3rd party certification

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

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I have not seen this question asked, or I have over looked it.

At what point does your time start to accumilate for States who require time in training?

Example: Only on cases you accualy spend time on.

From the time you sign your COE (actively logged in on the forum)

I do recall reading on the forum that IPIU can give you a letter for this when applying to your State for your class C license when that time comes.

Thank You
Jody W. Neubert

:confused:

[David Copeland]

The answer is contained only in the minds of the licensing board of a particular board.

Some boards accept "experience", whether on the payroll or not. Other boards require payroll time. Some boards overide the rules when 3rd party certification of non payroll time (such as self employment for 2-3 years in an investigative manner) is okay.

For now, gain all of the experience you need and review your progress in 24 months.

[David Copeland]

Note:

Request an "owner's" package for establishing your own private investigator agency in your state. Nearly all states waive all experience requirements for "owners" because you can hire (on an as needed basis) a licensed PI to take responsibility for the legal issues of the agency, while you (the owner) can run the business, work the assignments with your PI, and gain the experience. :)

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

David Copeland,

Thank you for your timely response. I appreciate all the valuable info I recieve from IPIU and it's members.

The laws can be a bit confusing for those of us starting out.

Thank You
Jody W. Neubert:)

[William R. Larson -]

Jody -

I think the law can (and is) a bit confusing for even those that understand it!

WRL

[James Alexander Jr]

I have a ?, where would a person request a "owners" package for establishing there own PI agency ?

[Wayne Phillips]

I got mine from my states DOL. They sent me all of the laws concerning having my own agency, all the forms I would need, and a list of the costs.

Wayne Phillips

[James Alexander Jr]

Thanks for the info Wayne. I'll have to see if I can get mine form my states DOL also.

[Hsiaoling McDonald -]

Okay, I know this is probably the stupidist question ever asked but what is DOL and where do I go to see if I can order or get one? What does it do? You know the whole nine yards question. :confused: :p

[Wayne Phillips]

No question is stupid. DOL is the Dept of Licensing. If you call your state capitol and ask for the dept of Licensing they should be able to answer all of your questions. If you let me know your state I will try to find out for you but I think you should still call them directly. If you cannot find their number let me know and I'll look it up.

Wayne Phillips

[Hsiaoling McDonald -]

I really live on the border of South Carolina and North Carolina. I am resident of SC, but I have noticed that NC may have more clientele. :B

[Wayne Phillips]

Try e-mailing here

NC
Business Licenses - Secretary of State's Office (800) 228-8443
ask them if they have the number to the SC Business Linense Office

SC
webmgr@scs.state.sc.us



Also here is a link to your state laws and the section I believe contains what you are looking for. Please contact your state to confirm.

http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t40c018.htm
SECTION 40-18-70.

I couldn't find the laws for NC fast enough so if that phone number for NC does not work then ask me again and I'll try harder to find it.


Wayne Phillips

[Hsiaoling McDonald -]

Wayne,
I am sincerely grateful for the information you have provided me. I will definetly check all them out.

Thank you again.:)

[Larry Sanders--]

Originally posted by David Copeland
Note:

Request an "owner's" package for establishing your own private investigator agency in your state. Nearly all states waive all experience requirements for "owners" because you can hire (on an as needed basis) a licensed PI to take responsibility for the legal issues of the agency, while you (the owner) can run the business, work the assignments with your PI, and gain the experience. :)

David,

Do you request this from Agent Relations?

[Technical Support]

Originally posted by Larry Sanders
David,

Do you request this from Agent Relations?
No.

The agency owner's licensing application comes from the same state department that licenses private investigators who work for licensed agencies (owners). Just ask for the application for an "agency", including any other applications and instructions for "owners" that are not licensed or do not have the required experience.

[Jim Ley--]

Jody,

To answer your question about the accumulation of time with a Florida private investigation agency, the time would begin when the sponsoring investigator notifies the Florida Department Of State, Division Of Licensing that it has hired you as an intern. The sponsoring investigator would sign your application packet accepting responsibility for you. You would submit your application to the DOL and be immediately issued a class "CC" (intern) license. Your sponsor would then begin tracking your investigative hours and submit a bi-annual report to the DOL updating them on the work you've completed. In Florida you are required to have two years of investigative experience before being issued a class "C" (Fully Licensed PI) license. There are other requirements for becoming a PI, as well as exemptions (such as credit for college, etc.) These items can be found in Florida statutes chapter 493, which is the chapter that governs the private investigation profession in Florida.

There are approximately eleven thousand licensed private investigators in the state of Florida working for approximately 2000 agencies. Most of these agencies are one or two man shows. Half of the agencies in Florida earn less than $100 per week because of the state's high retirement rate (People retire in other states and come to Florida. The hang up a shingle as a private investigator because the have the hours to do so, but don't actively pursue cases). Many of the others operate out of small offices or homes making it difficult to adequately supervise employees. This makes it difficult for new investigators without the required experience to break into the market. Because of this, it becomes extremely important for the new investigator to hone his skills and gain as much knowledge as he can before knocking on a door. While there are some investigators who want their trainees to have zero experience, the professional investigator knows that sending an unskilled person on an assignment is an invitation for disaster. On top of that, the small agency can't often afford a rigorous training schedule to bring you up to speed. His position will be "Why should I pay you to learn when I can't make any money off you while I'm teaching you?"

Therein lies the big hurdle. . . It's all about money. The only reason someone hires an employee is to be able to make money off of them. If the small agency owner can't make money off you why hire you, right? So here's what you do.

Read everything you can about investigations. Knowledge is power. Those investigators who only want zero experience trainees want them because they don't have any bad habits to break. Reading won't introduce bad habits because those habits won't form until it becomes a repetitive motion. You will be gaining intelligence, not habits. But what to read. . . Hmmm, that is a tough one. It really depends on what type of investigations you want to do. There are so many fields to go into, but you'll probably get your start in surveillance. Read about surveillance. You can't go wrong there. What else? Read Chapter 493 of the Florida statutes. Learn it! Know it! Just because you're an intern (trainee) doesn't exempt you from the rules. The DOL will pull your license just as fast as they pull your sponsor's. If you know the rules that govern your profession you'll be a step ahead of a lot of other investigators. I can't stress that enough. What else can you do?

Purchase good surveillance equipment. Nothing a sponsor likes more than an investigator with his own equipment. . . except one that knows how to use it. Get a good video camera and a good still camera. You don't have to spend a million dollars to get one. There are a lot of used video cameras in the paper, and I like them better than the new ones with the big, fold out LCD screen. Why? Because the LCD screen emits a lot of light and its a battery hog. Get a good Nikon or Canon camera with a 50 mm lens. You can add on lenses later when you need it. Find one with a sturdy base, not this lightweight plastic ****. It will break in the field. Learn how to use it, both manually and automatically. Here's good advice. Take a college photography course. They'll teach you a lot about taking photographs. If you have your own camera equipment and know how to use it you'll be a step above most other investigative trainees. What else?

Practice your surveillance. Here's a question for you. Can a licensed private investigator (in Florida) be charged with stalking? Absolutely! The elements of the offense of stalking are willfully, repeatedly and maliciously following someone. Obviously private investigators willfully follow someone. We often do it repeatedly. The key is that we do it without malice. But what if you're following someone and they know that your there? What if you continue to follow them after they know you're there? That could be construed as stalking and you could be arrested. That would not be a good day for you. The trick is to be aware of what you're doing and look for signs. Are they driving 25 MPH on the interstate? Are they making lots of turns for no reason? Learn these signs. . . learn how to conduct surveillance. Practice. Go out and practice following someone. Maintain your distance. If they notice you there break off immediately. You're not there to harass them and there are plenty of people to practice on. How much distance do you have to maintain? Can you and your subject make that stoplight? You'll be amazed at how tough it is to maintain a good surveillance. Practice in cities and rural areas. Practice on main streets and residential areas. Practice in cars and on foot. Practice! Practice! Practice! Learn this and you'll be a step above most other investigative trainees. What else?

Purchase a good word processing program and learn how to use it. Figure out where the spell checking button is and press it regularly. Read your reports before sending them to your sponsor. Does it sound right? Fix it up if it needs it. There is nothing I hate more than having to rewrite someone elses report because they can't put a sentence together. Remember, we are a service industry. The only thing we sell is that report. If my client is paying $5,000 for a few sheets of paper it had better be the best 0000 looking sheets of paper they've ever seen. You can't go wrong with a professional letterhead sporting a professionally designed logo. . . but I digress. Anyway, learn how to write a good basic report (who, what, where, why, when and how) and you'll make your boss a happy person. It doesn't have to be a minute-by-minute accounting of your day, but it should contain all the facts. Remember the word AORTA. Always Objective, Relevant, Thorough and Accurate - AORTA. Learn that and practice it and you'll be a step above most other investigative trainees.

So that's my advice to getting in with a Florida agency. Read and understand the laws that govern you, as well as learning about the investigative profession. Purchase and learn to use good quality camera equipment, practice your surveillance, and learn to write a good report. Man, your sponsor will think he's died and gone to heaven. But wait, you still need a sponsor, don't you? Okay, here's my last piece of advice.

Join your state's professional private investigators association and attend the local meetings and conferences. In Florida, the private investigation profession is represented by FALI, the Florida Association of Licensed Investigators. That will put you in touch with the people who own the agencies. . . the people who are professional investigators as opposed to the fly-by-night investigator who only wants to exploit you and leave you holding the bag. . . the people who hire people. Call me and I'll put you in touch with them. Good luck and hang in there. If you really want it, it will happen.

Take Care,

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

Jim,

Thank you so much for the valuable information. I will be getting in touch with you either by phone,or by email.

Thank You!!!!:)

[Deborah Siehl -]

Hi Jim and Jody,

I am glad I came up on this forum, I emailed FALI about 2 weeks ago. I inquired about the membership and I have not heard a word from them. Can you give me any advice?

Thanks so much,

Deborah Siehl

PS one of my instructors is a member, I thought of emailing her and asking for help. This was 7 years ago, she mostlikely wouldn't remember me. I remember her and the class she taught.

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

Deborah;

If you have not heard back from FALI by the end of the week try emailing them again. They where doing an upgrade to the web site and your email may not have gotten to them.

If you still do not get a reply, email me privately and I will help put you in contact with them.

Just ask Admin for my email address as I am giving them the okay to release it to you.



Take Care :)

[Deborah Siehl -]

Hi Jody,

Thanks for the info. I will try again, and be in touch here if I get response. Otherwise, I will do as you suggested.

Thanks again,

Deborah

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

Your welcome Deborah, glad to help :)

[Deborah Siehl -]

Hi Jody,

I wanted to let you know that I email FALI today and received a response within hours. A gentleman by the name of Tony Bonacum responded. I was quite flattered that he stated "You would be an asset" meaning me. I did include that I was a member of IPIU. Something that struck me funny, he gave me the info for the area I need, I never said where I was from in Florida. I guess when you are dealing with investigators, this is expected.
Thanks so much for your help.

Deborah

[Mr. Jody W. Neubert]

Deborah;

I am glad you got a responce. Tony is a very nice man and he can be alot of help. I have talked with him on the phone in the past with questions I have had and he had all the answer's.

If I can be of any help to you concerning FALI let me know.

Yes!! as an Investigator we have way's of finding the info that we need.


Good luck to you

:)

[Christopher M. Rogers]

I would assume that since most assignments are carried out on behalf of local agencies that hours worked would/could be applied to state licensing requirements... Or in the case of MA (where I reside) towards the accretion of 3 years work experience.

Is this assumption correct?

Are there special situations (in anyone's experience) where this would not be the case?

Best,
- Christopher

[Christopher M. Rogers]

hmm... also came across this in another thread (and on a somewhat different subject) :

David Copeland wrote -
"IPIU can certify your earned hours for your future application to the state."

What does this mean exactly (aside from the obvious)? Do ALL assignment hours need to be certified by IPIU in order to be applied to state requirements?

Best,
- Christopher

[Deborah W]

Originally posted by Christopher M. Rogers


What does this mean exactly (aside from the obvious)? Do ALL assignment hours need to be certified by IPIU in order to be applied to state requirements?

Best,
- Christopher

No, they do not. We have several PIs who have worked on assignments, both inside and outside of IPIU. You can log in your hours to both the agency and this union. By doing this, you will earn hours towards your state requirements as well as become eligible for future assignments through IPIU.

Be sure to check your state licensing requirements to learn what types of experience will count towards earning your license. Check out our Licensing Laws forum to see what exemptions are available for your state.

[Amanda R Campbell -]

This is a good question. It is nice to know that we will be logging hours with our states and IPIU at the same time. Every little bit helps!

[Carmen Acai]

Originally posted by Christopher M. Rogers
I would assume that since most assignments are carried out on behalf of local agencies that hours worked would/could be applied to state licensing requirements... Or in the case of MA (where I reside) towards the accretion of 3 years work experience.

Is this assumption correct?

Are there special situations (in anyone's experience) where this would not be the case?

Best,
- Christopher Christopher,

I merged your question to this existing topic. You might want to search it from the first page, as well as the entire Licensing Laws Forum. Happy Holidays!!! :)

[Shannon Marble]

In Tn the cost is bad enought to start working to get a PI Liscense but it is well over a thousand dollars to start the paperwork on an agency of your own. It is frustrating trying to decide which direction to go.

[Keri L Hayes]

I'm still uncertain how I obtain a 3rd Party Certification. I am applying for my "C" license in FL and have a combination of experience, education and training. I would like to also send in a certificate from IPIU noting the experience and training I have received here, but I'm unsure how to do it? Do I send an email to USA@IPIU or do contact someone in particular?