regulation by a government licensing body in the affairs of a citizen’s chosen career unless there is a proven need for additional consumer protection, which would include a fair and balanced recourse.
This is a prime example of a board officer who, in my personal opinion, has over stepped his authority and position in going after a professional group of Mystery Shoppers for their licensing fees - either out of money interests or power.

Now comes the news of the day:

There is a letter circulating the Texas Congress:

Dear Representative ____________,

I respectfully urge you to allow final passage of Senate Bill 943 in support of allowing mystery shopping companies to work within the State of Texas.

Our bill has been unanimously passed by the full Senate as well as the House Law Enforcement Committee. We need your support.

Within the last three years we have successfully worked with Senators in California and Arizona to pass the same Bill being presented today. To date in California and Arizona, there have been no complaints from labor, industry or state Better Business Bureau's.

The purpose of mystery shopping is to allow trained consumers to evaluate basic customer service standards such as retail associate friendliness, sales skills and product knowledge to name three components. Additionally we will report on cleanliness standards such as the sales floor and washrooms. This information is presented back to our clients on a format they have pre-approved. This information is not used for disciplinary purposes but rather to reward superior customer service skills or coach those associates who need additional training. National chain stores to independent local businesses use our service on a regular basis throughout the United States.

I encourage you to pass this Bill to allow our professional service to assist our clients in ensuring consumers in Texas are receiving a quality customer service experience.

Thank you.

It has been stated before on these forums that Mystery Shopping was known as Integrity Investigations some decades ago. But when private investigators began to see an over enthusiastic licensing board raising their fees, or regulating more activities - a small movement of private investigators renamed their Integrity Investigative assignments as - Mystery Shopping! And that created a multi-million dollar business that is exempt nearly everywhere.


So my person opinion (not IPIU's or the Private Investigators Forums) is that this action by the Texas Senate is in response to an over zealous licensing officer. That is why it is extremely important to believe FIRST the statutes in your state BEFORE you believe any one person who may be misrepresenting the facts.

To follow the congressional calendar on SB 943,

Go Here>
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/billhist/actions.d2w/report?LEG=78&SESS=R&CHAMBER=S&BILLTYPE=B&BILLSUFFIX=00943

As of today - the bill died because of a late session, but there may be some news later on this regard.

Wasn't this the state where all the Democrats crossed the border into Oklahoma to leave the business on the tables??? I wonder if that is why they did not get to the bill in time?

[Legal Affairs]

Originally posted by Jeff Baylis
OK, I have read this page and from what I gather, it is possible to get a state licence in Texas in less than 3 years if you are not going to be managing or starting your own firm.
Any licensed Texas agency can hire you, with no waiting period except for a background check, under their agency, which gives you a license to perform investigations under the agency license.

If you have not done so, please post your introduction in the Introduction Forum so trainers can help direct you.

[David Copeland]

Originally posted by Jeff Baylis

It is possible to get a state licence in Texas in less than 3 years if you are not going to be managing or starting your own firm? If so, how soon can it be done?
Any licensed agency can hire you as a licensed PI under their license. No unreasonable waiting time.


Originally posted by Jeff Baylis
What type of income can someone who is licensed in Texas expect to make?
As an employee, I have seen $20/hour and up. As an owner, you can triple that.

Do a search for Texas PI's and read their web pages for rates.

[Robert Donovan]

Originally posted by Tammy A Nelson
I don't know if I should ask this in here but, A friend of mine wants to be a PI and I told him about IPIU. He is worried that he may have problems getting liscened. He was convicted of a felony assault about 10 years ago,and he spent 2 years on probation..he hasn't had anything on his record since ,but the question is will an agency be able to liscence him?Will this make it harder for him to get assignments.any answers on this would be greatly appreciated.
sincerely: In nearly all states, a convicted felon who has applied for a PI license would have the review done aby an appeals board. The board determined the nature of the offense, how long it has been, how long the applicant has had a clean record, their employment, and their rehablitation.

I suggest your friend write a personal letter to the Director of Licensing (see their web site) and simply ask "what it would take to be approved for a PI License?" The director may quote statutes, but there is always an appeal board.

Another approach is to inquire for a Governors Pardon. Contact the state capitol and ask for an application. A pardon typically forgives a conviction, and because the governor appoints the Director of Licensing - it could serve as another approach.

And last, your friend could always start his own licensed agency as an owner, and hire a current licensed PI to manage the cases. As an owner, he could determine his own salary from the $65 to $100 an hour client fees, and pay his manager a smaller portion of the retainer ($25 to $35/hr). Union members have free help in setting up their agency and license in our Level 4 private forums.

PS: Look at the exemptions for Texas where your friend does not need a PI License to work.

Happy holidays,

[Hugh H Wilder -]

In the first post on the second page of this topic, Mr. Brown wrote "You can obtain a state license from Texas if you take and pass the Level 1, Level 2, and/or Manager's state exam." Is that all you have to do to get your license? Just take the tests and then you get licensed? There is nothing else you have to do? Somehow that doesn't sound right. I'm confused.

Jamie, This will allow you to create a PI Company, but you must hire licensed PIs. In other words you drum up the business, keep the books, and they do what they do best. There are License fees and insurance costs, and you must put up a hefty bond with the State. Last I figured, It will cost you around 3,000 to get started not including payroll reserves---but this is within reach for most!
Who knows if you choose to train under your "capable hired hands" you too can become a bona fide PI in three years!

[Lance Jefferson]

Originally posted by Jeff Baylis
I totally comprehend that I can immediately work as a trainee under someone else after I get a license from IPIU.
IPIU photo credentials are not a state license. Go to the Trainee forum and look for the Credentials sub forum.


Originally posted by Jeff Baylis
I
Can someone get a STATE LICENSE in TEXAS in LESS THAN 3 YEARS if they ARE NOT a manager or starting their own firm?
Yes.

You can be employed by any licensed agency without any experience, and they will license you under their agency license.

Or, if you want to be an independent licensed PI, then you need to have the 3 years experience.

[Lance Jefferson]

Originally posted by Bobby Watts
Am I understanding the exemption right in Texas that if I performed background checks for different businesses I would not need a PI License since I am verifying information on an application.

Thanks,

Bobby Correct, as long as your company name does not say "investigations" or anything close. Anyone can sell info to anyone.

[Donna Reagan]

Originally posted by Willie Williams
Go before the appeals Board that might take months to get an appointment. Most college graduates are determined to invest 4 or more years in getting what they want. An appeals board is just another process to go through if you are as determined in making this your profession. Nothing comes quick and easy.

Originally posted by Willie Williams
the lure is the PI license. Is it not?
Yes and no. The exemptions listed above prove that there are companies who perform investigations without the need of a PI License. And no license is ever needed as a private investigator for an attorney.

[Donna Reagan]

Frank, always allow the employer you are working for, such as the fraud unit of a company, to determine if you need a license or not outside of your regular employee duties. The statutes allow for this, same as working for an attorney.

[Joe Dan Earnest]

Yes and No. It depends on who you are working for as a Private Investigator. Not all companies are required to be licensed in Texas that employ private investigators.

There are 37 EXEMPTIONS in the Texas Statutes (see above).


Neither.

IPIU does not place you with a client. They place you with a company. Clients are customers of companies. Do not confuse the two.


IPIU is not your employer. IPIU is your union association.


Of course. Email usa@ipiu.org .
Will IPIU actually find the clients or will we have to find them?

[Robert Donovan]

If you have a Law enforcement background ,do you have to wait 3 years to start up your own business?
No.

And neither does a trainee who wants to own their own PI Agency.

IPIU Union members have access to the Level 4 Forum titled OBTAINING YOUR OWN LICENSE/AGENCY LICENSE where the trainers offer extra help.

Or, you can contact the state board. But make sure you explore ALL of their statutes and loop holes and not just take the word of the receptionist.

[Robert Donovan]

Joe,

go to Manager training...not Manager testing..

Jeff
Although we suggest taking the Manager's test, it is different then owner. An owner does not need to manage their own agency. An owner can be licensed under their agency license without any experience, and still own the agency.

[Robert Donovan]

Will IPIU actually find the clients or will we have to find them?
Some of our memberships offer free client referrals and promotion of your agency.

Read our Membership Options here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6542

[Robert Donovan]

I have heard somewhere that at least here in Texas if you are w/o a state license and not working under one either, the work you pursue avoid the word "investigation". That is correct.



would it be O.K. to practice background "checks", Criminal Histories "checks", Asset and Credit "checks", or PreEmployment "checks" (as an independent contractor)?
Background checks, criminal history checks, and most asset checks can be done by anyone without a PI License. There are thousands of courthouse gophers that check files every day for the large database companies.

Credit Checks are a bit more complicated, but do not require a PI License.

Independent Contractor is okay, but a corporation is better. You can then make yourself an employee of your corporation and hire a sparetime licensed private investigator for tasks that need a PI License. We cover the details in the Level 4 Forum as I mentioned in an earlier post.

[Robert Donovan]

I found this provision in the statutues.


NO LICENSE NEEDED FOR: a person engaged exclusively in the business of repossessing property that is secured by a mortgage or other security interest;


Does this mean that NO license is required to repossess automobiles? :confused:

Thanks!
If the state has another license for Repo operatives, then they do not need a PI license. Most, not all, states have Repo Licenses.

[Don Hoofard]

"Contract Labor" in Texas.

Texas is one state that has its Catch 22's.

If you want to work as an independant investigator you can't in Texas. You must be either an employee of a private investigations agency/company or be the licensed owner, manager, and private investigator of your own agency/company.

I know. I am a retired Texas Peace Officer that first began as a Bounty Hunter independant which at the time (1994) required no licensing to do, but in 1999 I was advised by the Texas Commission that I now had to be a private investigator to bounty hunt fugitives.

That's also when I found out that I had to either work through an agency or become one myself to work. I wasn't about to turn my client base over to another agency that I had already worked hard to get. So, I took the managers test and provided all my previous law enforcement credentials/education, and paid the fees to become my own agency.

I am the licensed owner, manager, and chief investigator of the Hoofard Agency, a private investigation only agency. I hope what I have said helps on the texas catch 22's. I operate currently in Tx., ILL., CA., LA., NV., CO. and have held licenses in some 38 states over the last 10 yrs. in security and investigations/personal protection work.

Thanks,
Don Hoofard, Sr.

[Legal Affairs]

... in 1999 I was advised by the Texas Commission that I now had to be a private investigator to bounty hunt fugitives.

That's also when I found out that I had to either work through an agency or become one myself to work. IPIU's Mission Statement (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13864) fully supports all state licensing for private investigators, but we also endorse and recommend using the full extent of the law as outlined in the statutes.

Nevertheless, we have found serious misrepresentations at times when members call their state licensing boards and are told by unqualified state employees that they cannot perform private investigations without a state PI License.

To the contrary, the lawmakers of states did not intend to give absolute authority to the governor's appointed licensing board to interpret the law to the extent it would be contrary to the lawmakers’ intent. Only the state attorney general can offer such an interpretation of the state statutes.

The lawmakers did not intend for their statutes to grant the board a mission to license every scope of private investigation. To the contrary again, the lawmakers have specifically embodied in their statutes many exemptions to private investigators being required to be licensed. Yet, a telephone survey revealed 50% of the telephone calls to the state board were met by receptionists and other employees insisting the caller needed a PI License in all circumstances.

The lawmakers further recognized that any citizen can own a private investigative agency without being required to become a private investigator. The lawmaker's have always understood the difference between ownership and management. They fully understand the role of a corporation, its board of directors, its elected president, and its employed managers. And with that, the lawmakers regulate the powers of the licensing board through their statutes to insure that all licensed private investigative agencies are managed by a qualified licensee. Yet the owner is exempt of becoming licensed. For a state employee to insist otherwise to a caller is misleading.

Therefore, the licensing board's authority is limited to what the statutes grant the board in its scope, and nothing more.

As an owner (or majority stock holder) of an agency, you control who is the appointed manager and employee. Once the agency receives its PI License, the owner (or majority stock holder) can then direct the general manager to hire anyone (including yourself) as an intern licensed private investigator. Owning an agency affords the rewards of company profits, as well as earning additional payroll as a licensed intern while gaining the experience to become independently licensed in the years ahead.

Your vast experience over the years has proven you have achieved your goal of becoming a licensed private investigator and owner of an agency. Encourage others to continue in their quest to become licensed if they wish to do so. But also encourage others to fully explore the many options afforded them by the statutes as defined by the lawmakers of the state.

In the end, licensed agencies and investigators must find common ground in working with the licensing board rather than apart from it. Licensing boards are political in nature, as the director is usually appointed by the governor. And whenever politics enters the equation, careful consideration must be used in communication skills to achieve the desired aim without alienation.

[Legal Affairs]

Does having a B.S. degree help in getting your private investagators license?
No, but it helps in owning a business and with your background check if you decide to apply for your own agency or license.

[B Ann Craig]

This is important and I'm sure I understand part of it. what I don't understand still is whether a trainee is considered contract labor or does he sign on as an employee at each company he performs work with!
Chris, that is up to the agency who is offering employment. In Texas, and agency can simply add you to their employment and license you as a trainee under their agency license. Or, they may choose to hire you as a 1099 contractor depending on the task they are assigning you and whether or not it is based on a tax situation. Either way, if you can obtain an assignment we suggest you ask the agency what your status will be.

This is between each member, and the agency. I hope this helps you. Good luck in all you do. ;)

Have a wonderful weekend. Take care. :)

[William Brassfield]

What if you get licensed under another agencies license and you leave that agency. Do you still get to keep your license or do you have to stay with that agency a certain amount of time?

Too bad you're not north of the Red river, then I could answer that question with my eyes closed. ;)

But seriously...


On page one of this subject is a list stating things that no license is required for.

However, I haven't found anything that would give you the correct answer to your question, so I have put your question to Admin, and Legal, and they should give you the correct answer shortly. :)

[David Copeland]

What if you get licensed under another agencies license and you leave that agency. Do you still get to keep your license or do you have to stay with that agency a certain amount of time?

States generally give you 30 days to notify them of the new agency you are working for, so they can simply move your records.

[Donna Reagan]

Hey All,

I have taken the exams on http://www.tcps.state.tx.us/. I answered the question about having to have a License to work in Texas as no. When I was done It told me I was wrong that you do have to have a License. I have done the first two exams and will now follow up with the DPS on the Last two exams. That way I can just get it and not have to woory about it later. Thanks everyone

Marianne Stanley
Without having an exact copy of the phrase and use of the question that you failed, I cannot post an opinion. After all, the state can be very tricky in their questions that may seem to be simple and straight forth.

But if it is true that the full context of the question was as you stated, then the very question is contrary to what the lawmakers of the State of Texas authorized the board to do when offering a state exam. The statutes clearly state that anyone can work as a private investitgator within the exemptions allowed.

On the other hand, the question (as you posted) states that whatever company a private investigator works for should be "licensed". But what "license"??? A corporation who employs a private investigator for internal affairs may need a corporate business "license", but not a "PI License".

Silly, isn't it!

In the end, you need to pass their exam. And in doing so, give them the answers they want to hear. But in your moments of private seclusion, you know the truth. :)

[Beverly Shipman]

Hey All,

I have taken the exams on http://www.tcps.state.tx.us/. I answered the question about having to have a License to work in Texas as no. When I was done It told me I was wrong that you do have to have a License. I have done the first two exams and will now follow up with the DPS on the Last two exams. That way I can just get it and not have to woory about it later. Thanks everyone

Marianne Stanley

Hi Marianne,

That was a hard way to learn but you've cleared up what we in TX needed to know, so we thank you Ma'm.

[B]Beverly A. Shipman
______________________

[Beverly Shipman]

The Texas State Attorney General has made no formal declaration. The statutes by the Texas Lawmakers (not the Texas Licensing Board) is what prevails over all opinion, regardless of the source.

The Texas Attorney General is the ONLY officer of the state to chose whether or not to offer a "position paper", as it is their office that will approve or disapprove any charges to be brought against any mystery shopper.

To date: The Attorney General has NOT stated any position on mystery shopping.

To date: The Texas Licensing Board has not furnished any evidence of bringing a citation against ANY mystery shopper or company.[/B]To date: There is NOTHING in the statutes that provides the licensing board to name specifically "mystery shopping" as an area of business that they have regulatory powers over.

To date: The ONLY opinion offered is a "position paper" authored by the licensing agency and NOT the attorney general.

To date: One of the largest national mystery shopping firms in the United States (SSA), whose corporate offices have been in Texas for over a decade, has never been served with any official papers indicating they need a private investigators license. The absence of such notice to any mystery shopping company in Texas appears to reflect that the licensing board's position paper lacks sufficient merit, which in itself appears to be a contradiction.

It is our view that if the licensing board was serious in their position, they would have cited numerous mystery shoppers and companies over the last ten years. However, if the citations were challenged in a court and the licensing board's charges were dismissed by a district judge, then the board would have a public record on file stating the opposite of what their position paper reflects. Their opinion may very well be that they do not care to see mystery shoppers continue their business, but if they (the board) were to lose to a court decision.. then the board may be proven to have shown abusive regulatory powers over a mystery shopping company that may have been operating within the state statutes. The lack of charges brought on by the board, in our opinion, seems to be prudent at this point.

It is IPIU's Mission Statement to support any board's right to publish their opinion (which is what they have done). It is IPIU's Mission Statement to support all licensing boards in their respective roles according to the statutes that they must operate by. That is why we encourage union members to understand the complete context of the statutes and not be too quick to offer an opinion that has no statutory merit based on the law, which in all states are authored by the law makers and not the licensing board.

Here is the Texas Licensing Board's "opinion":



Although we respect Chief Shimek's opinion, it is, nevertheless, and opinion that is derived on his interpretation of the state statutes, such as determining what specific activities are approved by his opinion (i.e. checking the temperature in a store, which is not mentioned anywhere in the statutes).

Additionally, the United States Federal Government employs mystery shoppers for their federal facilities, which include the US Post Office for integrity assignments.

So it is our opinion that no opinion has statutory merit unless the statutes are modified by the law makers. And the absence of an opinion authored by the Texas Attorney General (who is an attorney well versed in the regulatory powers of the licensing board) speaks for itself.




This is what I thought. Just to put my two cents into words, when in doubt, you can always check with the Attorney General's Office (OAG), wherever you are. They'll inform you as to the laws of the State.

[Jerry Woytas]

Thanks to all:

I read this forum several times for the information. Legal Affairs, as always, has complete answers. I truly appreciate their info. I thank everyone for their additional inputs. I'm new and have very little information. Again, thanks to everyone and especially Legal Affairs.

JeryLyn ;)

[Tricia Crews]

If I have already taken and passed the exams levels 1,2,and 3
what would my next steps be to advance in Texas ? :confused:

[Lori Copaus]

I have requested my Agency application from Austin and this is what I was told. You can open your own agency in your name, but you have to hire a Licensed PI to work as your manager. When you submit your application for the agency, you also submit your fingerprints, the manager's fingerprints, a fee for both persons and the Licensed PI has to take a manager's test, which you also pay for out of your pocket. So to open your own agency, you will have around $600.00 out of pocket expenses to submit the application. Then you have to figure in your business cards, advertisement and so forth.
What I am wanting to know is, how can we find a licensed PI who is willing to take the test, fingerprints, work as our managers, even though we own the company and let us tag along on investigations, etc, and pay them less than what we are making to get our experience.

Any suggestions?

Thank You
Lori E. Copaus

[Dale Cohen]

As far as working as a Mystery Shopper in Texas is concerned, I worked as a Mystery Shopper for almost six years for a company based in Tenn. with branches all over Texas. I was asked by their regional manager to do the Mystery Shopping for them. Having a license to do so was never mentioned.

[Joseph R]

Hi Lori:

I've been perusing this thread with interest. A lot of people are confusing "registration" with "Licensing". A company must be licensed and have a manager who meets the experience requirements. Individual Private Investigators must be "registered" through the company they work for. They can, I believe, be on the rolls of more than one agency at a time, as is usually the casewith "contract-type" positions. Finding a qualified manager should not be to difficult depending on where you are. The qualified manager must be available to run the "day to day" operations and there should be no more than one manager for a company. If that manager is not qualified in all areas of the company, assuming you had a Class C company (Guard and investigations), then a supervisor must be on the staff also with the appropriate experience level for the other duties. I have not pursued whether one individual can manage more than one company - that would be another aspect to look at.

Cheers

JR

[Joseph R]

Tricia:

Have you been through an approved school for the Level III ?

If you three levels completed you should be able to get on with any of several agencies in Texas. YOu Level III certification is good for up to 90 days from the date of yur weapons qualification, after that you will have to requalifiy - I'm not sure on the time limit for the academic training but I believe it is two years. If you can't find it let me know and I will dig it up for you

Cheers

JR

[Joseph R]

Lance:

As I look at these posting on the Texas Private Investigator Licensing I think everyone needs to know the difference between "registering" and "Licensing".
A company must be licensed with a manager who meets the experience requirements of 1702. A Private Investigator must be registered through a company with the appropriate License.

Cheers

JR

[Joseph R]

To All who are wondering:

In Texas TCPS Level I and Level II tests, which qualify an individual for a non-commissioned security officer (unarmed) position, are available on-line and can be taken at anytime - save the final page, with the scores and they can be presented to your prospective employer. Level III training is required for a Commissioned Security Officer (Armed) and must be provided by a State Certified School. Level I and Level II completion are NOT required to take Level III training.. Level IV is for designation as a Personal Protection officer (Body Guard) and the training must come from a State Certified School. An applicant for Level IV must have a Level III certification to maintain a Level IV. There is not specific training requirement for a Private investigator but you must be REGISTERED

[Joseph R]

to continue ( I hit the wrong button Oooops !!!):

...you must be REGISTERED with the private Security Boarde through a LICENSED Company.

Hope this helps - Wishing ALL a Happy and Prosperous New Year

cheers

JR

[Zane Vaughan]

I have worked as a secret shopper for three different companies in the Dallas area and I have never been told I needed a license nor have I been asked if I have one

[Legal Affairs]

What I am wanting to know is, how can we find a licensed PI who is willing to take the test, fingerprints, work as our managers, even though we own the company and let us tag along on investigations, etc, and pay them less than what we are making to get our experience.

Any suggestions?

Thank You
Lori E. CopausUnion members have free help from IPIU toi arrange for a licensed PI to interview with you for your request when you are ready.

Level 4 Member Only instructions are here:
Forum for Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17)

[Legal Affairs]

Yes, I spoke to several Private Investigators in the Dallas/Bedford area and they all have said yes. It is true that you have to have a license in Texas to do mystery shopping assignments, so I have stopped doing them.

As stated above, this is false. Please privately email us at legal@ipiu.org with the names and phone numbers of those who stated this to you. Also, include the statute that they are alleging their statement to be true.

Cautionary Note: Some licensed private investigators fear competition from other newcomers. Some violate their ethics through scare tactics by telling newcomers they cannot perform such assignments without a PI License. This tactic is both absurd and outright misleading without the Texas statutes to support such a claim.

<hr>
Update:
The Texas PI Licensing Board has deleted their "opinion" on mystery shopping as a result of Senate Bill 943 being passed. SB 943 allows for mystery shopping without a PI License.

Here is the link:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/billhist/actions.d2w/report?LEG=78&SESS=R&CHAMBER=S&BILLTYPE=B&BILLSUFFIX=00943

Here is the Text:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/billhist/Smatrix.d2w/report?LEG=78&SESS=R&CHAMBER=S&BILLTYPE=B&BILLSUFFIX=00943&SORT=Asc

Here is the quote:


S.B. 943 78(R) BILL ANALYSIS

S.B. 943
By: Williams
Law Enforcement
Committee Report (Unamended)

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE

Currently, the Texas Commission on Private Security (TCOPS) licenses and regulates private investigation services and security services. The Private Security Act prohibits a person from engaging in the business activity of an investigation company unless the person holds a license issued by TCOPS. Mystery shopping is a business practice used to improve business operational and service quality through the use of anonymous resources. The broad interpretation of current statute requires that certain mystery shoppers be licensed under the Act. Senate Bill 943 exempts a person who engages in certain business evaluation services from the Private Security Act, and enumerates the prerequisites for exemption.

RULEMAKING AUTHORITY

It is the committee's opinion that this bill does not expressly grant any additional rulemaking authority to a state officer, department, agency, or institution.

ANALYSIS

Senate Bill 943 amends Subchapter N, Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, by adding Section 1702.331, which provides that this chapter does not apply to a person who poses or acts anonymously as a customer or client of a business or governmental entity or is in the business of providing the services of another for the purpose of evaluating the following operations or services of the business or government entity:

_a service or product provided to a customer or client;

_compliance with policies and operational procedures;

_the appearance, cleanliness, efficiency, and other operations of the office, facility, or physical plant;

_the friendliness, courtesy, or appearance of an employee;

_the necessity or effectiveness of a training program or employee reward or other incentive program;

_the quality, availability, or price of goods or services; and

_other operations or customer services of the business or governmental entity the evaluation of which is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter.

The person is entitled to the exemption only if the person uses an evaluation tool prescribed or approved by the employer, does not attempt to determine if an employee has committed a crime, and the information obtained is not intended to be used by the employer as the sole basis for the discipline or termination of an employee.

EFFECTIVE DATE

Upon passage, or, if the Act does not receive the necessary vote, the Act takes effect September 1, 2003.

Further, EVEN THOUGH THE BILL PASSED, when the Senate permitted witnesses to voice their support or opposition to the bill, the following people were noted:


May 19, 2003 - 2:30P or upon final adjourn./recess

FOR THE BILL:

Furrie, Mary (Self)
Green, Mike (Speedmark and Mystery Shopping Providers Association)
Henry, Eugene W. "Reb" (Self and MSPA)
hooser, Greg (Mystery Shopping Providers Association)

AGAINST THE BILL:
Burt, Bob (Self and Associated Security Services and Investigators of the State of Texas)
Chisum, John (Self and Texas Assn. Licensed Investigators)
Coffey, Michael (Self)
Hulsey, Paul D. (Self and Texas Association of Licensed Investigators)
Russell, David (Self)

[Legal Affairs]

Based on the full reading of the Texas Statutes, the board has no authority over a broadcast company, such as HBO, Showtime, etc, who assigns their attorney to employ auditors to monitor their broadcasts to insure federal copyright protection.

Therefore, licensed broadcast companies and their licensed attorneys are free to employ anyone as an auditor, regardless of whether or not the auditor is an examiner, para-legal, private investigator, law enforcement officer, or any other legal adult that is qualified to perform the audit.

[Teresa Eckert-]

I'am so glad I found this thread. I was wondering about license in Texas. I'll be moving soon to there. This thread answered a lot of my questions. Thanks to all.

[Kedesia Watson]

I would like to get more information on job opennings for the Atlanta GA location? How do I go about getting started. I have already taken all the assestments for the following needed areas.

[Matthew Hinman]

Chris, that is up to the agency who is offering employment. In Texas, and agency can simply add you to their employment and license you as a trainee under their agency license. Or, they may choose to hire you as a 1099 contractor depending on the task they are assigning you and whether or not it is based on a tax situation. Either way, if you can obtain an assignment we suggest you ask the agency what your status will be.


Just a note about "1099" contractors.... In Texas, when you sign on with a manager to register with the PSB, you must be a legal employee of an investigations company in order for your registration to be valid, and to count toward your experience. You cannot "contract" or be a "1099 employee" for a PI company in Texas and it be legal. The PSB can refuse your application, or could nullify your experience if/when the time comes for you to apply with the PSB as a PI company.

The Texas PSB told me that the experience requirement need only be "verifiable", not necessarily full-time (currently Texas requires either a CJ degree or three years verifiable experience working for a PI company). A person could theoretically work part-time as a registered investigator under a company license and achieve the necessary experience.

Now, as for the EXCEPTIONS previously posted, use your own discretion when pursuing those avenues of employment and be sure your work does not fall outside those guidelines.

Hope this helps!

--
Matthew Hinman

[Joseph R]

To All:

What Matthew says "WAS" the board requirement for Private Investigator -

NOW --- TCPS Rule 433.00 paragraph 433.01A. states:

A registrant or commissioned security officer of a licensed company must meet the specifications defined by the Internal Revenue Service as an "employee" - or "contract laborer."

Cheers

JR

[Matthew Hinman]

To All:

What Matthew says "WAS" the board requirement for Private Investigator -

NOW --- TCPS Rule 433.00 paragraph 433.01A. states:

A registrant or commissioned security officer of a licensed company must meet the specifications defined by the Internal Revenue Service as an "employee" - or "contract laborer."

Cheers

JR


Joseph,

Thanks for the info! My only concern would be that a registered "contractor" could, theoretically, act on his own under his own company name, thereby violating the Occupations Code. I see the point, though. I am new to this field, and I was informed by the PSB that contract labor would be unacceptable. Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person at the PSB!

Thanks for the clarification of the Board rules!

--
Matthew

[Joseph R]

Matthew:

Sorting out the PSB can be a "nightmare" at times and the rules may change again tomorrow !! :D

JR

[Joseph R]

As to your concern "... would be that a registered "contractor" could, theoretically, act on his own under his own company name, thereby violating the Occupations Code".

ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL - and one could certainly do that - until they were caught !!!!

Cheers

JR

[Joseph R]

All references I can find indicate the referenced bill was NEVER enacted by the legislature. However, in October 2004, the following was published in the...


TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

TITLE 37.............PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS
PART 1...............TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAPTER 35........PRIVATE SECURITY
SUBCHAPTER P....BUSINESS EVALUATION SERVICE
RULE §35.241......Business Evaluation Service
-----------------------------------------------------------

(a) The board has determined that Chapter 1702 of the Act does not apply to a person who poses or acts anonymously as a customer or client of a business or governmental entity or is in the business of providing the services of another for the purpose of evaluating the following operations or services of the business or governmental entity:

(1) a service or product provided to a customer or client;

(2) compliance with policies and operational procedures;

(3) the appearance, cleanliness, efficiency, and other operations of the office, facility, or physical plant;

(4) the friendliness, courtesy, or appearance of an employee;

(5) the necessity or effectiveness of a training program or employee reward or other incentive program;

(6) the quality, availability, or price of goods or services; and

(7) other operations or customer services of the business or governmental entity the evaluation of which is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter.

(b) A person described by subsection (a) of this section is entitled to the exemption under the subsection only if the person:

(1) uses an evaluation tool prescribed or approved by the business or governmental entity seeking the evaluation;

(2) does not engage in the investigation or observation of an employee or agent to determine whether the employee or agent has committed a crime; and

(3) the information obtained is not intended to be used by the business or governmental entity as the sole basis for the discipline or discharge of an employee or agent.


-----------------------------------------------------------

Source Note: The provisions of this §35.241 adopted to be effective October 21, 2004, 29 TexReg 9686

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=37&pt=1&ch=35&rl=241

Cheers

JR

[Kalvin Kelly]

Any licensed Texas agency can hire you, with no waiting period except for a background check, under their agency, which gives you a license to perform investigations under the agency license.

If you have not done so, please post your introduction in the Introduction Forum so trainers can help direct you.

Thanks for this info. Kalvin Kelly

[Kalvin Kelly]

All references I can find indicate the referenced bill was NEVER enacted by the legislature. However, in October 2004, the following was published in the...


TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

TITLE 37.............PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS
PART 1...............TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAPTER 35........PRIVATE SECURITY
SUBCHAPTER P....BUSINESS EVALUATION SERVICE
RULE §35.241......Business Evaluation Service
-----------------------------------------------------------

(a) The board has determined that Chapter 1702 of the Act does not apply to a person who poses or acts anonymously as a customer or client of a business or governmental entity or is in the business of providing the services of another for the purpose of evaluating the following operations or services of the business or governmental entity:

(1) a service or product provided to a customer or client;

(2) compliance with policies and operational procedures;

(3) the appearance, cleanliness, efficiency, and other operations of the office, facility, or physical plant;

(4) the friendliness, courtesy, or appearance of an employee;

(5) the necessity or effectiveness of a training program or employee reward or other incentive program;

(6) the quality, availability, or price of goods or services; and

(7) other operations or customer services of the business or governmental entity the evaluation of which is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter.

(b) A person described by subsection (a) of this section is entitled to the exemption under the subsection only if the person:

(1) uses an evaluation tool prescribed or approved by the business or governmental entity seeking the evaluation;

(2) does not engage in the investigation or observation of an employee or agent to determine whether the employee or agent has committed a crime; and

(3) the information obtained is not intended to be used by the business or governmental entity as the sole basis for the discipline or discharge of an employee or agent.


-----------------------------------------------------------

Source Note: The provisions of this §35.241 adopted to be effective October 21, 2004, 29 TexReg 9686

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=37&pt=1&ch=35&rl=241

Cheers

JR Thanks for this information on the texas administrative code. Kalvin Kelly

[Technical Support]

Joseph,

Thanks for the info! My only concern would be that a registered "contractor" could, theoretically, act on his own under his own company name, thereby violating the Occupations Code. I see the point, though. I am new to this field, and I was informed by the PSB that contract labor would be unacceptable. Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person at the PSB!

Thanks for the clarification of the Board rules!

--
Matthew
NEVER trust the clerk you speak to on the phone. In fact, 2-3 years ago the director posted his own "positional page" claiming that mystery shopping was unlawful and that he would arrest everyone in Texas. That chap is no longer in Texas! Always rely on the statutes!

[Mike Johnson]

I received my Private Investigator's License yesterday it was very easy to get it just took a while .

[Mike Johnson]

I am working with a Bailbonds company and I was told you can work for as many bailbonds companies as you want you have to give the one that carries your License a % of what you make. Bail enforcement is definately a different animal, but it is fun so for. I hope this helps you who are interested in getting into this field.

[Kalvin Kelly]

Mike could you provide me some information on receiving my personal license. Thanks Kalvin Kelly

[Mike Johnson]

Mike could you provide me some information on receiving my personal license. Thanks Kalvin Kelly
Sure Kalvin what you want to know?

[Kalvin Kelly]

Sure Kalvin what you want to know?
Mike could you give the name and phone number were you receive you pi license. Thanks Kalvin Kelly

[Mike Johnson]

Well first you have to find a licensed P.I. to let you work under his license. Then go to Texas Department of Public Safety look under license it will tell you what to do. If you don,t have any luck finding a licensed P.I. try your local bailbonds companies they are always looking for a goood P.I. and they will help you out. I hope this helps. Good Luck!

[Kalvin Kelly]

hanks you so much Mike for your information. Kalvin Kelly

[Donna Reagan]

I received my Private Investigator's License yesterday it was very easy to get it just took a while .
Mike, please email legal.affairs@ipiu.org your new PI license number for a User Title Upgrade.

Donna

[Kalvin Kelly]

Great information on obtainingTexas license. Kalvin Kelly

[Makan Nabavialamdari]

Mike Johnson
What happens if we do not want to get that lisence?
are there any problems?

[LeBrent Gray]

Hi Mike,
Please tell me how a bailbond company can help me obtain the 3 years experience that is required to take the exam and obtain a license in TX. What will I tell the bonding co? I am a member of ipiu? All information and assistance is appreciated.

[Joseph R]

Makan:

Texas Law requires you be a registered PI

JR

[Joseph R]

LeBrent:

To perform "bounty" work in Texas YOU MUST be a registerd PI

JR

[Joseph R]

Kalvin:

Go to http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/ all regulations and procedures are on the Texas Private Security Bureau Website

JR

[LeBrent Gray]

Thanks JR for the response and the other information that you share with all of us on the forum. I don't want to be a bounty hunter, but if it will help me to get the experience that I need to qualify to take the exam to become a license PI I will do it. I have one more step to complete with ipiu, so if you are looking keep me in mind

[Joseph R]

LeBrent:

Please rmember, even though you complete the IPIU training you still must obtain Texas Private Investigator License. You mustbe registered thorugh a Texas Agency and you must complete the Level I training (Free on-line)

Good Luck

JR

[Makan Nabavialamdari]

what website should i go to?

[Joseph R]

Makan:

Go to http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/ all regulations and procedures for Private Security are on this website.

Cheers

JR

[George Barnett--]

Does anyone know any examples of approved investigative experience. I have worked in law enforcement for 15 years and was told by the ladies on the phone that that may not qualify me for an agency license. Any info would be appreciated.

[Joseph R]

George:
Check my wesite and give me a call :-)
JR

[John Chitwood -]

Hi, my name is John Chitwood. I held a Private Investigator's license from 1998-2000 and would like to know about procedures to begin my own company. I am mainly interested in the Bail Bond industry working as a Bail Enforcement Officer. I have heard of the rule concerning Commissioned Security Officers, i have held Level III status since 1996.. Am i elegible to start my own company?

[Joseph R]

John:

Bail enforcement in Texas requires you be a Private Investigator.

Your best bet for information is the Private security Bureau Website - http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/

Cheers

JR

[Venise Reed]

Wow, this is some great information to keep on hand.

[James Monk]

I've just completed taking the exams for level 1 and, level 2 on the Texas Department of Public Safety web site. Now if I can just find someone that will take me on as a trainee under their firm maybe I can get a little further down this road to aquiring my own license. Anyone have any suggestions. I'm in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area.

[Cheryl Mason -]

Congratulations James!
I'm not too far from you, so howdy neighbor! :D
I can't wait to get my license, but like you I would love for an agency to train me!
I'm in a secluded area and I think there is just one PI in a town 30 miles from me, can you say boonies? lol!
Keep us posted and I'm looking forward to chatting with you about your adventures! :)

[James Monk]

Thanks for the compliment Cheryl. Unfortunately, finding an agency here in the DFW area that is willing to train is proven to be impossible to find. They either don't want to take the time or they won't return the phone calls. Here's hoping you have better luck and, if anyone knows of anyone in the DFW area that might be willing to take on a trainee please let me know.. I need some sort of work as i have been medically disqualified from doing my past job now for over a year.

[Darla Meng]

I have also worked as a Mystery Shopper in Texas. I did a thorough search on the net before I started and had found a page on one of the government website that specificly stated at that time that Mystery Shoppers did not need a license. I have since lost that link. But it beginning of 2005, so it might have changed or got moved.

[Rowdy Ratts -]

I have been considering moving to Texas in the next year or so. Sounds like Texas is a bit less restrictive than Kansas... Good news. :)

Rowdy Ratts

[Tiffany H. Causey -]

I agree. It is extremely difficult to find an agency in the DFW area who is even willing to speak to you. I have been looking as well. If I do have any luck or get any referrals I will let everyone know.

[James Monk]

Tiffany thanks for letting me know that you haven't had any luck in the DFW area either. That at least lets me know that I'm not the only one that is searching but being ignored as well.

[Tiffany H. Causey -]

Hi James,

I know how frustrating it is. I figure we are all here to help each other out.

[Michael Horner -]

This month I became a licensed P.I. here in Dallas,TX. For the past 2 years I've attempted to get hired by a local P.I. agency, without luck. I finally decided to go for it and attempt to get my own license. If you have previous experience with a security company, such as being a security officer, you probably can get licensed. I used my experience as a security officer to get my P.I. license. With some security officer positions you do have to conduct investigations. If you write a report as a security officer, then you've conducted an investigation. I worked hotel security, for a university security and contract security, and those qualified as verifiable work experience. I wasn't even working in security or investigations when I applied and was accepted to get my license. My advice is don't get discouraged.

[Tiffany H. Causey -]

Congratulations, Michael!

[Christian Cross]

Is it true that a law firm, not a PI agency, but a law firm can get you licensed as a PI? If so, would you need experience or just a background check? Any help would great.

[James Bone]

I have a brother-in-law that has almost 5 yrs experience, but is not licensed in Texas. I hope i am understanding this correctly since the state's website does not clarify this. If he goes to Austin, takes the managers test and passes, he will then be able to get a license? He is willing to be my manager so I can open my own agency.

[Lori Copaus]

Hi James

Even though he has 5 years exp. he has to be licensed himself is what I understand from the state.

Lori E. Copaus
P. I. Trainee

[Eric Simmons]

there is fort worth based company that is licensed pi agency and i happen to know that the insurance co that insures them does not cover bail bond recovery,bounty hunter,bail bond inforcement officer,or what ever you call it but because he wanted cut down on his monthy payment he chose not to cover it but he say that he can recover where or not he insured to do so or not is that legal

[Robert Donovan]

there is fort worth based company that is licensed pi agency and i happen to know that the insurance co that insures them does not cover bail bond recovery,bounty hunter,bail bond inforcement officer,or what ever you call it but because he wanted cut down on his monthy payment he chose not to cover it but he say that he can recover where or not he insured to do so or not is that legal
I am not sure what you wrote, Eric. You may wish to carefully retype your multiple sentences, use the free spell check, and do a Preview before submitting your post.

But I will try a guess here:


he chose not to cover it but he say that he can recover where or not he insured to do so or not is that legalPI Agencies that have PI only insurance can still locate and report as a PI. They can also make a citizens arrest as a PI. But the majority of their cases should not be bounty or bail enforcement. It is the same as an occasional case that is covered. Adding an insurance rider to cover bounty and bail enforcement is a good idea if substantial work in that area is anticipated.

Is it legal? The question should be if it is coverable under his PI insurance. It appears he has already asked his insurance agent the question or has reviewed his insurance contract.

It may be the same as owning a car and telling the insurance company you have no drivers under the age of 21 that will be driving the car. But that does not mean you can never have a minor drive the car as an occasional driver that does not reside with you. If an occasional driver visits you and uses your car, then he/she is covered because it is considered occasional.

[Robert Donovan]

I have a brother-in-law that has almost 5 yrs experience, but is not licensed in Texas. I hope i am understanding this correctly since the state's website does not clarify this. If he goes to Austin, takes the managers test and passes, he will then be able to get a license? He is willing to be my manager so I can open my own agency.
James, Level 4 union members have access to the Level 4 forum for obtaining your agency license or manager. This topic is for general statute questions only.

[Robert Donovan]

Is it true that a law firm, not a PI agency, but a law firm can get you licensed as a PI? If so, would you need experience or just a background check? Any help would great.
Christian, a law firm can employ you as a private investigator under their law firm license. A PI License is different.

[Gabe Rubio]

I have a question...I made a call up to the Texas Board about the IPIU. I was told not to sign up because they do not recognize the IPIU. They advised you are not a licensed agency so are not able to license others. It seems you are basically handing out a membership?

Don't get me wrong, I am basically looking at what I am getting into before signing up. I think it is great if we can have a Union for PI's so long you are truly licensing people.

[Donna Reagan]

I have a question...I made a call up to the Texas Board about the IPIU. I was told not to sign up because they do not recognize the IPIU.

Answer: We need the full name of the person you spoke to at the board, whether it was just a receptionist or someone else. Remember, the PI Board is required by law to follow the Texas statutes and not make personal interpretations of what they think it should be. As a private investigator, your first responsibility is to only work with the facts, including writing down "who" you spoke to.


I was told not to sign up because they do not recognize the IPIU.

Answer: "whoever" gave you that "personal advice" was both right and wrong. That is why you need to know the first and last name of who you spoke to. If they refuse to give you a last name, you can request a manager or director of the office who is required to give their first and last name. The higher up the chain of command you go will result in someone who will give you their first and last name. If they still refuse, ask for the telephone number of the Governor's Office, who appointed the director of the PI Board. Sound stupid? Yes, of course. Why? Because just a few years ago the Texas director of the PI Board was kicked out because he authored a very stupid policy about mystery shopping, which was against the Texas Law. And the governor removed the policy and replace the director.

As for what the "person" told you, no state official can tell a citizen NOT to join a trade association of private investigators. They can get FIRED for that.

On the other hand, the "person" is correct in that their office does not "recognize IPIU or ANY OTHER association of private investigators".. Why would they? They issue "state licenses" and IPIU only issues "union licenses".

Still, they HAVE to recognize the third-party experience records that are submitted for a PI License by whoever is the 3rd Party, including the IPIU records that are kept for work experience.


They advised you are not a licensed agency so are not able to license others.
Answer: Who told you that IPIU was a PI Agency? IPIU is the International Private Investigators Union, which is a professional non-labor trade association of private investigators, agencies, law firms, and other professionals. Whatever profession you choose to be, make sure you chose your profession's trade associations for benefits. Lawyers have their trade associations for attorneys, carpenters join their carpenter's association or union, accountants join the CPA association, etc.


It seems you are basically handing out a membership?
Answer" We never "hand out a union membership". You have to apply if you are interested in becoming a fraternal union member of thousands of other private investigators and agency members. We have a stricter Oath & Code of Ethics than any other association. Even the State of Texas does not have a stricter Oath & Code of Ethics. Our Board of Ethics determines if an applicant is approved for union membership or note. If a union member cancels their membership or if they are banned, we wish they good luck somewhere else. We look at union membership as a lifelong affiliation well beyond the first year. IPIU union membership typically pays $1000 for every $99 invested in union dues. No other union association of privater investigators does that. So protect your union membership at all costs. Reinstatement is hard sometimes if a member leaves.



Don't get me wrong, I am basically looking at what I am getting into before signing up. I think it is great if we can have a Union for PI's so long you are truly licensing people.
Answer: Licensing is the only reason for being a union member?? I think you should look at the benefits that you may be entitled to that have nothing to do with licensing.

Go here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6542

And as I wrote, in Texas and in other states - there is no state licensing for unregulated private investigative assignments. Not even the State of Texas can give you a Texas PI License that is good for unregulated assignments. Look at the Exemptions in Post#1 if this topic.

Or, go here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3558

So if you cannot get a PI License for the exemptions, then how can you get hired by the companies who need people to do the cases that are unregulated? What Photo ID can you provide them that will monitor your professional conduct while performing unregulated assignments? The answer is that those companies honor the union's license (which is not a state license).

Last, if you want to know why you should choose IPIU, call the office at 800-548-1526 and press 0 for an operator to ask for Gary.

[Gabe Rubio]

Hi Donna:

Please clarify on this. You stated:

"Still, they HAVE to recognize the third-party experience records that are submitted for a PI License by whoever is the 3rd Party, including the IPIU records that are kept for work experience."

Please call the State Board and ask them if the IPIU on the job training is good enough for a person to get a state license. I tried and they said they do not know who the IPIU is so how is your statement true?

I see the great benefits in the IPIU but I also see where people are being misleading to those that are seeking guidance.

[Donna Reagan]

Hi Donna:

Please clarify on this. You stated:

"Still, they HAVE to recognize the third-party experience records that are submitted for a PI License by whoever is the 3rd Party, including the IPIU records that are kept for work experience."

Please call the State Board and ask them if the IPIU on the job training is good enough for a person to get a state license. I tried and they said they do not know who the IPIU is so how is your statement true?

I see the great benefits in the IPIU but I also see where people are being misleading to those that are seeking guidance.
Guerrero, I did not claim that IPIU offers the job training where you would work for IPIU for the necessary experience. IPIU is an "association" of agencies and PI's. The agencies and the PI's and other companies that are members of IPIU offer the work and can certify your assignments. It is the combination of all the agencies that comnprise of the necessary experience rating to get a PI License. Level 4 union members get free help for acquiring their state agenct license or other license in the Level 4 are of this site.

Is that helpful?

[Glen Kerner -]

I am confused with the Texas laws. Here is what I want and someone please tell me what I need to do and where to go and do it.

I want an "individual Private Investigator's License". This way I can work for 1 or more agencies or pick up cases on my own.

I'm new at all this and would rather have the licensing in my name and not through any Agency. This way I'm in control of my license and not dependent on someone or some company.

TIA

[Michael Horner -]

I just got my license in Texas back in August, and the process is slightly confusing. The biggest advice i can give you is to constantly stay in contact with the private security board either by phone or by email. Meaning, if you have a question, no matter how silly you think it might be, ask them about it.

This is what I was told. They told me that in Texas you can't get an "individual license", you have to apply as a company. So you can apply as "Bob's Investigations", and get a license. "Bob's Investigations"
can be just you by yourself. They require that you go to Austin and take a test over the private security rules. You must also show proof that your "company" has P.I. insurance, although I waited to get that until I knew I passed the test.

Before all of that, you must show proof of experience that adds up to 3 years. I was able to use my experience as a security officer for 10 years, as my proof of 3 years of investigations experience. I had to go to security companies that I worked for in the past to get them to sign a form.

What I ended up doing is going to work for an established investigative company for two reasons. One, I wanted to know for sure that I was going to get paid. Secondly, I intend to use the experience to learn as much as possible, and then in a year or 2 go out and try it on my own. In the meantime I'll keep my "company license" active while I work for someone else. If for some reason I decide I don't like working for this company, I can walk away.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[Michael Horner -]

One other thing. Don't try to understand the Texas licensing laws. They were written by lawyers and not meant for us regular folks to understand. Also, if you don't already know this, check out the Texas Private Security Bureau website. It can be confusing, but it's a place to start. Plus all the forms you need to fill out can be downloaded from the website.

[Glen Kerner -]

Thanks Michael,

I will check out the board. I will be working on my cover letter and modifying my resume this weekend. I've got over 26 years in the IT field, many of that as a Systems Admin and Security Officer. Not sure if that will qualify for the 3 years or not. I will ask them.

Basically, Texas doesn't want independent Private Investigators it seems. They can control a company better than an individual (plus the company usually has to pay corporate taxes).

Again, thanks for the information.

Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year:)

[Michael Horner -]

Glen, if you can show that any of that work experience involved doing investigations, then you should be okay.

You won't have to worry about being taxed. My understanding is that as a sole propriorter, unless you make a substancial amount of money, then you won't be subject to corporate taxes. Also, I think it only applies if you decided to incorporate. You will have to file a DBA with the county you live in and they will explain all that stuff to you.

Good luck and Merry X-mas!

[Robert Cody]

Happy New Year's, all. My question is I want to someday open a private investigation business but currently do not have the 3 years expereince because most firms in the DFW area are looking for people with experience. I am currently working on my bachelor's degree in criminal justice are will be finished a year from now. What are my chances for opening a P.I. business? All answers welcomed. Thank you. Hope I posted this in the right spot.

[Michael Horner -]

Robert, I'm sure that you've checked the Texas Private Security Bureau website. If you haven't, you definitely need to do so. Also, although you sound like you really want to be a P.I, I highly suggest you work for someone else first or even see if someone will let you "shadow" them for a couple of days. I know it's hard to get hired and most firms won't be interested in you until you can actually come work for them. When you're ready, I suggest you look at regional or national firms. They are more likely to hire you without experience because they will want to train you on their way of doing things. Local P.I.'s usually are a one man or just a couple of investigators that they use on a "as needed basis."

Hope this helps a little.

[James Bone]

I have a question. My brother-in-law has 5 years in investigations but he does not have a state license. He is willing to be my manager, my question is, What does he need to do to be my licensed manager?

[Michael Horner -]

He's got to start an investigations company. This means he's got to apply to the Private Security Bureau and comply with all their requirements and pay the fees. He'll have to go to Austin and take the state test. After he gets approved, then he's got to hire you and pay the fees for you as his employee.

[Pam McGee]

I am scheduled to take the managers exam in June. Today, I received a letter from a company offering their manager's test prep course. (for a fee of course)...stating that the failure rate on the manager's exam is extremely high. Has anyone taken the exam? If so, I'd love to hear your opinion. Is is terribly difficult? What would be your recommendation in regards to studying?
Thanks

[James Bone]

I was wandering about insurance companies that would cover you as a PI. You need at least the states minimum required amount of liability personal/property, e&o. Does anyone know of some insurance companies that writes PI insurance? Thanks in advance.

[Technical Support]

I was wandering about insurance companies that would cover you as a PI. You need at least the states minimum required amount of liability personal/property, e&o. Does anyone know of some insurance companies that writes PI insurance? Thanks in advance.
Go to the Insurance topic in the forum titled Experienced General Discussion.

[Technical Support]

I am scheduled to take the managers exam in June. Today, I received a letter from a company offering their manager's test prep course. (for a fee of course)...stating that the failure rate on the manager's exam is extremely high. Has anyone taken the exam? If so, I'd love to hear your opinion. Is is terribly difficult? What would be your recommendation in regards to studying?
Thanks
Most state exams are heavily based on the Private Detectives Act & Statutes. Know them!

[Zachariah Washburn]

Hello All,
I am new to this forum, and I am glad to be here. Myself and 2 friends are wanting to get into the Private Investigations/Security/Bail Enforcement field. I have reviewed the Texas requirements and was wanting to know if our experience will qualify for what is needed. We all work for a finance company in the skip tracing dept. I have over 6100 hours invested, friend number 1 had about the same, and friend number 2 has about 4000 hours but was a Federal Security Officer for 3 years from July 2000 - August 2003. Will this meet the requirements to get the ball rolling?

[James Bone]

To get your PI license in Texas now, you have to take your 18 hrs continuing ed before you can get your PI license. When I recieved my PI license you had to take your 18 hrs continuing ed during the first 24 months. Things change and we keep on keeping on.

[William Brassfield]

Hello All,
I am new to this forum, and I am glad to be here.

Hi Zachariah;
If you haven't already done so, please post your agreement to the code of ethics. This is located in the forum member's introduction lounge.

Also, while in the lounge, you may want to author your own topic, so we can get to know you better.

[R Scott Lubniewski]

I noticed that most of the posts here are very outdated. I know Texas has changed many of their laws in the past few years. Does anyone have the latest interpretations of the current laws relating to private investigators?

I have purchased my membership package, but would like to learn what my options are with regard to Texas laws.

Thanks,
Scott

[Edward Opperman -]

Links to state laws and licensing:
http://lasvegaspi.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/how-to-become-a-private-investigator/

Texas Commission on Private Security
4930 S. Congress, Suite C-305
Austin, TX 78745
P. O. Box 13509
Austin, TX 78711
(512) 463-5545
FAX: (512) 452-2307

License Check
Web Site
State Law
State P.I. Association

[R Scott Lubniewski]

Thanks for your reply Edward. I am familiar with the state website, although the page you linked to didn't bring up the page. Maybe they need to update their site.

I'm actually looking for some current INTERPRETATIONS of the Texas laws.

Thanks Scott

[Edward Opperman -]

Sorry Richard. That's actually one of my sites. I'll have to hunt down the dead link and fix it.
How about a link to the The Texas Association of Licensed Investigators?
http://www.tali.org/ That link works I swear!
Sorry I can't help with the interpretations.

[R Scott Lubniewski]

Hi Edward,
Don't feel bad web addresses change all the time. Thanks for your attentiveness!
Here is the correct link for you anyway http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/

Scott

[Donna Reagan]

I noticed that most of the posts here are very outdated. I know Texas has changed many of their laws in the past few years.
State law seldom changes. What specifically are you referring to that has changed in state law? If we can verify it, then we will update this topic.


Does anyone have the latest interpretations of the current laws relating to private investigators?
No one should be taken for granted that an "interpretation" (otherwise known as an opinion) is based on actual state law or a statute. Both an interpretation and opinion must line up with the actual statute.

One of the past Directors of the Texas Licensing board posted his interpretation (opinion) on the licensing web site that Mystery Shoppers would be cited for a felony in his state. He also included any other operatives that would be investigating under the exemptions of the statutes, yet he was insistent he was going his own way. He was fired by the governor, and his interpretation was removed.

If you call the Texas Licensing board for any reason, make sure you get the name of the person you are speaking to before you get involved in a telephone discussion of the statutes. 50% of all states have had their receptionists mislead callers when comparing their comments with the statutes.

Some state associations nationwide are not in favor of the exemptions allowed for unlicensed private investigators. This is against the IPIU Mission Statement as a whole.

Our Oath includes:


d. We firmly sustain all government licensing bodies who regulate private investigators within their lawful authority and who are charged with specific duties by statute as authored by their elected lawmakers.


e. We firmly recognized that not all government licensing bodies have authority over unregulated areas of private investigations and related professions, as dictated by the statutes authored by their elected lawmakers.


f. We promote all interested parties to pursue obtaining government licensing for our profession whenever the entire evidentiary facts of an interested party's individual circumstances dictate such a need or requirement.


g. We do not necessarily believe that all citizens require regulation by a government body in the affairs of a citizen’s chosen profession unless there is a non-partisan proven evidentiary factual need for additional consumer protection.


h. We firmly believe and sustain a fair and balanced course in all regulatory matters and discussion.


i. We firmly believe that all professional private investigators (whether licensed, unlicensed, regulated, or unregulated) need to exhibit proven investigative skills, based on academic learning, testing, and accomplished experience before performing the duties as a professional private investigator or other related profession on their own.


j. We respect and promote the integrity of all private investigators and interns involved in pursuing this profession, as well as those who are charged in their duties to regulate and enforce the specific areas of private investigators wherever their authority is relative and lawful.


Source:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914

[Edward Opperman -]

Can a private citizen even offer to "interpret a law" without risking an accusation of unlicensed practice of law?

[Donna Reagan]

Can a private citizen even offer to "interpret a law" without risking an accusation of unlicensed practice of law?
Of course a private citizen can offer an interpretation (an opinion). My earlier post offered that no interpretation should be taken for granted, unless backed up by statute. Even licensed attorneys have given the wrong advice before.

As for "practicing of law", one of the elements used by the state bar association is to have a factual form of advertising or solicitation which infers the alleged unlicensed attorney is practicing law for a fee or for some value in return.

[Edward Opperman -]

Thanks
I'm a paralegal and I'm very sensitive to the accusation.

[R Scott Lubniewski]

Hi Donna,
Here is one:

OCCUPATIONS CODE

CHAPTER 1702. PRIVATE SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

&#167; 1702.104. INVESTIGATIONS COMPANY. (a) A person acts
as an investigations company for the purposes of this chapter if the
person:
(1) engages in the business of obtaining or
furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information
related to:
(A) crime or wrongs done or threatened against a
state or the United States;
(B) the identity, habits, business, occupation,
knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations,
associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a
person;
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of
lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire,
libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;
(2) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, evidence for use before a court, board,
officer, or investigating committee;
(3) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, the electronic tracking of the location of an
individual or motor vehicle other than for criminal justice
purposes by or on behalf of a governmental entity; or
(4) engages in the business of protecting, or accepts
employment to protect, an individual from bodily harm through the
use of a personal protection officer.
(b) For purposes of Subsection (a)(1), obtaining or
furnishing information includes information obtained or furnished
through the review and analysis of, and the investigation into the
content of, computer-based data not available to the public.

Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 388, &#167; 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.

Amended by:
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 906, &#167; 4, eff. September 1,
2007.

Thanks,
Scott

[R Scott Lubniewski]

I think everyone forgot about this thread, so I figured if I added to it again maybe it would attract some attention :)

Scott

[Technical Support - USA]

I think everyone forgot about this thread, so I figured if I added to it again maybe it would attract some attention :)

Scott

Scott,

Please post the Texas State web link to the "OCCUPATIONS CODE, CHAPTER 1702. PRIVATE SECURITY, SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS" quote you posted.

[R Scott Lubniewski]

Here ya go:

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/OC/content/htm/oc.010.00.001702.00.htm#1702.104.00

Scott

[Legal Affairs]

To all, our response to the following quotes is based on Texas Laws on Page 1 of this topic: Click Here (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3558)

<hr>
A member wrote recently the following:


I got the following from a PI firm here in Houston when talking to them and mentioning I was a member of IPIU.
Dear Member:

Pursuant to your signed Oath & Code of Ethics Agreement (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914), we are instructing you to privately email us the name and contact details of the person who falsely interpreted the Texas statutes to legal.affairs@ipiu.org

Quotes from Oath (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914):

Article 3: TO NOT knowingly support, affiliate with, offer authorship, or agree with any site, group or firm, or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or opposed to those accepted by IPIU


Article 27-c: to aid IPIU in it's mission to dispel falsehoods and to promote a positive image of it's affairs and the private investigator's industry and its agents and employees.


Article 15: . . . Maintaining or being identified on any blog or any web site which depicts illegal or inappropriate behavior will be considered a violation of my Oath & Code of Ethics;


Article 27-b: to aid, promote positive credit, and to sustain the Private Investigators Forum and it's authorized sponsors, including the International Private Investigators Union (IPIU), in it's mission;

<hr>

Can someone give me the facts based on the comments below?
Yes, of course. As mentioned above, our response is based, in part, on Texas Laws on Page 1 of this topic: Click Here (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3558) . Our other responses are based on public details available to you at this web site.

<hr>

"Are you currently registered with DPS as a Pi? The reason I ask, is that IPIU is thought of as somewhat of a 0000 by many in the PI industry. " Untrue.

The International Private Investigators Union (IPIU) is celebrating its 20th Anniversary serving over 85,000 private investigators and professionals since 1989, with over 40,000 members currently registered here at this site. IPIU's membership, therefore, represents the PI Industry within its own ranks, all of which have agreed to a personal Oath & Code of Ethics that is unmatched with any other industry group.


No other association or industry group is as large as IPIU, although some splinter groups have individual members who were banned from IPIU because of their violation of their Oath & Code of Ethics. All other incorporated groups or associations, to our knowledge, have their own Code of Ethics which forbids any of their members to disparage IPIU or any other entity by promoting falsehoods based on personal bias or personal opinion not based on factual evidence.

<hr>

"I believe they are in Canada."
Untrue for USA Members. See the public Contact (http://www.ipiu.org/contact.php) page.

<hr>

"They sell you the course/membership and then try to set you up with mystery shopper or piracy contracts."
Yes, that is true - except it is only a fraction of what the IPIU benefits include.

However, if the author is portraying that mystery shopping and piracy cases are the only items available through the IPIU Job Bank (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33), then the author's statement is completely untrue. Our Job Bank (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33) benefits include daily private investigative assignments that are not mystery shopping and not piracy. It is obvious the author is not basing their allegations on factual evidence.

<hr>

"The catch is, if you are not taking the assignment from a licensed Texas PI firm, you are committing a crime in Texas."
Untrue.
The Texas statutes clearly allow for private investigative assignments that do not require a state PI License. They are known as unregulated private investigators versus regulated private investigators that require a license.

There are some irresponsible licensed private investigators who falsely believe that "all private investigators" in Texas are required to be a licensed PI - which is completely untrue and not endorsed by the lawmakers.

<hr>


"Multiple offenses carry a stiff fine and multiple charges."
That is true - if someone is advertising themselves as a "Texas" private investigator in regulated areas of the statutes. However, there are no laws against anyone advertising within the statutes as state in the law. Further, there are no laws in Texas prohibiting out-of-state private investigators from advertising on the internet.

<hr>


"In order to work as a PI in TX the assignment must go through a Licensed Insured Tx PI company."
Not for unregulated assignments. And if it is a regulated task, such as surveillance, then the task can be performed by an independent license PI instead of a licensed "company".

<hr>

"I’ve heard they do not tell their “members” that."
Untrue:
Every guest and every member is given Newcomer Instructions that includes Licensing Laws for Private Investigators.

Again, the author stated "I've heard . . ." which is hearsay and based on rumor and not facts.

<hr>

"This will affect you quite negatively when you apply for your own company license . . ." Untrue.
Any fear claim not based on the full extent of the Texas statutes is designed to discourage you rather than encourage you.

<hr>

"and you try to prove 3 years experience by working these jobs for the past 3 years."
Untrue.
The Texas Licensing Board will make its own determination of whether or not your 3 years experience in working unregulated private investigative assignments meets their requirement for an independent license. We have many unregulated private investigators who have worked 15 years in undercover investigations for attorneys, insurance companies, and other firms that are not regulated by the Texas Private Investigators Board. If they wished to apply their experience toward an independent PI License, they would surely be qualified and encourage. (Again, the author shows evidence they have not read the statutes)

<hr>


"You will basically be admitting to committing a crime for the past 3 years." Untrue.
Again, the author is fabricating a scenario that is not based on the full extent of Texas law and the Texas PI Statutes.

<hr>

"There are also a ton of licensed PI’s that will turn you into DPS in a nanosecond if they find out."
True.
And the author is may be one of them. What we have found in the last 20 years is that rarely do these self-policing PI complaints go anywhere. Most of them are dismissed by the Texas PI Licensing department because the self-policing licensed PI complainant did not carefully read the statutes which allows for unregulated private investigators.

Second, there are several licensed PI's who are not earning any money because they are consumed with turning in false reports on other private investigators. We have seen 10-15 of these types on some of the internet groups who purport to be licensed, experienced, and a know-it-all. The most revealing trait of these types are they are always on the internet - 24 hours a day - which means they are not working real cases. If you are going to take someone's word for something, choose a working private investigator and not an arm-chair critic whose only mission in life is to discourage you and others.

<hr>

"We have to pay tons of money each year for licensing, continuing education, and liability insurance." Untrue.
The start-up cost to become a license private investigator is a few hundred dollars. Insurance is a monthly or quarterly premium similar to getting car insurance. Continuing education is a fact of life and is within the realm of reasonable. What is glaringly missing in the author's statement are the facts, namely exactly what is a "ton" of money. To some, a "ton" of money may be $100.

<hr>

"Unlicensed PIs are a major concern to DPS."
Yes and no.
The Department of Public Safety (DPS) should be concerned about their job, as dictated by the elected Texas lawmakers who govern and pass the statutes. If the DPS is doing their job, they should have no additional concerns.

But again, the DPS does not have any concern over legitimate unregulated private investigators who are law abiding citizens.

And, the DPS mission does not include "everyone should be licensed as a private investigator." If that were true, then the elected Texas lawmakers (state senators and state house members) would not have limited the powers of the DPS by allowing for unregulated private investigators.

[Antonios Simoglou]

Excellent info posted! I will be applying for my license/company shortly.

[John Caillouette]

We'll tell me what to do, does it help if you have a concealed carry license ???

[Donna Reagan]

We'll tell me what to do, does it help if you have a concealed carry license ???
John, click on the following message link:

http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?38854-John-Caillouette&p=529440#post529440