Mom accused of murder, allegedly refused a Caesarean: Can you believe this?

[G. Jean Davis]

Did Mother's Vanity Kill Unborn Baby?
Woman Charged With Murder After Allegedly Refusing C-Section
By ALEXANDRIA SAGE, AP


SALT LAKE CITY (March 12) - A woman accused of murder because she allegedly refused a Caesarean section that could have saved her unborn twin denied the charge Friday, rejecting claims she avoided the surgery because she feared scarring.



My opinion>> I can't even imagine a women causing the death of one of her babies for vanities sake. That is just beyond me. This is completly outragous.

[Edward Taguba]

Originally posted by G. Jean Davis
she avoided the surgery because she feared scarring.


Oh common this is crazy excuse....

[Kevin Hawley]

I can believe this. My wife just finished some classes for some ECE credit, and it was an eye opener. I would not be surprised by this after talking with this teacher. A good moral attitude was not what she wanted from her. The teacher wanted some one that would put something other then the child first and the child last. So some women wanting to put beauty before the life of her baby is not to me something that is beyond belief.

I think it should be punishable, but for how much? Many people don't think of the baby's rights until it comes out of the women's body. This women was clueless about the need for the C-section. Beauty came first. I just don't understand that.

[B Ann Craig]

Originally posted by G. Jean Davis
Did Mother's Vanity Kill Unborn Baby?
Woman Charged With Murder After Allegedly Refusing C-Section
By ALEXANDRIA SAGE, AP


SALT LAKE CITY (March 12) - A woman accused of murder because she allegedly refused a Caesarean section that could have saved her unborn twin denied the charge Friday, rejecting claims she avoided the surgery because she feared scarring.



My opinion>> I can't even imagine a women causing the death of one of her babies for vanities sake. That is just beyond me. This is completly outragous.
Jean, I moved this thread for you.

I can't believe that some one would be uncaring of the child from their body. I do know this happens. These days they can give you such a small scar form a C-section. Plus, they can give you E oils by Rx, that will totally remove the scars. There is no excuse for losing a life for this kind of a reason.

Have a wonderful week. Take care. :)

[G. Jean Davis]

Mom suspected of trying to sell stillborn
Pleaded innocent to homicide charges
Monday, March 15, 2004 Posted: 1:56 PM EST (1856 GMT)



Rowland was charged with the murder of her stillborn baby.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (AP) -- Prosecutors are investigating whether a woman charged with killing her baby by refusing a Caesarean section tried to 0000 a couple by offering to sell them the non-existent child for bail money, a newspaper reported.

Deputy Salt Lake County District Attorney Kent Morgan told the Deseret News his office was reviewing the allegations from a California couple who said they accepted collect telephone calls from Melissa Rowland from jail.



This woman is beyond sick. Don't know exactly what she would be designated as>>>> disgusting for sure.

[Geri Wurth]

It will certainly be interesting to see if they charge the "mom" with anything. Right now it's only an alleged murder for refusing life-saving treatment I guess... The motivation of the mom is like totally unbelievable, poor baby...

[G. Jean Davis]

Originally posted by Geri Wurth
It will certainly be interesting to see if they charge the "mom" with anything. Right now it's only an alleged murder for refusing life-saving treatment I guess... The motivation of the mom is like totally unbelievable, poor baby...

Yes Geri, she has been charged with murder amongst other pending charges. This is so very sad for the babies. :mad:

[Mary Cervantes]

Did Mother's Vanity Kill Unborn Baby?
Woman Charged With Murder After Allegedly Refusing C-Section
By ALEXANDRIA SAGE, AP

It is a shame that some people value life so little, yet think so much of themselves. That poor baby.


Mary

[Maria Jonas]

Why can't she just be like other moms, and just add the scar to the common story just about all of us heard:

"You were born on the coldest/hottest/rainiest day of the year! I was in labor for 45 hours and they had to pry you out of my loins because you refused to come out."

My mom is always showing me her C-section scar... It's a guilt trip mechanism.

[Abraham King]

I think the point that everyone is missing is that having a child only technically makes you a mother, the woman in question has no business being in the same sentence as the word mother. She is obviously mentally ill and potentially a sociopath who, because of here total lack of regard for human life has no place in society.
This raises the moral and ethical dilema, if you have to have a license to breed dogs, why not to breed humans, we are far more complex and needy, and as this woman proves, capable of far more heinous crimes to our fellow humans if not raised well. Is it our perception of procreation as a God given right that causes us to overlook the gravity of the resposibility of raising a generation to suceed ourselves, or, do we, as so often is done, turn a blind eye to the cause and and focus our reproach on to those that are most often the victim of a vicious cycle ignorance.
It is easy to point out the obvious evil that is embodied in this womans actions. It is much harder to realize that there is a story behind this woman as well, possibly even more tragic than her crimes. When we can first focus on that story, and determine what factors can drive a person to such abhorent behavior is when I believe we as a society can begin to effect positive change.
Please don't confuse what I have said for a justification or rationalization for this womans actions, It is only my overwhelming respect all forms of life that prompt me to both grieve for the loss of an unborm child, and have concern for the future of it's mother.

Stepping off of the SoapBox
Abe King

[Maria Jonas]

Originally posted by Abraham King
[B]I think the point that everyone is missing is that having a child only technically makes you a mother, the woman in question has no business being in the same sentence as the word mother. She is obviously mentally ill and potentially a sociopath who, because of here total lack of regard for human life has no place in society.


Yes, I do believe that is true. I think stories like this make us aware of people that believe differently than we do in the respects of the value of children. You would think that most people would be attached to something that is living within them, a part of them, but its pretty obvious after cases like this that people are capable of anything.

[G. Jean Davis]

It makes no difference at all because what she did for the reasons she gave is absolutely abhorent. It would be like as if your child fell over a cliff and was hanging on by his finger tips. You said " sorry, I could not save him as it would possibly break a fingernail".

Nobody should be vain enough to give up a life to save scars on ones body.

Just my two cents worth. :(

[Tiffiny Dixon]

Hi B Ann Craig,
When I saw what this lady had done,I cried.To actually think that someone would do something like that.The first thing that came to my mind was,that she be given the death penalty.
and about the scar,please!she then contacted an couple while she was in jail,and asked them if they would like to adopt her baby.Even after the baby was already dead.She tried to get money from them and she did.Then she turned around and used it to get out if jail.This individual is a very disturd person.What ever happens to this lady she deserves.
.
Originally posted by B Ann Craig
Jean, I moved this thread for you.

I can't believe that some one would be uncaring of the child from their body. I do know this happens. These days they can give you such a small scar form a C-section. Plus, they can give you E oils by Rx, that will totally remove the scars. There is no excuse for losing a life for this kind of a reason.

Have a wonderful week. Take care. :)

[Petra Post]

...And to think how many women are out there hoping to hold a baby in their arms and can't for whatever reason...

[B Ann Craig]

Yes, it is so sad that so many people would love to have a baby, and can't. Then other could care less for their babies. It is too sad. :(

Have a wonderful weekend, and Mothers Day. Take care. :)

[Barbara Compton]

In my oppion, I couldn't wait to hold my 3. Yes I do have my birthing stories, I can't beleive that the kids still love to hear them. Never thought of using the "guilt trip" angle. ;) When I first read about this, it broke my heart! I totally value my family. I was wondering how old this woman was? What about that depression (can't remember the name of it) would that have an effect? Definately not in her right mind! I grieve for the child. Just sad :(

Barbara Compton

[Barbara Moller]

[U]The woman definitely has some mental problems, the question is, "Why wasn't this identified during any prenatal MD visits????????

[Maria Jonas]

She probably had no prenatal visits... Women like that are begging to have a miscarriage, sad to say! :(

[Yvonne Oliver -]

I absolutely agree with you. We can look to what the woman has done and say how horrible it is, but we can never know the whole tragedy of her life. Of course I feel sorry for the baby, because it didn't have the chance to live. But think about what was done. If the mother was so truely scarred, emtionally and mentally, do you think that it would've been better for her to raise that child? I like your post, it makes you think.

Yvonne Oliver

[Patrick Egan]

I think everyone should have a open mind ,If we really don't know what the whole store,be hind the picture.Were inc.untill the find us guilted.That is the law today.

[Patrick Egan]

To be good Private Investigators don't let your emotion take over.

[Julie Mercer -]

Yes, we should all listen to both sides of the story. But, I feel that is the jurors responsibility more than mine. Her attorney will agrue medigating circumtances, I sure. Although, I understand the socioeconomics and psychological aspects of this females behavior, it is absolutely deplorable! Society's attitude and total disregard for basic human life is a travesty. There is such a cavalier pose that everything is disposable! We have been so desensitized by the media and always trying to be "polically correct" that we forgot about the value of life.

Obviously, this girl felt justified in her decision. In my opinion, she definitely needs help, but her punishment should be one of retribition.

Very sad situation! As adults are decisions have a ripple affect on others, not just ourself!

Julie Mercer

[Linda Siniff]

Did Mother's Vanity Kill Unborn Baby?
Woman Charged With Murder After Allegedly Refusing C-Section
By ALEXANDRIA SAGE, AP


SALT LAKE CITY (March 12) - A woman accused of murder because she allegedly refused a Caesarean section that could have saved her unborn twin denied the charge Friday, rejecting claims she avoided the surgery because she feared scarring.



My opinion>> I can't even imagine a women causing the death of one of her babies for vanities sake. That is just beyond me. This is completly outragous.

To my understanding she had a scar already. I am a mother of three great kids and all were c-section with the same scar. Was she on Medication? :confused: :confused: :confused: :cool:

[Brenda Templin]

Hi,

It is just beyond my comprehension that a mother could do this. That is about as low as a person can go.

Brenda Templin

[Flora Porter]

She probably had no prenatal visits... Women like that are begging to have a miscarriage, sad to say! :(
I agree with every one
She dont value life. She had no right carrying one.


PI Trainee
Flora Porter

[Osmond McMahon]

Several posts made many good points. I, in no way condone ror justify her actions for whatever her own reasons were. However, I would have to agree that labeling and condemming her prior to knowing the whole story behind whatever caused her to make this decision, is irresponsible. While this is a vile tragedy that should never have taken place, there circumstance that may explain, in her own mind, why she presumed this course of action to be the most prudent. There are emotional and psychological factors that, most likely not many of us would ever comprehend, but nevertheless should be evaluated and understood in order to hopefully prevent the next mother to be in a similar situation form making this same decision. Perhaps she was simply concerned about scarring and her own personal appearence. If that is found to be the case, she should pay as dearly as our justice systam can make her pay. But, perhaps there were deeper, more emotinally attached factors or circumstance which caused her to believe what she did was the right thing to do at that time. Then for that as well the appropriate course of action should be persued to the fullest.

[Sandra Collins]

If the mom did refuse the C-section for vanity reasons that is very sad for the lost infant. I actually can beleive this is true, I am a RN, you would be surprised what some individuals will do for vanity reasons. I am not saying she did, but yes it is totally possible.
I have taken care of women who have come into the ER in active labor denying they are even pregnant let alone in the process of birthing a child. I have also seen those same women refuse medical help, then when there is a problem with the health of the infant, low and behold they are in a lawyers office the following day seeking damages.
Its hard for society to believe someone would not put the health of a newborn as a top priority, but it does happen, some women just have no motherly instincts whatsoever.

Sandi

[Kenneth Owens -]

That is crazy. I think they should treat her like a murderer. Who cares about a scar. A child is more important than a scar on the stomach.

[Rob Grimm]

I can't believe how some people's minds work. I have a four month old that I can imagine my life without him. On the other hand I know people that have kids that pawn them off on their parents. The sad thing is that they still call themselves "parents".

[Kat Parkerr]

Do you folks realize you already have her convicted based on a two paragraph blurb in the paper? I'm sorry, but I know there is more to this story and I don't believe everything I read. OBJECTIVITY, PEOPLE! Learn to doubt what you read.

[Sandra Collins]

Kat,
I did not say she was guilty, I said it is possible for that situation to happen.

Sandi

[Kenneth Owens -]

Kat Parkerr, I understand that you have your own thoughts and I totally respect that. It is your right. I do disagree, because I'm against stuff like that and abortion. To me abortion is murder. The great almighty god gives people these children for his reasons. I'm in no way trying to put God onto anybody but it is the truth. We all have our own thoughts and I respect every one''s thoughts, but to me it is wrong to end a life of an unborn child. They were put here for a reason and who gives people the right to take that away from them. The way I see it is if you don't want a child then use birth control not use a stupid reason to kill it. Again, I respect every bodies thoughts we are all different.

[Kimberly Bridges]

...And to think how many women are out there hoping to hold a baby in their arms and can't for whatever reason...


Petra,

I'm one of those women and if she could not "bear" body distortion or disfigurement of a tummy scar. Then it is obvious she should not have tried to conceive. As if natural bearing was an only option for her.

It is a sin she will have to answer for. With so many markets for beauty and remaining young; some women will do anything for attention, to maintain youth. We see it in the grocery aisles, malls, television, billboards, work, magazines, etc., it is a constant reminder to not only remain beautiful, but youthful and thin. Wanna bet, she believed the hype to the point of killing her child.

[Diane Adele Pitts]

It seems to me as if the issue is reflective of deeper ills in our society. It offers me a measure of relief to hear the outrage over so vile an act. But our society as a whole has embraced the concept of the "me first" mentality. (Like this lady felt not having scars was important.) If motherhood is inconvenient or untimely, have an abortion. When society as awhole minimizes the importance of the most vulnerable of us, (unborn children,) those without a voice, we degrade all human life and we loose something of ourselves. Many women have bought into the concept that motherhood is a poor second choice to a career. I find it fascinating that those who run a daycare center and take care of our children have a "career", but if a mother stays home to watch that same child, it is not a career. Obviously this woman is ill if she did this. I don't know what the answer is for her. Our values are all twisted. We have some environmentalists who lament over the loss of wildlife if there is an oil spill, or if animals are mistreated. It is sad that it happens, but where are those voices crying out for the 50 million babies that have died. We have a merciful and patient God.

[Shawn Ablan]

Kat, I'm sorry but I don't think I would want to read any more about it. What we have talked about would be enough for me :mad:

[Debra Goff]

Do you think she realized the seriousness of her condition?

Do you think she realized how much danger the twins were in?

Did she know she was carriing twins?

Was there any confrontation with the doctors before she went into labor?

How experienced were the doctors?

Had they ever given birth to twins before?

Did she have complications in the past?

How many children did this woman already bare?

So many questions?

We shouldn't be so fast to to want to put the blame on anyone.

How many times have you heard of one speak, saying " I am a twin. My brother, or sister died at birth. In my lifetime, I have heard it at least 5 times.

How common is it, that one twin dies at birth?

Anyway, these are just some question to start with?

Sincerely, Deb

[Tay Tanya Smith]

I cannot believe that a mother would risk her babies life over a bikini cut scar that noone can even see, that is ludacris. :mad:

[Tay Tanya Smith]

I cannot believe that a mother would risk her babies over a bikini cut scar that noone can see, that is ludacris.

[Tay Tanya Smith]

Then to add to the atrosity she tried to sell the baby. This is beyond sad!

[Debra Goff]

Good point ! ! !

[Debra Goff]

[U]The woman definitely has some mental problems, the question is, "Why wasn't this identified during any prenatal MD visits????????

Good Point ! ! !

[Sarah Williams]

This excerpt is copied from www.criticalthinking.org

Why Critical Thinking?
The Problem:
Everyone thinks; it is our nature to do so. But much of our thinking, left to itself, is biased, distorted, partial, uninformed or down-right prejudiced. Yet the quality of our life and that of what we produce, make, or build depends precisely on the quality of our thought. Shoddy thinking is costly, both in money and in quality of life. Excellence in thought, however, must be systematically cultivated.

A Definition:
Critical thinking is that mode of thinking - about any subject, content, or
problem - in which the thinker improves the quality of his or her thinking
by skillfully taking charge of the structures inherent in thinking and
imposing intellectual standards upon them.

The Result:
A well cultivated critical thinker:

raises vital questions and problems, formulating them clearly and
precisely;
gathers and assesses relevant information, using abstract ideas to
interpret it effectively comes to well-reasoned conclusions and solutions, testing them against relevant criteria and standards;
thinks openmindedly within alternative systems of thought,
recognizing and assessing, as need be, their assumptions, implications, and practical consequences; and
communicates effectively with others in figuring out solutions to complex problems.
Critical thinking is, in short, self-directed, self-disciplined, self-monitored, and self-corrective thinking. It presupposes assent to rigorous standards of excellence and mindful command of their use. It entails effective communication and problem solving abilities and a commitment to overcome our native egocentrism and sociocentrism. <end>

In what I have read so far it concerns me that I have not seen as much critical thinking in the news forums as I believe is befitting of those who call themselves investigators. Shouldn't we be asking questions first before we cry out for the death penalty? That news article which started this thread gives minimal information and no proof of motive in the woman's refusal of a Caesarian section. Unfortunately, due to the age of this story, it was difficult to find direct links to news articles. However, after just one search on google, I was able to find two people who had written about their opinions and findings in what appears to be online journals. Here are the links to their information:
http://www.aspaceapart.org/archives/000232.html
http://bodyandsoul.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/charges.html
Both of these opinions include links to relevant news articles which I advise anyone to read who would like to formulate their own opinion on the matter. If you'll notice, in the majority of the articles there is mention of the woman's mental illness. Just by looking at this woman's picture, I start to feel that maybe authorities might be a bit responsible for not putting this woman in some kind of treatment for her illness.

[Tiffany Eichor]

:confused:
Do you folks realize you already have her convicted based on a two paragraph blurb in the paper? I'm sorry, but I know there is more to this story and I don't believe everything I read. OBJECTIVITY, PEOPLE! Learn to doubt what you read.


Thank you, Kat, for your view. I agree that you should not believe everything you read. You probably shouldn't believe even half of what is reported by the media. By the time someone goes to trial, their case has been splashed across the front page of all the major newspapers. The citizens chosen as jurors have done exactly what these forum members have done. They have a preconceived idea of what happened. Our "peers" have us mentally drawn and quartered before receiving all of the story. This woman, like so many others, will have very little chance of an untainted jury when she does go to trial. I am all for freedom of speech, but the press takes no reponsibility for what they report. They design headlines to sell papers, not for truth. The press needs to stop reporting details of a case to the general public before the juries have a chance to see the evidence. I guess this one of my soap boxes, sorry. Tiffany Eichor.

[Michele R. Schibi--]

Where was the father of the baby?