PI LICENSING: Illinois [Archive] - Private Investigator Forums

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Judy Snyder

03-23-2001, 06:24 PM

The following are the Illinois Exemptions to being licensed:

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED:
(If you fall into the following exempted categories)

Sec. 30. Exemptions to licensing:
(a) The Private Investigators Licensing Act does not apply to:

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides any service that this Act does not prohibit as regulated in this State under any other Act from engaging in the practice for which they are licensed, provided that they do not represent themselves by any title prohibited by this Act.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person is engaged exclusively and employed by a person, firm, association, or corporation in the business of transporting property or persons in interstate commerce and making an investigation related to the business of that employer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: Any person is employed exclusively and regularly by one employer in connection with the affairs of that employer only and there exists an employer/employee relationship.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides Information for employment purposes.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides tracing and compiling lineage or ancestry.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: An attorney-at-law is licensed to practice in Illinois while engaging in the practice of law.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person is engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and furnishing information as to the financial rating or credit worthiness of persons;

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides consumer reports in connection with Credit transactions involving the consumer on whom the information is to be furnished and involving the extensions of credit to the consumer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides services under the Illinois Public Accounting Act if performed in the course of their professional practice.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides Information for the underwriting of insurance involving the consumer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: An officer or employee of the United States, this State, or any political subdivision of either while the officer or employee is engaged in the performance of his or her official duties within the course and scope of his or her employment with the United States, this State, or any political subdivision of either.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: Insurance adjusters legally employed or under contract as adjusters and who engage in no other investigative activities other than those directly connected with adjustment of claims against an insurance company or self-insured by which they are employed or with which they have a contract.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: Any law enforcement officer, as defined in the Illinois Police Training Act, who has successfully completed the requirements of basic law enforcement and firearms training as prescribed by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, employed by an employer in connection with the affairs of that employer, provided he or she is exclusively employed by the employer during the hours or times he or she is scheduled to work for that employer, and there exists an employer and employee relationship.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who sells burglar alarm systems and does not install, monitor, maintain, alter, repair, service, or respond to burglar alarm systems at protected premises or premises to be protected, provided:

(i) The burglar alarm systems are approved either by Underwriters Laboratories or another authoritative source recognized by the Department and are identified by a federally registered trademark.

(ii) The owner of the trademark has expressly authorized the person to sell the trademark owner's products, and the person provides proof of this authorization upon the request of the Department.

(iii) The owner of the trademark maintains, and provides upon the Department's request, a certificate evidencing insurance for bodily injury or property damage arising from faulty or defective products in an amount not less than $1,000,000 combined single limit; provided that the policy of insurance need not relate exclusively to burglar alarm systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who sells, installs, maintains, or repairs automobile alarm systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides professional engineering as defined in the Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(L) The practice of structural engineering as defined in the Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(M) The practice of architecture as defined in the Illinois Architecture Practice Act of 1989.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding automotive locks by automotive service dealers, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides opening a lock in an emergency situation, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides duplicating keys, from installing, servicing, repairing, rebuilding, reprogramming, or maintaining electronic garage door devices or from selling locks or similar security accessories not prohibited from sale by the State of Illinois, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides the installation or removal of complete locks or locking devices by members of the building trades when doing so in the course of residential or commercial new construction or remodeling, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides towing services, repossessors, or auto clubs from opening automotive locks in the normal course of their duties, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths. Additionally, this Act shall not prohibit employees of towing services from opening motor vehicle locks to enable a vehicle to be moved without towing, provided that the towing service does not hold itself out to the public, by yellow page advertisement, through a sign at the facilities of the towing service, or by any other advertisement, as a locksmith.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides the practice of locksmithing by students in the course of study in programs approved by the Department, provided that the students do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

(G) Servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding locks by a lock manufacturer or anyone employed by a lock manufacturer, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

(H) The provision of any of the products or services in the practice of locksmithing as identified in Section 5 of this Act by a business licensed by the State of Illinois as a private alarm contractor or private alarm contractor agency, as long as the principal purpose of the services provided to a customer is not the practice of locksmithing and the business does not hold itself out to the public as a locksmith agency.

(I) Any maintenance employee of a property management company at a multi-family residential building from servicing, installing, repairing, or opening locks for tenants as long as the maintenance employee does not hold himself or herself out to the public as a locksmith.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED FOR: A person who provides fire protection engineering, including the design, testing, and inspection of fire protection systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person provides services under the Illinois Public Accounting Act if performed in the course of their professional practice.

(Source: P.A. 89-366, eff. 1-1-96; 90-436, eff. 1-1-98; 90-633, eff. 7-24-98; 91-91, eff. 1-1-00.)

OTHER LINKS:

Look up a PI License:

https://www.idfpr.com/DPR/licenselookup/default.asp

http://www.idfpr.com

PI Licensing Law for Illinois (http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2474&ChapAct=225%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B447%2F&ChapterID=24&ChapterName=PROFESSIONS+AND+OCCUPATIONS&ActName=Private+Detective%2C+Private+Alarm%2C+Private+Security%2C+and+Locks mith+Act+of+2004%2E)

PS: See the Educational Forum too. There's a book there that has all the states regs.

<hr>
Copy of non-interpretative exemptions:

2004:

Sec. 15‑5. Exemptions; private detective.

The provisions of this Act relating to the licensure of private detectives do not apply to any of the following:

(1) An employee of the United States, Illinois, or a political subdivision of either while the employee is engaged in the performance of his or her official duties within the scope of his or her employment. However, any such person who offers his or her services as a private detective or uses a similar title when these services are performed for compensation or other consideration, whether received directly or indirectly, is subject to this Act.

(2) A person, firm, or other entity engaged exclusively in tracing and compiling lineage or ancestry who does not hold himself or herself out to be a private detective.

(3) A person engaged exclusively in obtaining and furnishing information as to the financial rating or creditworthiness of persons or a person who provides reports in connection with (i) consumer credit transactions, (ii) information for employment purposes, or (iii) information for the underwriting of consumer insurance.

(4) Insurance adjusters employed or under contract as adjusters who engage in no other investigative activities other than those directly connected with adjustment of claims against an insurance company or a self‑insured entity by which they are employed or with which they have a contract. No insurance adjuster or company may use the term "investigation" or any derivative thereof, in its name or in its advertising.

----------
Sec. 10‑10. General exemptions.

This Act does not apply to any of the following:

(1) A person, firm, or corporation engaging in fire protection engineering, including the design, testing, and inspection of fire protection systems.

(2) The practice of professional engineering as defined in the Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(3) The practice of structural engineering as defined in the Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(4) The practice of architecture as defined in the Illinois Architecture Practice Act of 1989.

(5) The activities of persons or firms licensed under the Illinois Public Accounting Act if performed in the course of their professional practice.

(6) An attorney licensed to practice in Illinois while engaging in the practice of law.

(7) A person engaged exclusively and employed by a person, firm, association, or corporation in the business of transporting persons or property in interstate commerce and making an investigation related to the business of that employer.

(8) A person who provides canine odor detection services to a unit of federal, State, or local government on an emergency call‑out or volunteer and not‑for‑hire basis.

<hr>
2001:

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person is engaged exclusively and employed by a person, firm, association, or corporation in the business of transporting persons or property in interstate commerce and making an investigation related to the business of that employer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: Any person, watchman, or guard employed exclusively and regularly by one employer in connection with the affairs of that employer only and there exists an employer/employee relationship.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and furnishing information as to the financial rating or credit worthiness of persons;

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides consumer reports in connection with Credit transactions involving the consumer on whom the information is to be furnished and involving the extensions of credit to the consumer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides Information for employment purposes.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides Information for the underwriting of insurance involving the consumer.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: An attorney-at-law licensed to practice in Illinois while engaging in the practice of law.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: An officer or employee of the United States, this State, or any political subdivision of either while the officer or employee is engaged in the performance of his or her official duties within the course and scope of his or her employment with the United States, this State, or any political subdivision of either.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: Insurance adjusters legally employed or under contract as adjusters and who engage in no other investigative activities other than those directly connected with adjustment of claims against an insurance company or self-insured by which they are employed or with which they have a contract.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: Any law enforcement officer, as defined in the Illinois Police Training Act, who has successfully completed the requirements of basic law enforcement and firearms training as prescribed by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, employed by an employer in connection with the affairs of that employer, provided he or she is exclusively employed by the employer during the hours or times he or she is scheduled to work for that employer, and there exists an employer and employee relationship.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who sells burglar alarm systems and does not install, monitor, maintain, alter, repair, service, or respond to burglar alarm systems at protected premises or premises to be protected, provided:

(i) The burglar alarm systems are approved either by Underwriters Laboratories or another authoritative source recognized by the Department and are identified by a federally registered trademark.

(ii) The owner of the trademark has expressly authorized the person to sell the trademark owner's products, and the person provides proof of this authorization upon the request of the Department.

(iii) The owner of the trademark maintains, and provides upon the Department's request, a certificate evidencing insurance for bodily injury or property damage arising from faulty or defective products in an amount not less than $1,000,000 combined single limit; provided that the policy of insurance need not relate exclusively to burglar alarm systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who sells, installs, maintains, or repairs automobile alarm systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides tracing and compiling lineage or ancestry.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding automotive locks by automotive service dealers, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides opening a lock in an emergency situation, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides duplicating keys, from installing, servicing, repairing, rebuilding, reprogramming, or maintaining electronic garage door devices or from selling locks or similar security accessories not prohibited from sale by the State of Illinois, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides the installation or removal of complete locks or locking devices by members of the building trades when doing so in the course of residential or commercial new construction or remodeling, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides towing services, repossessors, or auto clubs from opening automotive locks in the normal course of their duties, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths. Additionally, this Act shall not prohibit employees of towing services from opening motor vehicle locks to enable a vehicle to be moved without towing, provided that the towing service does not hold itself out to the public, by yellow page advertisement, through a sign at the facilities of the towing service, or by any other advertisement, as a locksmith.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides the practice of locksmithing by students in the course of study in programs approved by the Department, provided that the students do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

(G) Servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding locks by a lock manufacturer or anyone employed by a lock manufacturer, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

(H) The provision of any of the products or services in the practice of locksmithing as identified in Section 5 of this Act by a business licensed by the State of Illinois as a private alarm contractor or private alarm contractor agency, as long as the principal purpose of the services provided to a customer is not the practice of locksmithing and the business does not hold itself out to the public as a locksmith agency.

(I) Any maintenance employee of a property management company at a multi-family residential building from servicing, installing, repairing, or opening locks for tenants as long as the maintenance employee does not hold himself or herself out to the public as a locksmith.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides fire protection engineering, including the design, testing, and inspection of fire protection systems.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides professional engineering as defined in the Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(L) The practice of structural engineering as defined in the Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

(M) The practice of architecture as defined in the Illinois Architecture Practice Act of 1989.

NO PI LICENSE NEEDED IF: A person who provides any service that this Act does not prohibit as regulated in this State under any other Act from engaging in the practice for which they are licensed, provided that they do not represent themselves by any title prohibited by this Act.
(Source: P.A. 89-366, eff. 1-1-96; 90-436, eff. 1-1-98; 90-633, eff. 7-24-98; 91-91, eff. 1-1-00.)

Christine Anderson -

08-10-2001, 07:21 PM

Here is the address for Licensing in the state of Illinois.

Illinois Department of Professional Regulation
320 West Washington Street, 3rd Floor
Springfield, IL 62786

Sandra Johnson

08-12-2001, 04:22 PM

Hey thank you for the input.

Crystal Breezee

10-28-2002, 04:01 PM

It sounds to me like the Illinois laws are stating that a person needs to have some kind of experience in this field to be licensed. I am not sure if I am interpreting this the wrong way but I was hoping someone could clarify this for me. Also are they also stating that I would need at least an associates degree in a related field?

Carolyn Kemph

11-11-2002, 10:52 AM

I have gone to the URL's that everyone has listed and read just about everything there is to read about the Illinois laws on PI's but have failed to completely understand them.. I feel like you have to be a lawyer to do so..

Can anyone help me out with figuring out exactly what the law states?

What I get out of it is that I do not need a license from the state unless I am going to go into business for myself..

And that if IPIU places me I will still be working for these companies, therefore not working on my own or for my own business, etc..

I also believe that the law is telling me that you have to do PI work for 3-5 years BEFORE you can even apply for a PI license through the state..

Is this all correct?

Can anyone tell me anything else I will need to know about these laws and what else I need to do before doing any PI work besides gaining my PERC card?

It seems as though other future trainees from Illinois also have these questions.

Thank you for any help that you can provide..

Sincerely,
Carolyn Kemph

admin

11-11-2002, 11:04 AM

Carolyn, please read the the exemptions above and keep your questions to this topic regarding licensing.

Thank you for your support.

Odell Jamison

11-14-2002, 08:32 AM

I think Carolyn asked a very good question. I'm not intrested in exemptions. I want to know what I have to do to obtain a license in Illinois. I down loaded the application and regulations for licensure and it is confusing. It appears more suited for security guards and lock smiths. Do you have exact and clear details as to what members must do to obtain a license in Illinois ?:(

Stephen Emmett

11-25-2002, 04:55 PM

Odell if you go to www.dpr.state.Il.us and then click on Private Investigator requirements a big 29 page Adobe PF is available.
But to cut to the chase. You have to have either three years of experience , which are several ways to obtain the experience,to set for the exam, or bachelors degree criminal justice and 1 year of experience or Associates degree and 2 years of investigation experience within a Five year period of taking the state exam. Write me if I can be of more help. I am a forner Illinois Police Officer and was a Licensced P.I. In Georgia, and am now interested in opening an office in the Chicago area. If I can help Please advise. Stephen

Stephen Emmett

11-25-2002, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Crystal Breezee
It sounds to me like the Illinois laws are stating that a person needs to have some kind of experience in this field to be licensed. I am not sure if I am interpreting this the wrong way but I was hoping someone could clarify this for me. Also are they also stating that I would need at least an associates degree in a related field?
Crystal Please see reply I posted on Nov.23 2002, if I can help just e-mail. Good Luck

Joe McCool -

12-19-2002, 10:48 AM

Hi stephen! Thanks for your information regarding licensing in Illinois. I just moved here from washington and I have a lot of questions, would love to talk with you more about P I work in general, Hope to talk with you soon.

Henry Anderson

04-18-2003, 12:17 AM

A company from"CALF. LA" call me up after posting a resume on monster.com asking to use my license to start up in chicago

I said yes when I was ask did I have a license I do but not for starting up a business.

But There's two type of licensing be stated.

admin

04-28-2003, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Odell Jamison
I'm not intrested in exemptions.
That's too bad.

There were no licensing laws when private investigators were doing their jobs for over 100 years. Then along came some people who thought they should lock down the PI business and regulate private investigators through licensing. And there is some good in licensing, but the lawmakers control the licensing boards so they don't get too carried away.

That is why there are un-regulated areas of privae investigators. We have members that have been doing investigations for over 20 years with no license by working for criminal and civil law firms. They don't need license.

While some IPIU union members are waiting and waiting and waiting, other members are raking in lots of paid assignments and building their experience rating for their own license down the road. Or better, getting an offer from a law firm to hire on.

Originally posted by Odell Jamison
I want to know what I have to do to obtain a license in Illinois.
For IPIU union members, we have a private forum titled OBTAINING YOUR LICENSE.

In that forum IPIU also provides free assistant in obtaining your own Illionois Agency license with no experience on your part. There are additional forms to complete, but by owning your agency you obtain a faster approach to experience, earnings, and assignments.

In the meantime, please click on the following Newcomer's Topic and do the instructions listed to get the most benefits from your membership:

Click here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5008

Mary Fontaine--*

06-23-2003, 09:34 AM

I was recently talking to a PI about getting into this business. He said that according to Illinois law, I must have my PERC before I can do any kind of work including mystery shopping. I have applied for the card and I have been doing the integrety investigations. I thought that as long as I was working for a company that I would be ok. Now I'm not so sure. I don't want to do anything against the law.
Mary Anne Fontaine

I hope I posted this to the right forum.

Carolyn Kemph

06-24-2003, 02:19 PM

The person you spoke with is correct. Within Illinois to do any type of PI work you must have your PERC card. It does not take that long to receive so I would hold out for a bit longer before taking any assignments asside from the mystery shopper type. I do not believe that you need your PERC card for the integrity assignments, with these you whould be ok. Anything other, hold off and wait for your card.

Linda Manning

06-24-2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Mary Fontaine
I was recently talking to a PI about getting into this business. He said that according to Illinois law, I must have my PERC before I can do any kind of work including mystery shopping.
I doubt you need the perc card for mystery shopping (which is also known as Integrity Investigation types of work).

To the state, they want to hear "Mystery Shopping" to avoid a perc card.

The PI you spoke to may not have had a copy of the statutes as posted above in this topic. Always back an opinion up with facts, and in this case - state law. Opinions by the PI Licensing bureau must be based on an exact statute that the lawmakers authored, and not what someone thinks it is.

Go to their website and study the PI Act and all of the statutes. If no word is mentioned about mystery shopping, then you may not be required to spend the money, take the test, and wait.

Another excellent source would be to call the mystery shopping companies in your state, especially the ones that have been in business for years. They could quote you chapter and verse.

Mary Fontaine--*

06-24-2003, 08:40 PM

Thanks for the info. I applied for my PERC card about 2 weeks ago. I hope it doesn't take too long. I can't imagine that there would be a problem since I have already been fingerprinted and had the background check done with IPIU. The PI I talked to was very helpful. He told me that it wasn't that hard to get into this type of work and he highly recommended getting the card which I was planning on doing anyway. That way I can work in
security or loss prevention if necessary.
Thanks again.
Mary Anne Fontaine

Peter Eleuteri

09-02-2003, 02:09 PM

What is a PERC card?

I think I missed something in this topic.

Thanks Pete

Louis Greiner

10-11-2003, 03:29 PM

Will I need to get a PERC card if I'm doing assignments through IPIU? Maybe I'm not understanding this clearly. Is IPIU similiar to an employment/temp agency? In other words, we receive assignments to work with more local firms/agencies, but yet are a part of IPIU? In this case, if the agency/firm is in my state (IL) will I need the PERC card? (Sorry if I just got of the topic.)

I will be contacting the state Monday, now that I have my manual, etc., but was wondering what other PI trainees have found?

Cheryl

11-19-2003, 05:55 AM

I asked this question in the trainee forum and was referred here. What is a PERC card? Is that something I need in Illinois above and beyond the credentials I'll receive through IPIU? And I'm assuming if I get it through the state, it's something I should be working on getting now if I want it in a month or two, is that right?
Thank you in advance for helping.
Cheryl

Larry Lewis -

11-19-2003, 07:44 AM

If you wish to apply for an Illinois PERC, try the following website:
http://www.dpr.state.il.us/apply/forms/perc.pdf

This document is called a Permanent Employee Registration Card , or PERC. As you look at the application, you will see that there are places for employers to fill in data.

The actual purpose of this card is buried somewhere in the various Illinois statutes. Good luck finding it.:p

My own feeling is that, when you find employment, you will be advised if you need the PERC. Whether that employment comes from IPIU or another source.

I don't think I would invest the additional dollars (and time) until I know that I need the form.:rolleyes:

If any one has more details on the use of the PERC in Illinois, let us know!!

Cheryl

11-19-2003, 07:55 AM

Larry,
Thanks for the reply, and after doing a little more searching I think you're right. Apparently you can work while your PERC application is pending.
The only thing that sounds any different about getting the PERC card and the application with IPIU is that Illinois wants you to go to one of 3 vendors who do electronic fingerprinting.
And you're right, there's a $55 charge to go with the application and who knows how much it costs to do the fingerprinting.
Since I am still waiting for my IPIU application, I think I'll get through that first.
So thanks neighbor - and let me know if you find out anything more about the whole issue and working, since you've been here longer than I - you'll probably know first.
Cheryl

Louis Greiner

11-19-2003, 01:03 PM

I believe that you are correct.
Louis Greiner. Good luck with everything.

Kevin E Stroud -

11-19-2003, 08:42 PM

Greetings fellow Illini!

I've already posted my introduction (and have my PERC card :) and am associated with a local PI Agency), but my ultimate goal is obtaining an agency license on my own so I've read this thread with great interest.

I'm still winding my way through the IPIU processes to access the "Establishing Your Own Agency License" Forum, and look forward to working with you all!

Kevin

Cheryl

11-20-2003, 04:43 AM

Good morning Kevin,
Aren't you enjoying our freezing weather? It's so good to live in Canada (LOL).
Can I ask you, since you are so far ahead of where I am right now, what did you do first? Get your PERC card or start working?
And what kind of assignments have you been on?
Thanks for the help,
Cheryl

Kevin E Stroud -

11-20-2003, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Cheryl Hall
Can I ask you, since you are so far ahead of where I am right now, what did you do first? Get your PERC card or start working?
And what kind of assignments have you been on?
Thanks for the help,
Cheryl

Cheryl,

Pleased to meet you! :)

Here's a link to my "Introduction": http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12236 which answers some questions. I have a significant background in intelligence and technology, and have partnered with a local PI agency on some projects. They "know the ropes" enough to have gotten me through the PERC card process (actually that was more than a year ago). Getting the PERC card didn't take real long (a few weeks at most).

The kind of work I do is computer-forensics and technology oriented and, humbly speaking, am pretty good at that part of PI work - but have no experience at other areas such as "trailing the dallying spouse" :D

I'm interested in establishing my company (I'm a business owner of a 10-person technology outfit) as a PI Agency and the process for doing that in Illinois is rather, shall we say, formidable!

So... I'm not sure I'm qualified to offer any guidance (this should put my post count all the way up to "4" ;) ) but I would recommend:
A) You pursue partnering with a local Agency, even on a part-time basis, to learn first hand from them. Not just the PI-skills part, but the Illinois State requirements.
B) You start to think about specializing in a particular area of PI work (skip-tracing, etc.)

Please do keep in touch!

Regards,

Kevin

Louis Greiner

11-20-2003, 02:34 PM

I am currently looking into this whole progress, so far it seems to be taking a little time, I know it will be worth it. There is alot to learn about different laws, but they do make you feel better when you learn them in IL.

Louis Greiner

Michael Hudson -

11-20-2003, 06:05 PM

Reference states not requiring Licensess.

The state of Alabama does not require a specific license as a PI. However, you must apply for a Business license and be registered in State and County to operate in addition to furnishing some info that you possessess the skills for this application (May be Optional). New laws are forthcoming in the future and do not not anymore that that. I personally vhave my own agency license as well as PI licenses in Florida, Georgia, Mississippi and Virginia who do require specialized training and or internships.

Cheryl

11-22-2003, 06:03 AM

Kevin,
Hi again neighbor. I just wanted to ask you (or anyone in this forum who would know) a related question.
I just read that if you wanted to open your own agency, even though you personally may not be licensed, you can have a "qualifying" person, who's license you run the agency under.
I guess this means you would only have to have a business license, at least here in Illinois.
Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks,
Cheryl

Kevin E Stroud -

11-22-2003, 09:49 AM

Cheryl,

I would "PM" you with more details, but don't have that access yet :(

I already have a business license and own a 10-person technology company and believe you're correct that I could hire someone as the "qualifying person." But honestly I'd rather just jump through the hoops myself so that I'm the "qualified person" and not then dependent on someone else.

I'm just an "independent minded person" that way! :D

Kevin

Cheryl

11-22-2003, 02:10 PM

Kevin,
I totally agree. I would be really nervous starting a business where my revenue depends on another person. That sounds like it has failure written all over it.
Plus I want to learn. I want to read as much as I can but I also want the "hands-on" knowledge.
I just thought it was a rather odd way of getting around the red-tape involved. And just as a side note, after checking Wisconsin's regulations, they're just so much easier!
Anyway, thanks for letting me pick your brain so much. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.
Have a good Saturday!
Cheryl

Louis Greiner

11-25-2003, 06:40 PM

This is great, learning more and more from everyone's comments, very busy for the next few days. Happy Holidays to all.

Louis P. Greiner

Shannon Gospodarek

01-08-2004, 11:11 PM

I really don't even know where to start. I am taking criminal justice in school right know(I just started) I would like to get into crime scene investigating or Evidentiary photography.

I was wanting to start off in an entry level investigating position now to kind of learn some of the ropes, but I'm not sure where to start.

Michael Hudson -

01-09-2004, 05:09 AM

Shannon,

You are on track. Formal training such as the one you have chosen is an excellent way to start. In the interim, I would suggest you try and get attached to a licensed agency as an intern where you can perform supervised taskings in these areas. Between the two combined you cannot go wrong. If you are not up or current on photography, you may also wish to contact an agency who specailaizes in these specific disclipines and go from there. Although with the advent of digital photography, I would suggest you become very familiar with 35MM photography first if you are not already versed. Hope this helps.

Barbara Hardin -

01-13-2004, 04:35 PM

I do have a strong interest in the Law. I have spent the last three years in Private Security, but it is not my passion. I also have been to Paralegal school. This is a good chance for me to use all my different type of skills. My husbnd and I have talk about it in great length, I do have family upon there in illinois.

Lance Jefferson

01-14-2004, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Barbara Hardin
This is a good chance for me to use all my different type of skills. My husbnd and I have talk about it in great length, I do have family upon there in illinois. Welcome. :)

Please click on the following link for a newcomer message:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5008

Daphane Davis

01-21-2004, 11:07 PM

Stephen,

This is my first time on the forum and I have read alot of the comments about obtaining a license in IL etc. Would you suggest that a newcomer first accept an assignment through IPIU before attempting to obtain a license? Secondly, where can I obtain more information about how this process works. I am brand new to the game and will need to do a lot of reading about regulations, policies, etc.

Barbara Hardin -

01-22-2004, 03:31 PM

Hi Stephen,

We are both new at this, just keep on seaching and reading about the difference regulation and policies. Also respond to the comments, that is on the difference forum. Believe me it do take time. Have a good day!

Daphane Davis

01-22-2004, 06:22 PM

Barbara,

Thanks for your reply. I'm Daphane by the way. I'll keep searching and reading. Have a good one!

Barbara Hardin -

01-31-2004, 11:12 AM

Thanks, for bring up the licensing in Illinois, have been going over the no license laws. To me it would be better to be license, you could work more independent in the field.

Jennifer L. Gilbertson-

03-21-2004, 06:43 AM

While I have yet to formally introduce myself in the Introductions forum, I thought I might go ahead and add my experience with pursueing this career in Illinois.

Many community colleges offer private investigations/security community education courses to get your PERC. I took the course and the optional firearms training. Passed and qualified. After talking to the only private investigator in my region concerning employment, I was told that upon hiring that I would have to sign a non-compete clause, which naturally dashed my hopes of pursueing an agency of my own in my region. I ended up not applying for my PERC.

Finding this board has renewed my interest and I am wondering if I need to take the course again to pursue my PERC or if my previous training would be enough. I remember that you had to recertify, but I am not sure if that was for both courses or the firearms course.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
-jini

Mark Cox

03-26-2004, 05:33 AM

William G Sheehan -

06-11-2004, 05:45 PM

It sounds like there are many of us in Illinois seeking the same goal, obtaining our PI license and having our own business at some point. It looks like IPIU is the best way to start since we need experience to get the license and local agencies are few and require non-compete agreements to work with them. By working with the national agencies, we will get our experience without being locked into the non-compete that would prevent us from achieving our goals.
Mark;

As someone who has been used over a non-compete agreement I would tell you not to worry so much about them. Basically firms don't want you to come to work for them just to learn their client base and later try and take them and their best employees. Most agreements are straight forward and you can either agree or disagree with them.

In Illinois the law allows you to form a corporation while still in someone’s employ; however, once you begin to practice or start to solicit business you must have their approval or leave your employment.

Illinois law also governs the employment agreements. They must have a defined area and a defined period of time. Say you signed an agreement for a firm in Chicago that says that you can do investigative work for two years in the State of Illinois once you leave your employment. If you left and began working in Rockford immediately the courts would most likely OK this. Usually they define an area within 60 to 100 miles and a term of 6-months. Anything is usually excessive. It is always best to have an attorney review these before signing them. By calling your local bar association you can probably have that done for under $100. Well worth the money spent to avoid a suit. Also remember an employment contract goes both ways. It also makes your employer fulfill their agreement with you.

As for myself I would never have anyone sign an employment agreement. This is a tough area to make money in. If someone wants to leave me and go on their own, let them. If they make it then the better it is for all of us. There are times I have more work than I can do. It would benefit me to have someone that I could trust to feed the work to. I would only hope for the same in return. The problem most firms have is trust. If you are good enough there is enough work out there for all of us.

Bill

William G Sheehan -

06-11-2004, 05:50 PM

Thanks, for bring up the licensing in Illinois, have been going over the no license laws. To me it would be better to be license, you could work more independent in the field.
Dear Barbara;

There are a lot of costs involved in going on your own. Think about that. Unless you have several people working for you it is a difficuly field to make a lot of money at.

There are many different aspects to this field. Decide what type of work you would like to do and then see what type of money can be made doing it.

If you would like an idea, tell me what type of PI work interests you.

Bill

Michael Held

07-29-2004, 05:06 PM

Hello all,
great information here as in all forums. I am still undergoing training here and I am learning books full of information in the forums. I haven't seen anything specific on part time work for more than one agency as long as you aren't instrumental in stealing clients and/or employees. Am I correct in presuming this is ok? Thanks for an answer in advance, Mike

William G Sheehan -

07-29-2004, 06:17 PM

Hey Mike;

Very few firms would allow you to work part-time for one form while working for another. They would claim a conflict of interest, but the true reason would be their fear of you raiding clients of one for the other. Most PI agencies would not even think about hiring another licensed PI. It is a big fear and they are right to fear it because people get to like the work of a person and they will stay with that person no matter who the agency is. If you bring a client in with you when you begin working for someone they love you. When you leave and that client leaves with you they talk suit.

What part of Illinois are you looking to work in ?

Bill

Michael Held

07-29-2004, 09:22 PM

Jennifer E Dean

07-30-2004, 09:07 AM

William G Sheehan -

07-31-2004, 05:19 AM

Bill,
thanks for the response. You do raise a valid point, even though I wouldn't intentionally raid clients for another firm. I will be looking to work in Madison and St Clair county areas, since that is the area I live in. Mike

Mike;

Unfortunately, intentions are not what people will look at. They will want to guard their business. You can’t blame them, it isn’t easy making a good living doing this work. Madison is down by St Louis, right ? Sorry, I do not know any one that way or I would point you toward them. Do you have your PERC already ? If not that would be a big help for starters. If you are by St. Louis consider soliciting firms there that may not want to cross the river.

Good luck!

Bill

William G Sheehan -

07-31-2004, 05:45 AM

Hi Bill,

Doesn't that contradict what IPIU is telling us? I've read several times from IPIU that you make the most money by working for several agencies part time rather than for one full time. It sounds though that that really isn't possible. It sounds like in the real world you are limited to working for one agency for their fear of you stealing their clients, conflict of interest, etc... Did I misunderstand something somewhere?

By the way, where in IL are you? What are you specializing in? What kind of agencies do you work for? I'm very new to this. I just finished my test. I live in downtown Chicago. I don't have a car since I live in the city. I hope that doesn't become a problem :o

Jennifer

Dear Jennifer;

Working for/getting assignments through the IPIU from numerous agencies is fine, since that is the way you are assigned the tasks, but you are not considered an employee of a particular agency. I was talking about getting work outside of the IPIU and trying to get jobs with more than one agency to have enough work to make the money you need. Many times if you get on with an agency they will have enough work and if you want more they will give it to you.

I have my own agency, Chicagoland Investigative Services, out of Chicago Ridge. I specialize in insurance fraud investigations and average driving 42,000 miles a year just in the greater Chicago area. Your lack of a vehicle will limit your options; however, you still have options. Imagine all of the companies that are served with suit papers each day in downtown alone. Someone has to do that. Parking a car would make that expensive, but it might be right up your alley. If you think that you ill like that call a company named Shadow Investigations out of Libertyville and tell them you are available in the downtown area. By all means use my name! Go to the 10th floor of the Dailey Center, (Criminal Division), any day of the week and you will see a bunch of young men and women sitting at computer terminals. They are all from private employers doing background checks by searching Cook County criminal records. Some also check other records in that same building or across the street at the Thompson Center, 8th floor, in the Industrial Commission. Stop by and talk with a few of them and ask them who they work for and the best way to get on. Consider training as a paralegal for one of the million or so law firms downtown. Many paralegals just do research or what we do. Check out the other forums about Secret Shoppers. I read where one person makes ten thousand a month just doing that. I’m sure there are thousands of things that I haven’t thought of, but it’s a BIG city with BIG needs. The best thing about not having a car is that you are never stuck in traffic.

Go to the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation and get started on getting your permanent employee registration card, PERC, http://www.idfpr.com/.

Best of luck! If you have any questions I’d be glad to help if I can.

Bill

M Michelle Le Fevre--

07-31-2004, 02:30 PM

Bill,

This is excelent information and advise. I look forward to more of your posts.

Thanks

Legal Affairs

08-01-2004, 08:12 PM

I've read several times from IPIU that you make the most money by working for several agencies part time rather than for one full time.
As Bill stated, apples and oranges is the question and tagged answer.

By and large for newcomers entering private investigations, we suggest the above. But of course there will be exceptions, such as the vital lead that Bill gave you. And I suppose if 40,000+ union members turned up at that downtown door to work full time, then that may leave a few out looking elsewhere (namely in our Level 4 Assignment Forums).

As a matter of fact, one national agency posted in our Level 4 forum is in need of an additional 5000 investigators nationwide for field work for the US government. They pay around $30,000 or more a year to start, but it is full time working for the national security of America.

To all others, this is a licensing topic. If you wish, we have the chit-chat forums for all levels in the other forums. Let's try to keep this topic on-topic.

Christopher Fryar -

08-02-2004, 09:39 AM

do u know if they are doing this in OKlahoma? If anyone could find out and tell me i would be grateful. Im all new at this so i dont know how to find out.

thank you

William G Sheehan -

08-02-2004, 05:00 PM

do u know if they are doing this in OKlahoma? If anyone could find out and tell me i would be grateful. Im all new at this so i dont know how to find out.

thank you

Dear Chris;

By doing this I assume you are talking about ther PERC, at I would say no, its an Illinois thing, though different states have similar regulations. Oklahoma Stae PI info can be obtained by going to: http://www.cleet.state.ok.us/Private_Security.htm

The IPIU has limited info on Oklahoma beginning at the thread: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10216

Bill

Edward Ruebensam

08-05-2004, 05:57 PM

Dear Jennifer;

Working for/getting assignments through the IPIU from numerous agencies is fine, since that is the way you are assigned the tasks, but you are not considered an employee of a particular agency. I was talking about getting work outside of the IPIU and trying to get jobs with more than one agency to have enough work to make the money you need. Many times if you get on with an agency they will have enough work and if you want more they will give it to you.

I have my own agency, Chicagoland Investigative Services, out of Chicago Ridge. I specialize in insurance fraud investigations and average driving 42,000 miles a year just in the greater Chicago area. Your lack of a vehicle will limit your options; however, you still have options. Imagine all of the companies that are served with suit papers each day in downtown alone. Someone has to do that. Parking a car would make that expensive, but it might be right up your alley. If you think that you ill like that call a company named Shadow Investigations out of Libertyville and tell them you are available in the downtown area. By all means use my name! Go to the 10th floor of the Dailey Center, (Criminal Division), any day of the week and you will see a bunch of young men and women sitting at computer terminals. They are all from private employers doing background checks by searching Cook County criminal records. Some also check other records in that same building or across the street at the Thompson Center, 8th floor, in the Industrial Commission. Stop by and talk with a few of them and ask them who they work for and the best way to get on. Consider training as a paralegal for one of the million or so law firms downtown. Many paralegals just do research or what we do. Check out the other forums about Secret Shoppers. I read where one person makes ten thousand a month just doing that. I’m sure there are thousands of things that I haven’t thought of, but it’s a BIG city with BIG needs. The best thing about not having a car is that you are never stuck in traffic.

Go to the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation and get started on getting your permanent employee registration card, PERC, http://www.idfpr.com/.

Best of luck! If you have any questions I’d be glad to help if I can.

Bill

So what skills would I need to get a job in insurance fraud investigations. I don't live to far from Chicago Ridge and do you take on interns? :)

William G Sheehan -

08-05-2004, 09:19 PM

So what skills would I need to get a job in insurance fraud investigations. I don't live to far from Chicago Ridge and do you take on interns? :)

Hello Ed;

As far as skills it is difficult to say. 25-years ago I started my by investigating underwritting applications for insurance and later moved into claims and from there fraud. The progression helped me understand insurance, but I have trained many fine investigators who had no prior experience with insurance. When it comes down to it DESIRE is a skill that you can not teach. Most people look at the job thinking that it i a good way for them to earn a living without working too hard. I started at five this morning and just walked in a little after 10. Not everyday is like that, it just feels that way.

As far as interns go I have done a few, but here again if it is someone really wanting a look at the profession I do not mind it, but it is not sitting around making copies and getting coffee. I have yet to have an intern get into this line of work after being with us for a few weeks. If you did not like home work in school, I would look into something else.

What town are you from ?

Bill

Edward Ruebensam

08-05-2004, 10:58 PM

William G Sheehan -

08-06-2004, 10:31 PM

Bill

I live in Palos Hills, and I can understand the hard work. I don't mind homework and I don't like sitting around. I would rather be busy then bored. If possible I would like to come by and just check out what you do if that is alright with you. I currently have a full time job at the Department of Veterans Affairs as a Motor Vehicle Operator, but I am a temporary worker. Right now my off days are Thursday and Friday and I work Monday to Wednesday 5:30am - 2:00pm.

What would you suggest starting off in?

Dear Ed;

I would not be averse to having you ride with me one day to see how you would like this line of work; however, I believe that they frown upon personal contact through the forums. You may wish to checkout www.1chicagoland.com for other lines of approach.

I am extremely busy right now and would need at least two weeks before anything could be done.

Bill

Edward Ruebensam

08-07-2004, 08:16 AM

William G Sheehan -

08-07-2004, 01:09 PM

Bill

I understand what you are saying. I checked out your web site and I like the design. I also read the job descriptions that you do so I can see that you are busy.

"I am extremely busy right now and would need at least two before anything could be done." Do you mean level 2?

Where would you suggest I get my fingerprints done and the photos? I was thinking about the local Police Department if they will do the fingerprints, but I would like to know some other places that will do this. As for the photos I was just going to go somewhere that does passport photos.

I can understand about the personal contact. I just reread the "Code of Ethics Agreement and Mission Statement" and number 16 (What are the forum rules) covers this topic and I think you are right.

Ed

Dear Ed;

You threw me for a second there, until I reread my comment and saw that I had intended to write the word "weeks". So it should have read two weeks.

For the IPIU I believe that you MUST have your local police department do the finger prints. Walgreens/Osco/Wolf Camera can all do the passport photo.

Did you find your old PERC information ?

Bill

Edward Ruebensam

08-07-2004, 10:26 PM

Bill,

Yes I have my old PERC information. I am going to call for the renewal application on Monday.

Ed

William G Sheehan -

08-07-2004, 10:41 PM

Bill,

Yes I have my old PERC information. I am going to call for the renewal application on Monday.

Ed

Ed;

Sounds good.

Did you check out the link in my last message ?

Bill

Edward Ruebensam

08-07-2004, 10:58 PM

Bill

I checked out your web site www.1chicagoland.com and I like the design. I also read the job descriptions that you do so I can see that you are busy.

Ed
Bill

This is the only web site that you sent.

Ed

Edward Ruebensam

08-07-2004, 11:03 PM

Bill,

I sorry you did send another web sitr www.idfpr.com. This is the site I got the phone number for the renewal application.

Ed

William G Sheehan -

08-07-2004, 11:39 PM

Bill,

I sorry you did send another web sitr www.idfpr.com. This is the site I got the phone number for the renewal application.

Ed

Ed;

No, it was the first one you mentioned that I was talking about.

Bill

Bozica N Newell

08-31-2004, 03:31 PM

Thank you all for the important info that I needed. It really did help to know what steps to take in the right direction. Thanks Again!

Andrea Lewis-

10-04-2004, 02:11 PM

William G Sheehan -

10-04-2004, 02:58 PM

The discription to me indicates that if I work for a agency, I don't need the license. I am looking to do this PT either through a agency or on my own networking. Am I to assume that I just say I am a case examiner and not a licensed PI to avoid legal trouble while I am doing it on my own? Or do I have to have the license to say I am a case worker?? does anybody out there know? :rolleyes:

Dear Andrea;

1st, if you work for an agency you would need to have a PERC, (Permanent Employee Registration Card). To become licensed you would need to work under a licensed PI for two years.

Now many professions gather information without being, or needing to be licensed as a PI. Insurance Adjuster and information brokers for example do not need to be licensed as a PI to do their work. The key here is that they are not governed by the Department of Professional Regulation. When you are governed, (such as when you have a PERC), they can fine the %#$@ out of you. If you are unlicensed and unregistered then the most that they can do is ask the Attorney General’s Office to issue you a cease and desist order.

The purpose of the license and the regulations is to show that you have demonstrated a fair amount of training and that you have liability insurance. Both are measures to protect the public.

Where they will come after you is with your advertising. If you advertise services make sure they are not ones, (such as surveillance), that require a license, unless you are licensed.

If you give me a better idea as to the type of work you are looking to do I can let you know what my opinion is as far as you needing to be licensed. Remember, it is just an opinion and everybody has one. Some are just bigger opinions.

Bill

Robin M Ellefsen

10-12-2004, 06:08 AM

Larry, thanks alot for the web-site address, got right to the PERC form. Printed it and the info. out. The form has a line(#12) for the agency to fill out for a new employee. It tells me that you probably could wait to hook up with an agancy before getting your PERC and they will do it for/with you.

Clayton Merrill--

11-01-2004, 07:43 AM

William G Sheehan -

11-01-2004, 09:38 AM

I'm currently a police officer with a BA in Criminal Justice. I'm Looking to get into the private field. It appears that there is no need for me to get a license???? Any advised would greatly be appreciated. Thank You

Dear Clayton;

Though it is true that you are not required to have a PERC as an ACTIVE duty police officer, you will be required to have one if you leave the department. You will also be required to go through the PI licensing process if you decide to seek work on your own. Being a police officer definitely has its' advantages, just be careful seeking out work on your own.

Bill

Clayton Merrill--

11-01-2004, 01:10 PM

Dear Bill,
Thanks for the information.

Michael Hudson -

11-01-2004, 07:14 PM

Hi Clayton;

Referen is made to your request for info re; Alabama laws. as of this time there are no state legislative laws in effect as we speak. Howevcer we are working dilligently in getting ouor draft charter passed on the floor soon. You will need of course a business license and should be bonded and insured.
The draft bill will be quite strigent. This is long over do and we encourage it since a lot of people think there is nothig to this career field and wind up either sued, jailed or fined for numerouos violations. Having coming from local law enforcement, owill certainly help as it is me. I am a retired Federal Agent and you will see it is a totally different world ouoot here. The badge and gun is a thing of the past in this arena. Many people assume they can come accross the border with flat zero background and real world experience and think they are 007's. It does not work here. If you do not have any background eithere from former Law Enforcement or other private sector investrigative experience forget it. No attorney in the land will even take a second look. It is also a good idea to become member of professional organizations such as NALI which law firms look at. Until the long overde legislation comes, we will continue to make do with what we have as well as do all we can to preserve our credibility.

If you have not already done so, I urge you to contact the newly formed orgnaization APIA (Alabama Professional Investigations Association) we are the group who has worked on the draft bill for legislation. Go IPIA.com.

Best

M Hudsn

Debra Lewis -

01-03-2005, 07:21 PM

What is needed for verification of hours worked for PI firm, to then set for the test.
Does the individual keep track of their hours, or does the employer do that?

William G Sheehan -

01-03-2005, 08:10 PM

What is needed for verification of hours worked for PI firm, to then set for the test.
Does the individual keep track of their hours, or does the employer do that?

Dear Debra;

There is really no way to track your hours. Basically it is a trust system with you and the PI who will sign off on your experience. Plus you should have your PERC for the minimum time needed before applying.

Before applying decide if you really need to be licensed. With all of the costs and the amount of competition this really is not a field that you can jump into and start making a lot of money. If you work for only one firm, (say a single insurance company or law firm), you are not required to be licensed. If you have a client that can provide you with a regular income stream you may be able to get a licensed PI to allow you to work under their license for a small percentage.

This is definitely a field where men and women are equal. I support you going farther into to it all the way. If you are planning to start your own agency make sure that you have more capital than you think you will need. Cases will be hard to come by at first and then you have to put up with limited budgets and SLOW paying clients.

When you complete your application make sure that you obtain the study guide and order all of the materials that are listed in the guide. It is a difficult test, but the questions are taken from the reference material that they quote. Police Officers have a definite heads up on the test as they are more familiar with the criminal statues and the questions directly related to criminal charges. There are also several questions on State Government, so know the make-up of the Illinois State Government.

If you have any specific questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Bill

Kevin E Stroud -

01-04-2005, 07:30 AM

Debra Lewis -

01-04-2005, 08:32 AM

Your answer was clear and helpful...Thank you.
If you work for multiple agencies, then do they all sign off?
Or does only the agency that has given you the most experience sign off...

William G Sheehan -

01-04-2005, 09:04 AM

Bill,

I've been working part-time under a PI Agency for a little over two years now and that, coupled with my educational background, I believe qualifies me to get my own agency license so I'm getting ready to head down that road.

I wasn't aware, however, that my "current employing agency" would have to sign off on my experience, but that's what I gather from your post above - true?!

I was kinda hoping to be able to get my own agency license without involving my current employer (as I kinda don't think they're going to like it!) ;)

So... am I screwed here, buddy?! Thanks for your (bigger than average) opinion! :D

Kevin

Dear Kevin;

You should still be OK. I take it that you have had your PERC card during that time. You may also have pay stubs that would prove your employment. Even if you do not I would apply anyhow and just submit a letter with your application indicating that if you got the licensed agent of your agency to sign off it would adversely affect your employment. No one wants you to loose your job, so I believe that you will be OK.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is against Illinois employment practices to solicit sales while you are employed if it is a conflict with the work/product your current employer offers. You can do everything from getting licensed and incorporating, but the moment you are prepared to begin to seek business you must quit or give notice to your current employer of your intentions.

Good employees are hard to come by. If your current employer is OK with your intentions and still wants to keep you on as an employee I would formerly write your intentions to your employer so that nothing can be used against you in the future. I speak from experience here. I worked for a guy that I would trust with my life wound up suing me over an employment issue. Cover your bases!

Bill

William G Sheehan -

01-04-2005, 09:28 AM

Your answer was clear and helpful...Thank you.
If you work for multiple agencies, then do they all sign off?
Or does only the agency that has given you the most experience sign off...

Dear Debra;

You are most welcome!

You will only need one, and possibly not even that. I take it that you have had your PERC for the minimum time needed. That alone should get it for you. You can always write a letter with your application to explain your experience and who you worked under.

Give it a try. It can not hurt. The deadline for the next test may already be at hand. That will give you until July to apply for the September test and give you a ton of time to study the study guide material. I did not follow this advice and failed my first test.

Bill

Kevin E Stroud -

01-04-2005, 09:50 AM

Samir Tulic

01-04-2005, 07:02 PM

I have PERC,FOID,AND TAN CARD,AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR PI JOB .......:o(

Samir Tulic

01-04-2005, 07:07 PM

I have PERC,FOID,and TAN CARD,and I AM STILL looking for PI job .......:o(Thank you.

William G Sheehan -

01-06-2005, 10:02 PM

I have PERC,FOID,AND TAN CARD,AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR PI JOB .......:o(

Samir;

You have worked for Diamond & Illinois Security. What type of PI job are you speaking of ?

Bill

William G Sheehan -

01-06-2005, 10:19 PM

Bill,

Yes I've had my PERC and FAC (Firearm Authorization Card) for about 2 1/2 years, so IL/DPR can verify I've been "alive" at least. :)

I'm well up on employment practices and really am an "above board guy". The situation is that I own a technology business and occasionally do technology-oriented work (key-logging, computer forensics, etc.) for my current employing agency, but they don't really "advertise" that as one of their services - whatever work in that area they happen to get they use me for. I think that's a growing market and would like to pursue it (advertise, "seek" clients, etc.) as a service of my technology company - and over a much larger geographic area.

This would be entirely new clientele for these services, so I don't see a real conflict with my current employing agency, but I'm also sure that nobody likes to see (potential) competition sprout up around them - even indirect competition - so that's why I'm trying to avoid getting their sign-off. However I may have no choice!

Appreciate your input and will let you know how it goes!!!

Regards,

Kevin

Dear Kevin;

I wonder if the problem might be they don't know how to advertise the work. Do you have any ideas there ? It is a portion of the field that I have needed once and that would have come in helpful a couple of other times, but not anything that I get into myself.

You sound like you will good to go for the test; however, you won't be able to take it until September. If you have a target audience that you want to go after you might want to sever ties with your current firm, so that there will not be a problem taking clients you developed when you leave. It would seem to me that you are in an area where you could go after that type of work without being licensed. The worse case scenario would be for your current/past employer to learn your plans and make complaint on you. Otherwise who would know that you are not licensed or that you are doing investigative work -vs- computer work? By the time things would be said and done you would have already taken the test.

When you get up and running look me up in Chicagoland under Investigations as you are a useful contact with a talent that I will most likely need in the near future.

Bill

Caitlin Howell -

05-07-2005, 09:51 PM

What is a TAN card? Is this an Illinois thing or something else entirely?

Caitlin Howell -

05-07-2005, 10:16 PM

Kevin, your situation interests me for a few reasons. One of which is that you're working part time for a PI agency in Illinois and applying that experience towards your PI application. The application at "Examination - Based on Education and Experience" (http://www.ildpr.com/apply/forms/pd-ex-ed.pdf)
mentions a requirement for full time work for an agency. Since I also want to work full time in one job unrelated to investigation while I work part time for a PI agency I want to know how proceeding through this process goes. I've heard that as long as the agency signs off on your hours, you will meet the requirement, but I would like to hear about someone's recent experience.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is against Illinois employment practices to solicit sales while you are employed if it is a conflict with the work/product your current employer offers. You can do everything from getting licensed and incorporating, but the moment you are prepared to begin to seek business you must quit or give notice to your current employer of your intentions.

It did not occur to me that there would be an Illinois employment practice. I was mostly concerned about keeping my current employer happy-- they will be concerned as I pick up more hours as to whether I have enough time and energy to focus on the current job. I don't think there will be a conflict that falls under this practice since my employer sells a product totally unrelated to security and my role with them is not directly related to security.

Finally, like Kevin, because my background is in IT, I am also interested in computer forensics. One thing that I have found in reading about this is that PI agencies as employers of people with computer forensics skills will prefer people with law enforcement and criminal justice knowledge over computer knowledge, and train them in the computer knowledge they need. Is this a fallacy? Or does it just make it all the more important to get law enforcement exposure for those people to set themselves apart?

In Illinois then, where we need to get agency experience to get a detective license, is someone with an IT background better off marketing themselves as an independent consultant in computer forensics and foregoing the license? How would that limit their activities?

William G Sheehan -

05-08-2005, 06:15 PM

Kevin, your situation interests me for a few reasons. One of which is that you're working part time for a PI agency in Illinois and applying that experience towards your PI application. The application at "Examination - Based on Education and Experience" (http://www.ildpr.com/apply/forms/pd-ex-ed.pdf)
mentions a requirement for full time work for an agency. Since I also want to work full time in one job unrelated to investigation while I work part time for a PI agency I want to know how proceeding through this process goes. I've heard that as long as the agency signs off on your hours, you will meet the requirement, but I would like to hear about someone's recent experience.

It did not occur to me that there would be an Illinois employment practice. I was mostly concerned about keeping my current employer happy-- they will be concerned as I pick up more hours as to whether I have enough time and energy to focus on the current job. I don't think there will be a conflict that falls under this practice since my employer sells a product totally unrelated to security and my role with them is not directly related to security.

Finally, like Kevin, because my background is in IT, I am also interested in computer forensics. One thing that I have found in reading about this is that PI agencies as employers of people with computer forensics skills will prefer people with law enforcement and criminal justice knowledge over computer knowledge, and train them in the computer knowledge they need. Is this a fallacy? Or does it just make it all the more important to get law enforcement exposure for those people to set themselves apart?

In Illinois then, where we need to get agency experience to get a detective license, is someone with an IT background better off marketing themselves as an independent consultant in computer forensics and foregoing the license? How would that limit their activities?

Dear Kevin;

The worse thing that will happen is that the DPR, (Department of Professional Regulation), will tell you that you need a license. The way things are setup they can not fine you if you are not licensed. Sounds odd, but first they would ask you to stop practicing without a license, if they knew about you and if they determined a license was required. Even then they would most likely grant you an extension to practice without a license to give you time to get one. If you refuse to follow their requests/advice the they could go to the Attorney General’s Office and have them issue you a cease and desists order. The true purpose behind having people to be required to be licensed is to protect the public, (require liability protection); make sure people performing the work are trained and to collect funds in the order of licensing fees. As far as I know the DPR is the only State Agency that does not require monies from the general fund to operate.

Bill

William G Sheehan -

05-08-2005, 06:28 PM

What is a TAN card? Is this an Illinois thing or something else entirely?

Dear Caitlin;

Yes, a Tan Card is an Illinois thing. To my knowledge it is the only item that will allow non law enforcement personnel to carry a weapon in the State. It is issued under the Private Detective Act, so you must be employed as a Private Detective, Security Officer or Alarm Contractor to even get one. If you are able to get one it can only be done at the request of your employer and then it is issued to your employer in your name. You are required to turn the card in to your employer upon termination.

The act further says that you may only carry the weapon with you during your hours of employment and up to an hour before and after your shift to cover your commute. The card will state the type of weapon you can carry and requires that you receive the 20-hours training on the use of the weapon and re-qualify with the weapon whenever you need to renew the card which is valid for five years.

One good thing about the Tan card is that it allows you to own and possess a firearm in Chicago. If you knew Chicago’s laws, you would know that, that is a big thing. If anyone is interested in knowing the rule that allows you to supercede Chicago’s law on firearms let me know and I will send it to you.

Bill

Kevin E Stroud -

05-09-2005, 07:15 AM

Dear Kevin;

The worse thing that will happen is that the DPR, (Department of Professional Regulation), will tell you that you need a license. The way things are setup they can not fine you if you are not licensed. Sounds odd, but first they would ask you to stop practicing without a license, if they knew about you and if they determined a license was required. Even then they would most likely grant you an extension to practice without a license to give you time to get one. If you refuse to follow their requests/advice the they could go to the Attorney General’s Office and have them issue you a cease and desists order. The true purpose behind having people to be required to be licensed is to protect the public, (require liability protection); make sure people performing the work are trained and to collect funds in the order of licensing fees. As far as I know the DPR is the only State Agency that does not require monies from the general fund to operate.

Bill

I'm not practicing without a license now - and don't plan to! :) - just have to jump through the hoops to get a license on my own, but that's a long range goal that I'm still navigating and the laws just recently changed to make that even tougher :(

Caitlin - the Illinois "Firearm Authorization Card" (FAC) is tan in color.

Kevin

Caitlin Howell -

05-09-2005, 05:15 PM

I'm not practicing without a license now - and don't plan to! :) - just have to jump through the hoops to get a license on my own, but that's a long range goal that I'm still navigating and the laws just recently changed to make that even tougher :(

Caitlin - the Illinois "Firearm Authorization Card" (FAC) is tan in color.

Kevin

I certainly wouldn't want you to practice as a Private Investigator without a license, but given your special skills, I wonder if there is a place for you to work as a consultant in computer forensics without having a license, and how not having a PI license would legally limit what tasks you could do? Or actually-- I'm wondering if this is something I could do.

So the FAC = the TAN? And this card is not the FOID (the generic Firearm Owner's ID) which does nothing to allow you to carry a firearm within Chicago's city limits. I have a FOID but not a FAC.

Michael Robinson

05-09-2005, 11:50 PM

If you knew Chicago’s laws, you would know that, that is a big thing. If anyone is interested in knowing the rule that allows you to supercede Chicago’s law on firearms let me know and I will send it to you.

Bill

Bill,

I just had to jump in here on this one my friend. Most people that live outside Illinois don't understand that Chicago is really a state within a state. lol I live south of I-80, and I can tell you that for the most part the laws are different for those of us living south of I-80

Michael Robinson

Kevin E Stroud -

05-10-2005, 06:44 AM

Caitlin-

I'm just an independent sort of guy I guess! :) Actually, the technology company I own/manage is 10 people (plus I own another commercial real estate company) so I'm not sweating the business end of running my own operation. Also, since I'm not an independent Agency, there are limits (such as being able to have a FAC, which I get through my employing agency).

Yes, the FAC=TAN, which is not the FOID - got enough stinking regulations in this state or what?! :)

I'm moderately well-versed on the Illinois firearm statutes and you want to be extra careful even having an unloaded, disassembled, locked-in-a-case firearm within the Chicago city limits with just a FOID card. Basically, if you're a resident then it's completely illegal to own a handgun, if you're "just passing through" then it supposed to be legal but if discovered by an officer then expect to have it confiscated and then you get to hassle with getting it back. With a FAC/Tan card you can legally carry in Chicago, but there are many other exclusions you need to be aware of (schools, government buildings, etc.). And don't take the word of any semi-anonymous Internet jockey (such as myself :) ) on this stuff - read it for yourself and understand it! The Illinois compiled statutes are at this link: http://www.ilga.gov and you need to lookup 720 ILCS 5/Art. 24

Regards,

Kevin

John Armes --

05-31-2005, 08:49 AM

Kevin E Stroud -

06-02-2005, 07:26 AM

John Armes --

06-02-2005, 10:30 AM

John,

First question is: are you a geek? :)

I'm not saying that forensics is an unlearnable skill (nobody was born knowing this stuff!) but it does take years to get comfortable and understand the relationships between hardware, operating systems, and numerous applications.

Personally, I have undergraduate degrees in Math and Computer Engineering, then a Master's from Johns Hopkins in Software Engineering, plus a PILE of Microsoft Certifications.

So, step one is be (or become) a really good geek in general. Step two is to start dabbling with some of the data recovery programs and keylogging applications.

Kevin

Hi Kevin... No, I don't have any certifications or a degree in the area, but I had one of the first home computers and have been dabbeling in computers sinse they were first made available on the home market... I have a friend that has a computer business that pretty well knows his way around a computer that I may incorproate his help... I know I will have to find some tallent in that area to work with... Can you suggest some data recovery programs or keylogging apps that I can get familiar with... Is there anyone that gives classes on computer forensics... Thanks for the information...

John

Flora Porter

06-29-2005, 07:07 AM

Dear Caitlin;

Yes, a Tan Card is an Illinois thing. To my knowledge it is the only item that will allow non law enforcement personnel to carry a weapon in the State. It is issued under the Private Detective Act, so you must be employed as a Private Detective, Security Officer or Alarm Contractor to even get one. If you are able to get one it can only be done at the request of your employer and then it is issued to your employer in your name. You are required to turn the card in to your employer upon termination.

The act further says that you may only carry the weapon with you during your hours of employment and up to an hour before and after your shift to cover your commute. The card will state the type of weapon you can carry and requires that you receive the 20-hours training on the use of the weapon and re-qualify with the weapon whenever you need to renew the card which is valid for five years.

One good thing about the Tan card is that it allows you to own and possess a firearm in Chicago. If you knew Chicago’s laws, you would know that, that is a big thing. If anyone is interested in knowing the rule that allows you to supercede Chicago’s law on firearms let me know and I will send it to you.

Bill
Thanks Bill,

You have been so helpful. ;)

PI FPorter

Marcin Strumilowski

06-29-2005, 09:53 AM

Chicago and Illinois I call tyrants.. That is what they are.....unconstitutional laws that violate the 2nd ammendment and bill of rights as well as the state constitution.
That is why i dont live in the City and further support its tyranical ways.

Someone wrote that in order to get a FAC card ( Firearm Authorization Card) you ned to take a 20 hour course. The 20 hours course is one all Investigative Employees need to take before working for a particular agency. In order to recieve the Fac card...it is necesary to complete a 40 hour Firearms course. ( 20 hrs- Clasroom & 20 hrs -Field)

Now when applying for the card make sure you are applying for the correct one. If you have one for a Propriatery Security force this DOES NOT enable you to carry a weapon as a private detective. You must complete the course for a PRIVATE DETECTIVE.

Additionaly there are 3 diferent weapons to certify for.
Semi-Auto
Shotgun
Rifle.

If you are not qualified in each you may not carry that weapon.
If you work for a company you will work under their PI license and their Insurance ( which is costly) for Firearms. Uppon leaving you will not be authorize dto cary your weapon.

If you have your own PI license than things are diferent assuming that you have all the neccesary insurance policys, etc. in place. You are then responsible for yourself.
As you are a licensed private investigator full time you may carry your weapon full time. (certain restrictions apply)

Marcin Strumilowski

06-29-2005, 09:57 AM

Am i mistaken that you may start to work for a company while awaiting your perc card to be finalized?

Thanks up front,
Marty

Alonzo Mosley Jr -

06-30-2005, 02:22 AM

Marcin:

I stopped here for a moment and I read your posts. You've really been doing your homework in my opinion. Let me respond however to your question regarding the Permanent Employee Registration Card here in Illinois, based on my tenure as a one time Human Resources Director in the industry. It is true that IDFPR will allow you to work while awaiting the issuance of your PERC. It is an Agency decision however, as to whether the they will hire you at that state of processing, and many will. Primarily you need to verify proof of the necessary training via your certificate and a copy of your PERC application, just prior to mailing, as verification that you have applied. The HR Director will be bound to check you application status which will most likely open the door to you if they like you otherwise. You then should notify the company as soon as you've received your card, ending your tenuous status. Hoped this has helped.

Marcin Strumilowski

06-30-2005, 08:14 AM

I realy appreciate your help. Now im sure.

Mark E Juppe--

07-06-2005, 03:12 PM

David:
I saw the reply you posted regarding Illinois's Licensing laws. By any chance, would have Michigan's handy? Thanks!

Mark E. Juppe

Cynthia Ford

07-07-2005, 02:20 PM

Mark E Juppe,

You wrote: "I saw the reply you posted regarding Illinois's Licensing laws. By any chance, would have Michigan's handy? Thanks!"

Answer: Just go back to the LICENSING FORUM FOR PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS and look further down the long list of state titles for the Michigan Topic. If you still get lost, you can always post a question in your personal Introduction Topic where the online trainers and moderators can direct you.

Cynthia

Robert Donovan

07-07-2005, 05:33 PM

Cynthia Ford

07-07-2005, 05:35 PM

Thanks. :)
Anytime. :D

Alan Nylund--

09-16-2005, 10:58 PM

I have read through the Illinois law regarding the requirements to be a licensed private investigator but it seems like you have to work for one agency or other licensed professional for 3 years out of the last 5. Maybe I am reading this wrong but I know that IPIU allows training from many different agencies. Will this be a problem when it comes time to apply for my own license?

Mark E Juppe--

09-18-2005, 09:26 AM

I don't believe IPIU will be a problem with the Department of Professional Regulation. You will have to either go to work for a licensed PI Firm for 3 years, or 1 year with a 4 year degree, I think. One thing you should really get your head around is the exam in Illinois. Man! It is really some kind of test!!!

How many fire extinguishers are required for a building which has 15 floors, and an estimated 600 people employed in it during the average work day?

How many sprinkler heads are required when each floor has 4 separate hallways 15' & 25' paralel?

There is so much that deals with alarms, fire safety, etc. that I really don't understand how they can call it a Private DETECTIVE exam.

You may want to look into another state. Up to you.

Mark E. Juppe

Technical Support

09-18-2005, 04:54 PM

I have read through the Illinois law regarding the requirements to be a licensed private investigator but it seems like you have to work for one agency or other licensed professional for 3 years out of the last 5.
Perhaps, but applying for your own agency license as the owner with the help of IPIU will probably save you years of time because of the allowances the agency application permits owners to own rather than to have the experience. For Level 4 union members, go to the member forum titled OBTAINING YOUR LICENSE.

Maybe I am reading this wrong but I know that IPIU allows training from many different agencies. That's because over half of the assignments a licensed agency performs does not reuire a PI License. But the PI License allows the agency to advertise for all of those assignments. Carefully read the exemptions in the statutes.

Will this be a problem when it comes time to apply for my own license?Make sure you keep very accurate records of your earnings, the type of assignments, the employers, and all of the other details. Experience is a funny thing. You may be surprise to learn that record keeping is the key to obtaining all of your experience.

Also understand as an agency owner, using another fully licensed PI to manager your cases, you inturn can do the assignments under their management and be paid as a trainee at the same time of earning owner profits and experience ratings.

Mark E Juppe--

09-18-2005, 09:52 PM

I'm located in Michigan too, now. I don't believe Michigan has a test for licensing. I believe all you have to have is so many years of experience, and pay the licensing fee, get the insurance, yada yada...

I do have the regulations. However, I will have to dig them out. If you don't mind waiting for a couple of days, I can let you know. But you might get faster results if you just call the secretary of state's office, in Lansing.

Regards,

Mark E. Juppe

Alan Nylund--

09-19-2005, 05:18 PM

Thanks for that useful information. In the training manual I remember it saying something about being able to own an agency without a PI license and gaining experience from that. I guess that is something that I will look into. How do you get a PI with a license to agree to something like that anyway? I have to say that it seems a bit scary to jump into an ownership like that but then again you don't get anywhere without a few risks, right?

Robert Donovan

09-19-2005, 05:38 PM

How do you get a PI with a license to agree to something like that anyway? I have to say that it seems a bit scary to jump into an ownership like that but then again you don't get anywhere without a few risks, right?
As Tech Support suggested, the answers are in the Level 4 members forum titled Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=17). There is no risk to the IPIU plan becuase you hold all of the cards. :)

Eric Ayers -

11-11-2005, 11:29 AM

Cheryl, speaking of a PERC card, how does one obtain one, and do I need one, even if I've lived in the U.S. my whole life?

Jonathan Persky

12-03-2005, 07:46 AM

I'm about to complete a program for personal interest, which will also just help with investigative experience.

If one wants to offer their services in workers compensation surveillance or do video surveillance, with not as much experience as the 'licensed' investigaor, IS there any suggestion you can give to me about how to do this? I am told one wouldnt need a license to that , per-sey in Illinois from what i gathered. I NEED more info about how I may obtain experience in networking for this job? please advise.

I did receive some information this week that was Very useful . I also dont mind traveling 50 + miles for the experience. :)

Thanks

William G Sheehan -

12-03-2005, 02:42 PM

I'm about to complete the program 000 has to offer for personal interest, which will also just help with investigative experience.

If one wants to offer their services in workers compensation surveillance or do video surveillance, with not as much experience as the 'licensed' investigaor, IS there any suggestion you can give to me about how to do this? I am told one wouldnt need a license to that , per-sey in Illinois from what i gathered. I NEED more info about how I may obtain experience in networking for this job? please advise.

000 is approved and will be enrolling in that soon, Bill

I did receive some information this week that was Very useful . I also dont mind traveling 50 + miles for the experience. :)

Thanks

Jon;

Yes it would require you to be licensed. The only way around that would be if you worked for a company, (not an investigation company), and did work only for them. Say you worked for Kraft Foods and did only investigations for them. In that case and in only that type of an instance you would not be required to be licensed.

Any time you advertise investigative work you are required to be licensed.

Suggestions about surveillance, yes, I have several. Generally I train someone in that for over a month before letting them out on their own. There are techniques and rules and equipment to know. There are some books on the subject; however, I have OJT to be the best.

Some books that were written on the subject were done by a Chicago area guy named Bill Kizorek, who founded & operated InPhoto, a large surveillance company that was bought up by a national outfit.

I think you can still get his books through the following:

DISABILITY OR DECEPTION (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1034)

CLAIMS DETECTIVE TRAINING MANUAL (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1035)

PSYCHOLOGICAL CLAIMS INVESTIGATION (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1036)

Also, regarding another post, there is nothing in the Illinois PI test about fire extinguishers or sprinkler heads. That could be covered as part of the Security Contractors test, but not under the PI exam.

There are Four sections of the Illinois DPR’s test. There is the general questions (100) that everyone must answer on State government; 50-questions for PI’s; 50-questions for Security Contractors and 50-questions for Alarm Contractors.

If you are only going for your PI license you would answer questions 1 to 150.

If you are taking all three you would answer all 250 questions.

The study material guidelines they provide are good and if you apply yourself to them you will pass the test. These are something that you will have to order and pay for.

FYI

Bill

Donna Reagan

12-03-2005, 05:43 PM

Jon and Bill,

I edited the links for the books you mentioned to the IPIU Book Store, where Preferred Members receive a 10% off and free shipping on orders over $75, while Management Members receive aq 25% off.

Thanks,

Donna

https://www.privateinvestigators.cc/images/disability.gif (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1034)

<hr>
https://www.privateinvestigators.cc/images/claims.gif (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1035)

<hr>
https://www.privateinvestigators.cc/images/claims2.JPG (http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/product_info.php?products_id=1036)

Robert Donovan

01-18-2006, 10:36 AM

:))

Jon and Bill and others,

The previous off-topic discussion was moved to the following Level 4 members area:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27218

And to Bill, your union dues expired along with your Level 3 and 4 access. Please click on the following renewal link:

http://www.privateinvestigators.cc/index.php?cPath=73&osCsid=3748545532dcd2f9b14d4fcdd9426244

All my best,

Robert

Craig W Miller -

03-12-2006, 04:35 PM

Illinois is very stringent on their licensing requirements and if you work for someone else, you do need to obtain a PERC

Jonathan Persky

03-13-2006, 12:03 AM

Well licensing laws are stringent in Illinois, correct, more so in other states, just an fyi.

There is the oppportunity for folks to succeed in the industry, if the diligence is there

I wanted to make a remark on the Perc Card .

It takes a fingerprint card , an easy $40-$50 fee to satisfy a few years, and some application time (quick state felon/criminal check) It's not as diffiicult to obtain if somebody is prevailing in the security industry here:D

thanks

Tammy Bramlett -

03-15-2006, 04:00 PM

Does anyone know how long it takes to receive your PERC card? I applied for my PERC after I took the 20 hr. course on 1/28/06 and I'm still waiting. I've tried calling Springfield three days straight and got placed on hold for 20+ minutes.

Craig W Miller -

04-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Craig W Miller -

04-05-2006, 06:30 PM

A tan card is a 40 hor fire arms training card

William G Sheehan -

04-06-2006, 05:26 PM

William G Sheehan -

04-06-2006, 05:33 PM

It normally takes 2 weeks for you laser finger prints to clear and then the PERC is sent out after the IL DPR gets all of your paperwork. In most cases it takes anywhere from 2 weeks after your fingerprints clear to 2 months. IDPR is backed up right now.:confused:

Actaully your fingerprints via Live Scan clear in about two hours as long as there is not problems developed. Everything is automated. Once a problem is developed a human must get involved and there comes a problem and delay. Several weeks minimum if you send in a printed card.

DPR is the hold-up. Since theyt were combined with other agencies it has only gotten worse.

When calling the DPR ask them if the fingerprints have cleared. If they tell you they have the FBI but not the State Police you have a problem. The State Police always clears first and are then sent onto the FBI. If this happens the best course of action would be to have your fingerprints resubmitted.

Craig W Miller -

04-06-2006, 05:55 PM

Actaully your fingerprints via Live Scan clear in about two hours as long as there is not problems developed. Everything is automated. Once a problem is developed a human must get involved and there comes a problem and delay. Several weeks minimum if you send in a printed card.

DPR is the hold-up. Since theyt were combined with other agencies it has only gotten worse.

When calling the DPR ask them if the fingerprints have cleared. If they tell you they have the FBI but not the State Police you have a problem. The State Police always clears first and are then sent onto the FBI. If this happens the best course of action would be to have your fingerprints resubmitted.

AHHHH, I use to teach the 20hr security class for a larger security firm and "my response" was what I was told by the administration of the agency. My students would ask why it had been a month to sometimes several months for thier PERC to arrive....mystery solved!
Thanks Bill:)

Michael Atkinson -

06-13-2006, 09:36 PM

I'm have completed course work for a private investigator and have recieved my diploma. I currently work in a county jail as

Michael Atkinson -

06-13-2006, 09:48 PM

Mark Buda -

06-15-2006, 01:06 AM

You can go online to see if your state / federal background check has occurred. Based upon my experience, once the agency sees your state check has passed, they can use you even before you get your PERF card. The key is the state check has passed.

I have seen PERC cards go through very quickly and I also know one guy whose federal check was not compete after 1 years.

mark

Mark Buda -

06-15-2006, 10:45 AM

For those who want to check the PERC status of someone, you can go to https://www.idfpr.com/dpr/licenselookup/default.asp

You need to choose PERC - Permanent Employee Registration, last name, first letter (optional). The last name can be a subset of the whole name to allow a wider search, if you so choose.

The information returned is the following:

Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?

mark

Carrie Medina

06-15-2006, 07:13 PM

Hi Judy!
Thanks for the info; very informative :D

The following is a quote from the Illinois statute for Exemptions to licensing:

NO LICENSE NEEDED (EXEMPTIONS):

OTHER LINKS:

www.dpr.state.il.us/proflist.asp

www.dpr.state.il.us/WHO/dtct.asp

PI Licensing Law for Illinois (http://www.legis.state.il.us/ilcs/ch225/ch225act446.htm)
PS: See the Educational Forum too. There's a book there that has all the states regs.

Jonathan Persky

06-16-2006, 02:23 AM

HI, this is a quote that was posted on another forum/thread by an investigatgor familiar with licensing exemption Laws for this state. See it as you would :) Enjoy !

PI LICENSING: Illinois

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is a quote from the Illinois statute for Exemptions to licensing:

NO LICENSE NEEDED (EXEMPTIONS):
Quote:
Sec. 30. Exemptions to licensing:
(a) This Act does not apply to:
A person engaged exclusively and employed by a person,
firm, association, or corporation in the business of transporting
persons or property in interstate commerce and making an
investigation related to the business of that employer.

Any person, watchman, or guard employed exclusively and
regularly by one employer in connection with the affairs of that
employer only and there exists an employer/employee relationship.

A person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining
and furnishing information as to the financial rating or credit
worthiness of persons;

A person who provides consumer reports in connection with
Credit transactions involving the consumer on whom
the information is to be furnished and involving the extensions
of credit to the consumer.

A person who provides Information for employment purposes.

A person who provides Information for the underwriting of insurance involving the consumer.

An attorney-at-law licensed to practice in Illinois while
engaging in the practice of law.

An officer or employee of the United States, this State, or any
political subdivision of either while the officer or employee is engaged
in the performance of his or her official duties within the course and
scope of his or her employment with the United States, this State, or
any political subdivision of either.

Insurance adjusters legally employed or under contract as
adjusters and who engage in no other investigative activities other
than those directly connected with adjustment of claims against an
insurance company or self-insured by which they are employed or with
which they have a contract.

Any law enforcement officer, as defined in the Illinois
Police Training Act, who has successfully completed the requirements
of basic law enforcement and firearms training as prescribed by the
Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, employed by an
employer in connection with the affairs of that employer, provided
he or she is exclusively employed by the employer during the hours
or times he or she is scheduled to work for that employer, and there
exists an employer and employee relationship.

A person who sells burglar alarm systems and does not
install, monitor, maintain, alter, repair, service, or respond to
burglar alarm systems at protected premises or premises to be
protected, provided:
(i) The burglar alarm systems are approved either by
Underwriters Laboratories or another authoritative source
recognized by the Department and are identified by a
federally registered trademark.
(ii) The owner of the trademark has expressly
authorized the person to sell the trademark owner's
products, and the person provides proof of this
authorization upon the request of the Department.
(iii) The owner of the trademark maintains, and
provides upon the Department's request, a certificate
evidencing insurance for bodily injury or property damage
arising from faulty or defective products in an amount not
less than $1,000,000 combined single limit; provided that
the policy of insurance need not relate exclusively to
burglar alarm systems.

A person who sells, installs, maintains, or repairs
automobile alarm systems.

A person who provides tracing and compiling lineage or ancestry.

A person who provides servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding automotive
locks by automotive service dealers, as long as they do not hold
themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

A person who provides opening a lock in an emergency situation, as long as they do not hold
themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

A person who provides duplicating keys, from installing, servicing, repairing, rebuilding,
reprogramming, or maintaining electronic garage door devices or from
selling locks or similar security accessories not prohibited from
sale by the State of Illinois, as long as they do not hold
themselves out to the public as locksmiths.

A person who provides the installation or removal of complete locks or locking
devices by members of the building trades when doing so in the
course of residential or commercial new construction or remodeling,
as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as
locksmiths.

A person who provides towing services, repossessors, or auto
clubs from opening automotive locks in the normal course of their
duties, as long as they do not hold themselves out to the public as
locksmiths. Additionally, this Act shall not prohibit employees of
towing services from opening motor vehicle locks to enable a vehicle
to be moved without towing, provided that the towing service does
not hold itself out to the public, by yellow page advertisement,
through a sign at the facilities of the towing service, or by any
other advertisement, as a locksmith.

A person who provides the practice of locksmithing by students in the course of
study in programs approved by the Department, provided that the
students do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.
(G) Servicing, installing, repairing, or rebuilding locks by a
lock manufacturer or anyone employed by a lock manufacturer, as long
as they do not hold themselves out to the public as locksmiths.
(H) The provision of any of the products or services in the
practice of locksmithing as identified in Section 5 of this Act by a
business licensed by the State of Illinois as a private alarm
contractor or private alarm contractor agency, as long as the
principal purpose of the services provided to a customer is not the
practice of locksmithing and the business does not hold itself out
to the public as a locksmith agency.
(I) Any maintenance employee of a property management company
at a multi-family residential building from servicing, installing,
repairing, or opening locks for tenants as long as the maintenance
employee does not hold himself or herself out to the public as a
locksmith.

A person who provides fire protection engineering, including the design, testing, and
inspection of fire protection systems.

A person who provides professional engineering as defined in the
Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989.
(L) The practice of structural engineering as defined in the
Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989.
(M) The practice of architecture as defined in the Illinois
Architecture Practice Act of 1989.

A person who provides services under the Illinois Public Accounting Act if performed in the course of their
professional practice.

A person who provides any service that this Act does not prohibit as regulated in this State under any other Act from engaging in the practice for which they are licensed, provided that they do not represent themselves by any title prohibited by this Act.
(Source: P.A. 89-366, eff. 1-1-96; 90-436, eff. 1-1-98; 90-633, eff.
7-24-98; 91-91, eff. 1-1-00.)

OTHER LINKS:

Robert Donovan

06-24-2006, 11:31 AM

correctional officer where I do on a daily basis run warrants on people arrested,fingerprinted them and have taken their photographs and have sent this information to the FBI. I also run criminal histories for the states attorney to help in relaying important infomation for court appearances.Law enforcement is such an exciting career to be in . I wish to continue this by working with an agency and becoming a private Investigator

thank you

Michael, I see you posted your Oath & Code of Ethics - but you forgot to author your personal introduction (which we need).

Click on the following link for instructions:
http://ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5008

All my best,

Robert

Craig W Miller -

07-12-2006, 07:21 PM

There are numerous exemptions. The hardest requirement that IL has is the time in the field under an agency. It's a great requirement but finding an agency to take you under their wing is a different story.

Michael Atkinson -

07-12-2006, 08:57 PM

I am on the understanding that to be able to get licensed in the state of Illinois that an individual must work under a licensed investigator or work in some form of law enforcement for a period of at least 3 years before being able to apply and get a license to work as a Private Investigator in the state of Illinois.I am currently working in a county jail as a guard and perform alot of duties which require me to run back ground checks,run criminal histories, search for warrants and to also cancel warrants when a suspect is arrested,I also recieve messages from other counties and states via leads and respond to those messages sent .so I believev I am gaining alot of information and skill that is or will be required of me :)

Michael Atkinson -

07-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Craig W Miller -

07-12-2006, 09:06 PM

You are gaining a TON of valuable skills that you can apply later in the field. :)

Craig W Miller -

07-12-2006, 09:15 PM

what are some ideas as to how to get private investigator companies to help those who wish to enter this exciting field of law enforcement as I consider it . I am willing to except what ever it takes for this is what I want to do and have also wanted to do. thank you

Michael Atkinson

Well, IPIU is a great start. Read the forums. There are several ideas, information, and helpful tips form all levels of investigators. From beginner all the way up to "down right salty dogs" As far as labelling PI work as a form of "law enforcement" some areas could loosely far under that I guess. There are so many paths that I an investigator can travel, find the one or ones that fit you best and run with the ball. For starters, I dont know what level that you are at, but as you get to level 4, look at the IPIU assignments areas. Wonderful operatunity around every corner in here.

Craig W Miller -

07-12-2006, 09:31 PM

what are some ideas as to how to get private investigator companies to help those who wish to enter this exciting field of law enforcement as I consider it . I am willing to except what ever it takes for this is what I want to do and have also wanted to do. thank you

Michael Atkinson

Well, IPIU is a great start. Read the forums. There are several ideas, information, and helpful tips form all levels of investigators. From beginner all the way up to "down right salty dogs" As far as labelling PI work as a form of "law enforcement" some areas could loosely far under that I guess. There are so many paths that an investigator can travel, find the one or ones that fit you best and run with the ball. For starters, I dont know what level that you are at, but as you get to level 4, look at the IPIU assignments areas. Wonderful opertunity around every corner in here.

Roman Segal

12-01-2006, 09:44 PM

What is a PERC Card? Where do you get such a card?

Michael Newman

12-02-2006, 12:41 PM

What is a PERC Card? Where do you get such a card?
Roman,

Go here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9468

Roman Segal

12-02-2006, 01:34 PM

Thanks a million Mr Newman :)

Legal Affairs

12-06-2006, 03:23 PM

Note:

Many of the most recent comments posted to this topic have been moved to another forum to allow a more detailed discussion. I will post a link here when the topic has been approved after a legal review.

In the meantime, please note that all guest members of this forum, and union members of IPIU, are under the same signed Oath, Code of Ethics, Mission Statement, and Forum Rules when your original online application was submitted. To knowingly violate your Oath & Code of Ethics places your account in jeopardy.

Here is a copy of the Oath & Code of Ethics that all have signed and agreed to:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914

If anyone feels they can no longer live up to their signed Oath & Code of Ethics, please click on the following link and request that your account and access be closed:

http://www.ipiu.org/forums/sendmessage.php

Secondly, all members are required to use the phrase "In my own personal opinion" when their comment is not factual or their comment is out-of-context, especially when posting only partial statutes.

(More on this later when I post the link to the other topic)

Ann Marie Ryan
Legal Affairs - IPIU

Technical Support

12-08-2006, 03:40 PM

I was notified that a forum member, who only signed up recently as a guest using his PI License and other identification, posted items in this topic that were both misleading and in violation of his signed Oath, Code of Ethics, and Forum Rules (http://ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914). For those of you who remember his comments and his name, there is no need to ever mention this person again in a public forum. His comments have been moved and edited to a private forum in full compliance of his signed acceptance agreement.

May I remind all guest members of your signed and posted agreement (and/or the online application agreement) you initially executed is and will remain a lawful document which dictates your limited rights and our expanded rights in reference to your posting privileges. The agreement permits us to edit any and all comments of any authored post to insure it is in compliance of the Oath, Code of Ethics, Forum Rules, as well as all federal and local statutes and guidelines. If an edit occurs, then as a courtesy to the original author we will place a notation within the comment that the post was edited so as to notify other members that portions have been modified so as to comply with the signed member's agreement.

This web forum is not a public free-for-all.

This web forum is not a haven for those who wish to mislead or misrepresent their true intentions.

This web forum is not censor-free.

This web forum is not under any lawful obligation to provide uncensored free speech on any item.

This web forum is a privately owned site.

This web forum requires an application for posting privileges.

This web forum is under no obligation to approve all applications.

This web forum is among sites which have the strictest forum rules (http://ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2914) in the world.

This web site requires real people to use their real names when applying for posting privileges.

This web forum enjoys one of the highest ratings for reflecting respect and professional conduct (see the Unsolicited Testimonial Forum (http://ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48))

However, there are other internet "news groups" and sites that will allow anyone to use any name to post anything about anyone. For those who have that need, we invite you to explore those opportunities elsewhere.

In retrospect, it may come as no surprise to anyone here if the guest forum member whose comments have been moved and edited may no longer choose to post here again because of the embarrassing remarks which led to a public correction and edit. After all, he posted those remarks under his real name and was corrected thereafter. That is the risk to those who post first without making sure their remarks are within the rules set forth in their signed agreement.

(As private investigators, our mission is to make an accurate observation and provide an accurate factual report - without a preconceived personal agenda which may compromise both our reputation and integrity)

On the other hand, we all make mistakes in our lives. But it's what we do about our mistakes that makes all of the difference. Typically, when anyone here mistakenly posts an inappropriate comment - they simply apologize for the remark and move on. But some people can never apologize for anything. And some people will never be "corrected" in public, no matter how wrong or how insignificant their comments may have been that caused the correction.

We also must also recognize that even though we have faithfully served over 80,000 worldwide, still - this forum and its sponsors are certainly not for everyone.

Cheers,

Chris Shelton -

02-04-2008, 09:25 AM

Hey guys,

I'm hoping this thread will benefit me as well as others.

I hold a Private Investigators license in the state of Utah. It has been a year and a half so far. I am trying to get t it endorsed in Illinois and IDPR (Illinois Licensing board) is not being helpful.

I have been told I have 2 options:

Take a licensing test when it becomes available, or
Pay 500 hundred dollars for an endorsement.

"Pay 500 hundred dollars for an endorsement."
This seemed like the best idea right? Ha...I was told that it did not guarantee that it would be endorsed.

I asked what did it depend on and I was told that it depended on:
The review board...the people that approve license.

I asked what governed their decision again the IDPR representative informed me they did not know. There are a list of things that they look for.

Here it is straight off the website. Altered a little for easier reading.

Supporting Documents must be completed by the jurisdictions of licensure where you have been practicing. You are authorized to photocopy the form if necessary. You must direct the licensing agency/board(s) to return completed form CT directly to you.

Supporting Documents (form ED) must be completed, if applicable, by a school official and have school seal affixed. If school has no seal, Supporting Document ED must be notarized.

Supporting Documents (VE-DET or VE-DSC) must be completed to show proof of qualified professional work experience. These documents will be reviewed to evaluate your professional work experience if the licensure requirements of the state(s) from which you are seeking endorsement are not equivalent to the endorsement requirements of the State of Illinois.

An applicant for licensure MUST submit proof of at least $1,000,000 of liability insurance. This proof must be submitted on Supporting Document DE-INS and may be submitted AFTER notification that all other requirements for licensure have been satisfied.

Security clearance must be obtained before the license is issued. See the back of the reference sheet for instructions on this process.

Application fee payment is indicated on the REFERENCE SHEET (CHART I). Application fee payment must be in the form of a check or money order made payable to Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.
This has been changed numerous times so far and these rules are new.

Has anybody been through this process or taken the test base on having a license?

ANY kind of help would be highly appreciated. Obviously I would prefer an endorsement but will take a test if that is my only option.

(For Utah you don't take a test you have to have so many hours of experience.)

PLEASE HELP. Thank for any help guys.

Robert Donovan

03-18-2008, 06:37 PM

Has anybody been through this process or taken the test base on having a license?

ANY kind of help would be highly appreciated. Obviously I would prefer an endorsement but will take a test if that is my only option.

PLEASE HELP. Thank for any help guys.Because you are a union member with Level 4 access, go to the following forum for personal help:

Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License! (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
Then follow the Instructions Topic posted.

Chris Shelton -

03-18-2008, 08:05 PM

Rebecca Sanders

03-19-2008, 10:02 AM

Hey guys can any one help me. I am currently trying make since of my previous work history so I can sit for the P.I. test in Illinois. I have 1 year at a PI company and 2 years at a fugitive recovery company doing background checks, skip tracing and internal investigations. While this be sufficient according to those rules above to submit as experience? ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
Chris, did you read what Robert gave you for instructions in the earlier post?

Here is a copy:

Because you are a union member with Level 4 access, go to the following forum for personal help:

Obtaining Your Private Investigator License or Agency License! (http://www.ipiu.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
Then follow the Instructions Topic posted.

(This licensing topic is not the place for personal help.)

Johannes Laun

04-04-2008, 11:24 AM

I am looking into getting my PI license in IL and wanted to know if anyone can clairify what I am reading the the rules.

I am a fire investigator (CFEI) and a professional engineer(IL and other states). What I understand is that I need a PI license to provide fire investigation skills to the public.

Even though I have been working for ~10+ years in this field for other employers, I only have my PERC card for 1 year. I also have my MBA, and other degrees.

Is having an MBA along with 1 year of PERC card sufficient to meet the requirements to take the exam? I am basing this from the text in the rules where:
"An applicant who has a baccalaureate degree, or higher, in law enforcement or a related field or a business degree from an accredited college or university shall be given credit for 2 of the 3 years of the required experience."
Does anyone know?
Thanks.
Johannes Laun

Marcus Melnick

04-22-2008, 04:56 PM

Hello, everyone! I am Marcus, and new here (still working on my profile). I am thoroughly confused about licensure. Four investors and I are looking at becoming a private security contractor in Illinois, to deliver the 40 hour initial training. I know that I have to take an exam, but I cannot find a study guide, topics that will be on the test, or anything I should review before the test.

I might be able to pass without studying, as I have a 20 year career in Public Safety, Chief Fire Officer Designation, Master's Degree in Criminal Justice, and am a graduate of Northwestern University's School of Police Staff and Command. Can anyone give me some direction on what to study?

Thanking you in advance for past favors....Marcus

Charles January

05-11-2010, 10:06 AM

Hi stephen I'm intrested in moving to ga and lets chat

Richard Zimmermann

03-11-2011, 12:46 AM

TO ALL CONCERNED: If You are a licensed Private Investigator(Detective) Locksmith,Security Contractor, You "DO NOT NEED " a P.E.R.C/ card in the State of Illinois.

Phillip Flores

04-16-2012, 12:52 AM

You need to take a test in Illinois for Private Detective. I believe it cost $250 for the test and there are three test per year. Scheduled dates in a classroom.

Phillip Flores

04-16-2012, 12:55 AM

Richard you may contact me a Phillip.flores@pi-agency.us or phillip@locksmithonduty24-7.com