Michael Jackson (Update)

[Vernon Jackson]

The following article just appeared on CNN News. Is Michael Jackson going to get off the hook? Or is he going to get what he deserves?

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Authorities raided the home of Michael Jackson's personal assistant September 15, a newly released court document reveals.

The edited document shows that Jackson's defense team filed an "emergency application" with the court seeking to have all the items seized in the raid by Santa Barbara County Sheriff investigators placed under seal.

Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Rodney S. Melville granted the defense team's request.

It was the second raid by prosecutors that the defense has protested. The raid indicated that investigators apparently remain active in their hunt for evidence in the Jackson child-molestation case.

The application to place the seized items under seal was filed with the court September 16 and was one of the matters heard by Melville during a defense-only hearing the next day.

In the document, Jackson defense attorney Robert Sanger described the pop star's assistant as being someone who "maintains Mr. Jackson's personal papers and files."

Sanger also wrote that among the items taken was "a fax sent on behalf of the client to his lawyer regarding possible trial witnesses" and three folders labeled "Mesereau." One of Jackson's lawyers is Tom Mesereau.

The defense argues that the prosecution might have violated the attorney-client privilege. It is not the first time the Jackson defense team has leveled such an allegation. The issue was heavily contested during recent evidentiary hearings.

The defense team has argued that all items seized in a raid last November at the office of private investigator Brad Miller should be suppressed because they were protected by attorney-client privilege.

Miller had been hired by Mark Geragos, a former Jackson attorney.

A written ruling from Melville addressing the legality and admissibility of the evidence taken during the Miller raid is expected before month's end.

"Law enforcement and the district attorney continue to attempt to use search warrants, after a case has been filed, and after a client has retained counsel, despite being aware that they run the risk of invading the defense camp," Sanger wrote in the emergency application.

Jackson's defense team asked that appropriate procedures be implemented to determine if the items seized are "covered by privilege and to fashion appropriate remedies."

In other matters, the court also released a notice of intent by Melville that he plans to unseal a request by Jackson to make a statement on the television movie "Man in the Mirror."

Although the judge had previously sealed the document, he changed his mind, indicating that "upon further consideration" he has decided Jackson's request should be released.

Pending no objection, the document will be placed in the public file September 27.

The next court hearing in the Jackson case is set for October 14.

Jackson, 46, faces multiple counts of child molestation, including committing a lewd act upon a boy and conspiring to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion. He has pleaded not guilty.

The trial is set to start in January.

[Bozica N Newell]

I believe he is guilty but, also who in there right frame of mind would hang there child out the window amongst continuously have children present at his home?! Makes you wonder how money seems to help him get out of these circumstances. He truely tries to hide behind a mask but this time it will be revealed. I have two little ones of my own and I feel for the children and the parents that have to go through this ordeal with this plastic man. I hope they lock his a$% up he is mentally screwd up. But that is my opinion.

[Bozica N Newell]

I believe he is guilty but, also who in there right frame of mind would hang there child out the window amongst continuously have children present at his home?! Makes you wonder how money seems to help him get out of these circumstances. He truely tries to hide behind a mask but this time it will be revealed. I have two little ones of my own and I feel for the children and the parents that have to go through this ordeal with this plastic man. I hope they lock his a$% up he is mentally screwd up. But that is my opinion.What you do onto others will someday be done to you!

[Jimmy Jordan]

In my opinion, Michael Jackson is strange, very strange. But, who am I to judge. I believe he is a child at heart, not a child molester. This could be just another frivolous accusation, the kind that keeps driving our insurance rates up. If he's guilty he should be punished, but I still believe in "Innocent until proven guilty".

[Douglas Silvia-]

Michael Jackson is a classic example of a pedophile. Private room, porn, never female children, always male. This guy needs to go to prison forever, but the sad part about it is he has ruined the lives of many children. The chance of justice beening served here is 50 50. All it takes is one Jackson fan on the jury and know matter the evidence this criminal will walk and will do it again.

[Ulysses Washington]

Michael Jackson is about sick as it gets. I believe the media created this monster and it will have to be the media to destroy him. Pedophile usually have a great images priest, movie stars etc. But can't let them use these shields to hide dimented sexual desires.

[Jan Conklin]

I, too, think Jackson never matured or grew up, and his mind is such a mish-mash of conflicting emotions that he doesn't even KNOW how normal people act. He thinks that he's a child just playing with other children [altho how he aligns that with the ideal of grownups making babies would be interesting to hear] and I think that's how he's able to claim innocence. In his own head, he is innocent and other people just don't understand.

I think it's a great tragedy that he has reproduced himself; isn't it 3 times now? Those poor kids haven't got a snowball's chance at normalcy. I believe Jackson's upbringing created the monster he is, before Jacko carried it to these extremes, and that should be fair warning for other stage- and star-struck parents.

I got an email joke saying court had to be postponed because Jacko had symptoms of severe cold or flu - but nobody could tell for sure because he has no nose to check. (!)

Of course this is costing the taxpayers a ton of money, during a time when taxes are a severe burden to the common people and federal taxcuts are closing down court services nationwide. All I can say for sure is I'm glad I'm not that judge. You couldn't pay me enough ...

/Jan

[Douglas Silvia-]

I don't think those children are his. All three blonde and blue eyes, when you bleach your skin it does not effect your genes. I have not seen many mixed race children that do not show any evidence of both races. Maybe it is possible for one, but all three. Yes, even so those poor children have a long hard life ahead of them. The courts should remove them from the entire family. It is a tragedy.

[Cheyenne Wolf]

In joke of the day there is an interesting picture titled see what jackson is wearing to court. In the picture his nose is missing and several prostectics are in front of him to choose from. A little Mr Potato head but funny. This guy is seriously disturbed :confused:

[Kenneth Owens -]

I think Jackson is guilty. the guy is obviously a whacko. I read in a magazine that two things could destroy him on trial. Jackson and the boy's finger prints were find together on a porno magazine. The other is that children who have been to neverland said that he put wine in soda cans and gave it to them and called it Jesus Juice. If he walks away from this I will be disapointed in our justice system. I'm tired of celebrities getting away with things just because they are famous or rich. If it would have been one of us who did what he did we would have already been behind bars. I hope he goes to prison.

[Leah Riley]

Well, first...those kids he claimed to have fathered are probably not his. I suppose it could be possible but highly unlikely. I mean look at them. Platinum blonde hair? Very fair skinned?

Secondly, I do understand about missing out on a childhood. If I had the money I might construct a water park, not an amusement park like Neverland, in my back yard. I prefer water parks. I might buy some exotic animals as well. I might even set up a zoo like he did. And yes, if I decided to build a park, I'd definitely open up my theme park to underpriviledged children and other disadvantaged individuals among others. I might even invite some of the children and their parents back to my house. It is absolutely positive that I would help them out financially or whatever because I know what it is like to be poor. It is very likely that I might lavish them with gifts and vacations. I may possibly even have them and their parents, etc spend the night. I can genuinely understand all these things. However, I can definitely say that these children would NOT be in my bed at the end of the day. That is where Michael Jackson's dealings with children get weird.

I have two children, almost grown now, and when we have had kids spend the night they go to my children's bedrooms or they sleep in the living room.

I can even see where Michael Jackson would sleep with his own children but not with someone else's. Everyone has had their kids crawl in to bed with them from time to time I am sure. I slept with my mother in her bed until I was about 12 years old but this was due to lack of space. We were poor and had a tiny house. My sisters had 2 twin beds to share between the 3 of them. My mom and I slept in a full size bed. I can take an educated guess that Michael Jackson is not sleeping with these kids because he can't afford any more beds.

My husband and I slept with our youngest son when he was little for some time too. My husband hated it to be sure. But once again, this was our child and not someone else's. I found it easier to do the whole feeding thing when he was an infant if he was already in my bed. I didn't have to get up or even wake up really. Then, as a toddler he was a wild kid and got in to everything! If he woke up and I didn't hear him get up my whole house would have been destroyed. So, I found it easier to have him with me so I would know when he woke up. However, I am sure that Michael Jackson has an army of Nannies to mind his kids if they wake up and he doesn't hear them. Even so, there is nothing wrong with sleeping with your kids when they are little.

Once a child starts to develop, preteen, or young teens absolutely have to have their own place to sleep! Your kid or not, they have to sleep in their own bed.

Guilty or innocent, I think Mr. Jackson should seek counseling in either case. I don't feel sorry for him. I think he is really stupid to make a documentary and announce that he likes sleeping kids especially after his first run in with this kind of thing 10 years ago. You'd think he would be smarter than that. It is almost like he is retarded. I don't mean "retarded" as a put down. I mean it in the literal sense of the word. He comes off like a mentally retarded adult in those interviews.

[Samir Tulic]

Jacko is child molester!!

[Charlotte Brooks]

Where were the parents to those children that stayed the night with Michael Jackson? Did they think that he would just "baby sit" them? Man...I would never feel "right" leaving my kids with some man (famous or not) for the night. It is just "weird"!

I have seen those kids that are supposed to be his, and they are way to fair-skinned and blonde to be his. From what I understand, a lady had the kids for him, and she used a sperm donor.

I just find it weird too, that he has that huge amusement park at his mansion?? That way he could have all the over that he wants??! UGH!

I feel that Michael Jackson is guilty, but I also won't be suprised if he doesn't get locked away for life! He has all the money, and like one of the previous posters said, it seems like celebrities get off so easy, simply because of their fans, and their money!

It will be interesting to see what happens in the end!

[Douglas Silvia-]

Looks like Michael got a jury of his peers. I hope he gets a snetence long enough that he will never come out of prison. Everytime I think of what he has done I pray for those children whose lives he has destroyed. I have a young daughter and if someone were to do this to her there would be no place on this earth he could hide.

[Nate Clute]

I don't know if Michael is guilty or not, but just being "wierd" does not make him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If parents agree he is a whacko, why did they let their children spend the night in the first place? Neverland was established because Michael wanted to give children the childhood he never had because he was pressured by his father, at a young age, to seek stardom instead of being a child. If we all agree pedophilia is disgusting, why aren't there more convictions on the Catholic priests & bishops? As soon as an investigation is getting somewhere, the priests transfer to a new parish and the investigation gets dropped. Ask yourselves this, would people be as interested in Michael getting "busted" if he wasn't rich and famous (and a minority)? Why is it socially acceptable for men "of the cloth" to be pedophiles by contrast?

The punishment should fit the crime, not the suspect. I pray the truth will be made manifest, in all situations.

[Vance Schuening]

In my opinion, Michael Jackson is strange, very strange. But, who am I to judge. I believe he is a child at heart, not a child molester. This could be just another frivolous accusation, the kind that keeps driving our insurance rates up. If he's guilty he should be punished, but I still believe in "Innocent until proven guilty".

I totally agree with your statement. Vance

[Douglas Silvia-]

I don't think this is a witch hunt. This is the second time he has been charge, the first time he paid off the victim. This is not because rich and famous and a minority, which he is trying to hide. It is not socially acceptable for men of cloths to be pedophiles and neither is it for a rich minority singer to be a pedophile. People are coming forward and these priests are being convicted and going to prison. One of the most infamous was sent to prison and murdered in prison, he paid the altimate price for his crime. Children are coming forward in the Michael Jackson case, but of course the attorney will have Michael made to be the victim, not the true victims of his crimes, the little children 6 years old and under. I excuse that my father made me into a star and did not let me have a childhood does not justify his molesting those children. Anyone who molests children should be locked up for a long time. Protect the children, not the rich minority pedophile.

[Charlotte Brooks]

I don't think this is a witch hunt. This is the second time he has been charge, the first time he paid off the victim. This is not because rich and famous and a minority, which he is trying to hide. It is not socially acceptable for men of cloths to be pedophiles and neither is it for a rich minority singer to be a pedophile. People are coming forward and these priests are being convicted and going to prison. One of the most infamous was sent to prison and murdered in prison, he paid the altimate price for his crime. Children are coming forward in the Michael Jackson case, but of course the attorney will have Michael made to be the victim, not the true victims of his crimes, the little children 6 years old and under. I excuse that my father made me into a star and did not let me have a childhood does not justify his molesting those children. Anyone who molests children should be locked up for a long time. Protect the children, not the rich minority pedophile.

AMEN!!!

Why do some people think he is NOT guilty?? Why would these children make up stories? And how could they have found all that evidence if he is so innocent?

I believe in, "innocent until proven guilty", but with the evidence they found, he is guilty in my book!! ;)

[Douglas Silvia-]

Charoltte, you are so right, and what a great question, how do people think he is not guilty? Of course many will think he is being picked on because of his race, and status, which is totally incorrect. I no 6 & 6 years old children can be made to say things adults want the to say, but you can detect coaching. If a child refers to a private part by the anatomical name, i.e, 5 & 6 years olds (not trying to be vulgar) do not say penis or vagina, most familes have a name i.e, a pee pee or something other then the adult verison. Then you know someone has told them what to say. No, Michael is a pedophile and should be convicted.

[Beth Volkmar]

I have a friend who was arrested and is currently serving time for child molestation. He truly is a child at heart but yet he is serving time behind bars because he did not obey the rules of society. So why is it that if you have lots of money you can buy a "get out of jail free" card?

If Michael Jackson truly is a child at heart and all of his accusors are lying, then he should be left alone. However, he needs to learn how to live and function properly in today's society. He also needs to learn the "rules" of what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

If he is guilty, then he should be tried and punished in the same manner as someone who does NOT have a bazillion dollars.

[Tracy Laudenslager]

Sometime money makes people do evil things. If people look carefully into the familys of the accusers maybe a doubt would be put in there minds. First family, never filed any charges against Michael Jackson, just wanted money. I am a mother of 2 little girls, If anyone male or female put there hands in anyway on my children you better believe the criminal courts would have to take care of it. Along with the first family, the father was in a big debt and had previously asked to borrow 1 million dollars from Michael Jackson who had said No. Second family, this is not the first time the mother has pressed charges for some sort of a harrassment. She was involved in a "0000" in the late 80's. She had admitted to lying for a "friend" to get money "fast". Also in early 90's had made a complaint against JC Penny saying the security guard touched her. They settled out of court for alot of money. Just because someone settles out of court does not mean they are guilty. When you are rich you are a target. Parents who are sick and greedy will convince there children to lie. If he is guilty, He should be punished no matter how rich or popular he is. I think there are alot of facts we are all not aware of. Everybody has there own opinion and I would never try to change someones, but I really believe in innocent untill proven otherwise.

[Sharonda Jones]

I do not know if Michael is guilty or not, but what I DO know, is that he deserves a fair trial just like anyone else who is accused of committing a crime. If Michael in fact did commit these crimes, then by all means he deserves to be punished. However, if it comes out later that he in fact DID NOT, then what is everyone's justification going to be then, that have already convicted him in their own minds? I think it is unfair to ASSUME that just because an adult- MALE OR FEMALE- is overly affectionate toward a child in society's eyes, that they must be molesting the child. Maybe he is just passing on the love and affection that he never received from his parents as a young child. Until you walk in someone's shoes, you can't say how they SHOULD have acted because you were not seeing the world through that person's eyes. I believe Michael needs to receive psychological counseling, but I do not believe that it is fair for people to pass judgement on someone based on hearsay. Once there is CONCRETE evidence that proves that he is guilty, THEN it would be more appropriate for people to deem him as being guilty.

Just my thoughts...

[Jan Conklin]

Not in any way to diminish this logical and thoughtful exchange of ideas, but sometimes you do need to step back and find a humorous aspect in the day, don't you? If you don't, then do NOT check out this link. (THEN we can handle more of the daily drudgery we must face, after a few seconds of comic relief.)

The Borowitz Report (http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=1080&srch=TV%20Look-Alike)

The link may change in the future, but hopefully not - I've tried to link to the archived position of the story.

/Jan

[Rachel Brown]

Comic relief, and at just the right time for me. I just cant believe what lengths some people will go to thease days. The look-a-like of the look-a-like's look-a-like, how far do you think this ones going to go ?
Thank for the chuckle !
Rachel

[Margaret Okin]

reading everyones comments makes me feel good of the understanding most have. I read one comment which put shivers in my spine and that is the comment that the court needs to prove with evidence, im sorry but I sat in many trials of child molestation cases and bottom line is it is the word of the child and Michael. What I found out being involved in this type of crime is that if the child is consistent in his or her statements then you need to side with the child. You also need to understand that a pedophile like Michael is a person rthat always is involved with children, they groom them then they molest them. From the info. I have gathered that is exactly what he did. In my heart I truley beleive he is quilty, to many accusations through the years made about him.

[Ms Minta Thomson]

DSM-IV-TR: Pedophilia http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0890420254.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This Paraphilia is characterized by sexual activity with a child, usually age 13 or younger, or in the case of an adolescent, a child 5 years younger than the pedophile.

Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia
(cautionary statement)
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.

Specify if:

Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both

Specify if:

Limited to Incest

Specify type:

Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association

***Keep in mind...pedophilics act on many differing levels ranging from the guy who seeks a job as a bus driver...to the clown who only does childrens b-day parties...or the boy scout leader.......or the church youth group leader.....or the ymca youth swim coach.

They do not always touch their victims physically......some just have a need to be around children......and may sexually gratify themselves later as they fantasize about their encounter. The danger is usually the incidents and methods of contact often increase in number and proximity.

Lastly, consider, "In their study of the long-term impact of the abuse of children, P.E. Mullen, et al., note, “Child abuse, and sexual abuse in particular, has come to be regarded by many clinicians as making a powerful contribution to adult pathology.”29 The cycle of abuse continues when the victims of sexual abuse become parents themselves. Danya Glaser and Stephen Frosh observe:


Most significantly, perhaps, for social workers and other professionals working with children, it seems that victims of child sexual abuse may be more likely than others to become abusers themselves (Sheldrick, 1991) or to have children who are themselves abused, both physically (Goodwin, 1982) and sexually (CIBA, 1984).30 "(http://www.davidicke.net/medicalarchives/effects/pedophilia.html)

I hope this documentation and research helps everyone examine the facts of this case. I know it is a highly emotionally charged subject ......but we must remain objective.

Minta ;)

[Jan Conklin]

This keeps bugging me: if I were in Jackson's shoes and had gone thru this type of problem before, I really think that I would have changed my habits after the first experience or so. It makes no sense that somebody has been accused of a crime in the past, has narrowly escaped prosecution / punishment by the "long arm of the law" in one way or another, has paid out literally million$ in settlement agreement(s), and then does not take adequate steps to protect himself from it happening all over again.

Does this reasoning make sense to anyone? Stated differently: if I had been accused of molesting children one time, whether justly or unjustly, having gone thru the experience would convince me to stay miles away from each and every child I saw who was unattended by its parent/guardian, so that it would never happen to me again!!!! I really and truly think I would take whatever steps were necessary to make sure I could never be put into that predicament again.

To me, it requires either 1) one heckuva lot of arrogance, or 2) a complete disassociation with reality, or 3) an uncontrollable attachment to one's previously condemned behaviour, or 4) something else I can't even imagine - to let the same scenario repeat over and over again. That bewilders me.

Even one who is such a combination of psychoses that (s)he simply cannot control his/her actions around unguarded kids would HAVE to know (s)he could at the very least modify certain factors so that the same old tune didn't keep going round-n-round like a stuck record player. Ya think? I know it's not fun to appear in court at the defendant's table.

/Jan

[Ms Minta Thomson]

This keeps bugging me: if I were in Jackson's shoes and had gone thru this type of problem before, I really think that I would have changed my habits after the first experience or so. It makes no sense that somebody has been accused of a crime in the past, has narrowly escaped prosecution / punishment by the "long arm of the law" in one way or another, has paid out literally million$ in settlement agreement(s), and then does not take adequate steps to protect himself from it happening all over again.

Does this reasoning make sense to anyone? Stated differently: if I had been accused of molesting children one time, whether justly or unjustly, having gone thru the experience would convince me to stay miles away from each and every child I saw who was unattended by its parent/guardian, so that it would never happen to me again!!!! I really and truly think I would take whatever steps were necessary to make sure I could never be put into that predicament again.

To me, it requires either 1) one heckuva lot of arrogance, or 2) a complete disassociation with reality, or 3) an uncontrollable attachment to one's previously condemned behaviour, or 4) something else I can't even imagine - to let the same scenario repeat over and over again. That bewilders me.

Even one who is such a combination of psychoses that (s)he simply cannot control his/her actions around unguarded kids would HAVE to know (s)he could at the very least modify certain factors so that the same old tune didn't keep going round-n-round like a stuck record player. Ya think? I know it's not fun to appear in court at the defendant's table.

/Jan

I agree.....and the issues you bring up support your second and third theorys.........Perhaps with the level of celebrity he feels the rules of society dont apply.......couple that with rediculous amts of money which have allowed him to buy his way of previous issues ........and top it off with a possible diagnosed (not that we would be privy to this doctor -patient confidentiality) paraphilia ........

and its a bad bad combination .........we shall see if the jury has the ability to assess the facts only.....not the celebrity.......Minta :cool:

[Douglas Silvia-]

Great post Minta. You are right on target and using the DSM provides super information. Michael meet the the requirements of the DSM. His paraphilia or preference is that of a small child. Hope the jury sees this and sends him away for a long time.
Doug

[Nate Clute]

Evidence doesn't always sway me. I follow my hunches, because eventually the whole truth does come to light. Lots of cold cases get re-opened now with new DNA technology. Who knows what kind of tech we will have in the future. And, at the end of the world, there will be a Judgment, and I know the whole truth will be exposed then, not just about Michael, but all people, and all events. Maybe there will be a lie detector, not attached to your arm, but can hear recordings even and determine.

Peace out.

[Andrew Shott -]

I agree with Sharonda on this one. I mean we all know that he is a very, very, wierd person. He is like this because of his past. But does he molest children. I'm don't know. I definatly wouldn't let some kid that wasn't mine sleep in my bed. But i also wouldn't let my children stay at his house. Just because kids sleep in his bed, doesn't mean he committed a crime. I think is Michaels case their are a lot of people that want to see him go down. I do feel that he did some things that he shouldn't of done. Showing a kid porn is not exceptable. But it does't mean he molested the kid.

Like other people said he does have an insane amount of money. Money shoudn't let a guilty person go free. But you have to remember that sometimes people that don't have it do some crazy things to get it. Parents could tell their to say things. I know that sounds like a crazy thing to do, but greed is a very powerful thing. The kid that is accussing him this time has the ability to make his family multi, and i mean multi millionairs. I think that is reason enough to lie. That is why people should keep a very open mind on this case. This is why it is important not to make pre-judgments. I know he did some illegal things but i'm still not certain he molested anybody.

As for that fact that he paid of the family on the first accusation. That doesn't mean he is guilty. It just means it was easier to just pay them off, then to have to go though all the stuff he is going to have to go through now. I know if my kid was molested i would want the 0000000 to go to prison. I woudn't except a pay off, because i would know that once he was found guilty i could them start the civil suit and get much, much more out of it.

If he is guilty put him away for a very long time. But until he is found guilty then he deserves to be treated innocent until then. Unless it's a OJ situation, then, you know he is guilty. A lot of innocent people have been sent to prison for many years and then been found innocent later. Their lives have been ruined. I would hate for that to happen to Michael just because people already think he is guilty in their mind because of he is very strang and wierd.

[Jan Conklin]

... If he is guilty put him away for a very long time. But until he is found guilty then he deserves to be treated innocent until then. Unless it's a OJ situation, then, you know he is guilty. ...
Heh heh - that's a very telling statement you wrote, Andrew. I happen to have been one of the public who was outraged over the authorities' trampling all over OJ's civil rights back then; since I had no firsthand knowledge of the crime, I did not assume and I thought nobody should have assumed. Possibly if the police had not assumed they would have done a better job of investigating, and if OJ really was guilty Ms. Clark would have had a chance to prove the case. She has said that she didn't want to prosecute the case because when it landed on her desk she knew she couldn't win it. (See how important honest, truthful investigation - searching for the truth, not creating what we want it to be - is?)

So I don't feel like that should have been an exception to the rule of "innocent until proven guilty", either. When it comes to truth, we cannot cherry-pick which we want to believe, and under ideal circumstances justice wouldn't do so either.

Unfortunately, today the reality is that someone who stands accused of a crime is treated as "guilty until proven innocent", and you don't get proven innocent easily. Nor cheaply. I know this from firsthand experience.

It's all one more reason I would love to be a top-notch PI in search of the whole truth. There is simply no way to give back a person the years of their life that are taken away when an innocent person is unjustly convicted, no matter how many DNA tests later exonerate them. If it's not gotten right the first time it's a wrong that cannot be righted. Makes it crucial that our job be done with a single minded search for the truth.

/Jan

[Thump - me hopping off the soap box]

[Ms Minta Thomson]

Unfortunately, today the reality is that someone who stands accused of a crime is treated as "guilty until proven innocent", and you don't get proven innocent easily. Nor cheaply. I know this from firsthand experience.

It's all one more reason I would love to be a top-notch PI in search of the whole truth. There is simply no way to give back a person the years of their life that are taken away when an innocent person is unjustly convicted, no matter how many DNA tests later exonerate them. If it's not gotten right the first time it's a wrong that cannot be righted. Makes it crucial that our job be done with a single minded search for the truth.

/Jan [Thump - me hopping off the soap box]

It is hard to quantify the amt of financial and emotional damage that affects the wrongly sentenced inmate, their family and loved ones.

Their finances are affected (loss of income, loss of job due to being absent to handle legal issues, and possible loss of insurance because the inmate was the provider)......

The children are affected when other children are not allowed to play with them. or they are treated differently in school or they are not counseled to deal with the shame and fear).

The family may have to move out of their home (loss of mortgage income)....etc....etc.

Great posting ........Minta :D

[Angie Falzon]

I read a story in Feb's issue of PI magazine entitled "A Molester's Mementos" about a case that was able to be won 27 years later because the molester took nude pictures of his victims.

I wonder if there was any pictures found of the supposed victims. I bet there is and we may never know because you can bargain with MONEY or have someone get rid of the evidence for you AFTER it is found!!!!

[Catherine Larkin]

Obviously we know that justice is more based upon who can convince others to believe whatever "truth" rather that what the actual truth is. Jan, I too have had an event in which I learned the true meaning of "Justice." I think in a way, that is why I am here. Andrew, I believe the Micheal Jackson trial is an on-going witch hunt conducted by a prosicutor who failed to convict him in his last trial. It is a vendetta against celebrity, lifestyle choice (i.e., dressing and looking like he wants to), and atavistic behavior, and personal freedom. I believe there is also racism involved in the mix. I would actually like to "follow the money" in this case and see who is "funding" the prosicution. That would be fun.

[Douglas Silvia-]

Evidence will sway me if it directly links the subject to the crime. In this case it will and hopefully Jackson will be put some were so he will never be able to harm another child. HE IS A SICK FREAK!!!

[Adam Houchen]

Haven't been paying that much attention to the trial but I still am undecided on the case. This guy is so rich if he really wanted to do this kind of stuff why wouldn't he had all these people payed off? It just don't fit to me. There are to many people out there to make a quick buck just by jumping on the bandwagon and saying yeah that happen to my kid too. Just my .02

[Nate Clute]

I don't think this is a witch hunt. This is the second time he has been charge, the first time he paid off the victim. What kind of ethics is it for a person to get paid money and be quiet? If I am after justice, not money, then money can not keep me quiet about an ill-begotten situation. I could see if there was financial damage or medical bills, but this is serious emotional, sexual damage here. How could anyone compromise that for cash. Unless it never happened...


If he is guilty, then he should be tried and punished in the same manner as someone who does NOT have a bazillion dollars. True, but lets keep going with that. If a rich person is deemed innocent in a criminal case by a jury of their peers, they will face an additional civil suit (despite double jeopardy regulation.) Poor or middle class will not face civil suits, because they have no money(not ok with me.)


According to my Psych Bible ...(DSM-IV-TR) :) Oh boy, psychology...
Even one who is such a combination of psychoses that (s)he simply cannot control his/her actions around unguarded kids would HAVE to know (s)he could at the very least modify certain factors so that the same old tune didn't keep going round-n-round like a stuck record player. Ya think? I know it's not fun to appear in court at the defendant's table. have you not heard of negative reinforcement principle? Surely you have. Otherwise there would be no repeat offenders if our grand prison system really rehabilitated criminals, deviants or abnormal people into respectable citizens. Fact of the matter is it doesn't. Please... go watch a movie based on the true story "Brubaker" starring Robert Redford, or perhaps read the book.


But until he is found guilty then he deserves to be treated innocent until then. Unless it's a OJ situation, then, you know he is guilty. A lot of innocent people have been sent to prison for many years and then been found innocent later. Their lives have been ruined. I would hate for that to happen to Michael just because people already think he is guilty in their mind because of he is very strange and wierd. Come now, Andrew. His career was down the toilet after the first civil suit years ago. Poor guy can't grow up because he never got to be a child. What child stars do you know who are successful now? Seems one of the Olsen twins was in drug rehab... go down the list. The Divine One made childhood for a reason - - not to be in a career already. Parents shouldn't use their kids to pay their bills, their responsibilities--If its wrong in 3rd world countries, it's wrong in Hollywood!!! What kid wouldn't rather watch cartoons anyway than wierd millionaire, spoiled rotten actor kids.


So I don't feel like that should have been an exception to the rule of "innocent until proven guilty", either. When it comes to truth, we cannot cherry-pick which we want to believe, and under ideal circumstances justice wouldn't do so either. ... It's all one more reason I would love to be a top-notch PI in search of the whole truth. Exactly. It just isn't constitutional for PI's to delve into the judicial branch or the jury. We are the eyes and ears of the jury, not the jury itself. A person may wear many hats, but don't try giving me a speeding ticket, driving a fire truck. I'm not going to pull over.... being unbiased and open-minded is crucial to discovering truth, and the branches of power are separated with good reason. So did they find WMD in Iraq yet? Oops sorry... wrong topic.


...There is simply no way to give back a person the years of their life that are taken away when an innocent person is unjustly convicted, no matter how many DNA tests later exonerate them. If it's not gotten right the first time it's a wrong that cannot be righted. Makes it crucial that our job be done with a single minded search for the truth.

[Kevin Dame]

I'm not trying to say what MJ did was right, because molesting children is the most wrong thing you can do. But I ask this: WHY does a parent--knowing that MJ was accused of sexual molestation before--allow their children to go anywhere near Neverland Ranch?

If I were a parent--someday, I hope--I would never allow my child to spend time with an accused molester, much less spend the night at his house! In any decently run neighborhood, this guy would have been blackballed and no children would be allowed on premesis without supervision.

But now parents are letting their children sleep over at his house. Innocent until proven guilty....it should be the other way around when molestation is involved. Best to err on the side of caution.

Oh, and I don't feel bad for the parents of the first child. they BOUGHT their son's innocence. It came with a heavy price tag, but you can bet your life that if a man was convicted of sexually molesting my children, he would be in jail for life...or given a healthy dose of vigilante justice.....not allowed to roam free after giving me a few million dollars. I'm sorry, my child is not a financial transaction.

We ought to be blaming the parents AND Michael Jackson.

[Douglas Silvia-]

Well we will soon no won't we. Guilty or Not Gulity it will be in the hands of the Jury.

[Nate Clute]

I'm not trying to say what MJ did was right, because molesting children is the most wrong thing you can do. But I ask this: WHY does a parent--knowing that MJ was accused of sexual molestation before--allow their children to go anywhere near Neverland Ranch?

If I were a parent--someday, I hope--I would never allow my child to spend time with an accused molester, much less spend the night at his house! In any decently run neighborhood, this guy would have been blackballed and no children would be allowed on premesis without supervision.


From a certain perspective, I totally agree with your statement. Hey, when I was a child, my parents didn't let me spend the night at anyone's house, even friends.... period. Especially when I turned teenager. They said that is how teenage girls get pregnant... that it starts with sleepovers. At the time, I and my friends especially, did not understand. But, now that I am older, I totally understand and respect several of their decisions, and I can say, I have no children from "wedlock."

I guess this is no more than an example of the gradual moral decay and spiritual loss our society has gravitated to. And, anyone who stands for something is misunderstood.