Hotel Room Keys Contain your Info! Please Read

[Deborah Siehl]

Moderator Note:
This topic has been closed.

The new topic is located here:
http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?p=442097

[B Ann Craig]

Identity Theft

Southern California law enforcement professionals assigned to detect new threats to personal security issues, recently discovered what type of information is embedded in the credit card type hotel room keys used through-out the industry.

Although room keys differ from hotel to hotel, a key obtained from the "Double Tree" chain that was being used for a regional Identity Theft Presentation was found to contain the following information:
* * Customer?s (your) name
* Customer?s partial home address
* Hotel room number
* Check in date and check out date
* Customers (your) credit card number and expiration date!

When you turn them in to the front desk your personal information is there for any employee to access by simply scanning the card in the hotel scanner. An employee can take a hand full of cards home and using a scanning device, access the information onto a laptop computer and go shopping at your expense.

Simply put, hotels do not erase these cards until an employee issues the card to the next hotel guest. It is usually kept in a drawer at the front desk with YOUR INFORMATION ON IT!!!!

The bottom line is, keep the cards or destroy them! NEVER leave them behind and NEVER turn them in to the front desk when you check out of a room. They will not charge you for the card.

Information courtesy of: Sergeant K. Jorge,
Detective Sergeant,
Pasadena Police Department

Additional information has been received advising that there have been cases in Canada in which suspects were using information taken from these card keys to download debit and credit information and with a stolen pin, clean out people's account. Many more of these cases are ongoing throughout Canada.

(Information source: Texas Department of Public Safety)

Deborah, thank you for posting this information. I never thought about that much information being on the card. I guess I should have, though. I know when I have had those cards, and shop in their gift shops, you can use your room key cards. I thought they just had a code in the card, that just made a list on your bill when you left. I always use my own card, in stead of my key card.

I also, thought you were charged if you didn't turn in your key cards when you left. Next time I have one of the key cards, I will ask them what information they put on the card. I will see if they level with me. I will keep the card when I leave, too. They should inform people that this information is going on those cards.

I have to admit, I like it when they have those cards. They are much easier to use.

Thank you, again for posting this information. ;)

Have a wonderful week. Take care. :)

[Mr Jose Bonavich Jr]

Deborah,

Excellent topic.

I know I was unaware that so much info was stored on those little hotel cards and I spent 10 yrs as a travel consultant.

I think the next time I stay at a hotel I'll just keep my little card when I leave :D

[Kimberly Lackey]

Hi Deborah,

Thank you so much for passing this valuable information along. I just wish that i would have known this before I went on my vacation! We stayed in at least 7 different hotels.

That's just another reason why we should always read our statements thoroughly as soon as we receive them.

[Chris A Brandt]

Deborah

Thank you for this great info. very helpful.:)

[Valerie Roach]

Deborah, thank you for posting this alert. I suddenly feel the need to dash back to the Best Western I just stayed in and grab those keycards I turned in at the desk. You can believe I'll cut those puppies up from now on. I knew they contained our names and check out date, but [I]not the credit card info! Wow, do I feel pinched! Thank you again.

[Kristen Godot]

Hi Deborah,

Thanks for the wonderful info. I used to work in the Hotel Industry in management for 7 years, but I guess they have upgraded their key/lock systems a lot more in the past 5 years or so since I've been out of the loop working in a different field. It really makes me wonder what the purpose of this is. If I remember correctly the key card system was always separate and we used to only punch in the room number and the clerk's security code to recode the keys for use to the new guest. It doesn't make sense that in the world today with all of the new technology and identity theft becoming more & more of an issue, that they would take our privacy & personal information like such a small grain of salt and basically hand it over to the thieves. That's a really bad call, next time I stay in a hotel instead of taking the key card with me when I checkout, I may ask to speak to the manager on duty and ask them to either destroy the key in front of me or erase it while I watch because I know that some hotel chains do charge if you do not return the key.

Kristen Godot::)

[David Fowler]

Wow, I didn't know about the cards either. I think instead of keeping the card, which will in time lead to higher prices on rooms or at least a charge for not returning the card, when you know you are through with the card, drag it across a magnet. This will effectively erase the card. No, I'm not suggesting you carry a magnet around to the hotel with you. But you probably do anyway. The speakers in your car, usually accessable through the trunk have a nice magnet on them. But any magnet will do. Just drag it across the strip on the card a couple of times. That should erase anything stored on it. Of course you need to keep that same magnet away from your credit or debit cards. Or maybe we should just demand that the clerk erase the card before we pay up. Don't steal the card. We're supposed to be the ones who catch the crooks. Remember?

[Danny King -]

Originally posted by David Fowler
Wow, I didn't know about the cards either. I think instead of keeping the card, which will in time lead to higher prices on rooms or at least a charge for not returning the card, when you know you are through with the card, drag it across a magnet.

You beat me to the punch David. That would be my suggestion too.

[David Wayne Cash]

Deborah,

Thanks so much for the post. I wasn't aware of this. Thanks to the rest of you for solutions to the problem.

[David Fowler]

Same Page Danny

I just thought that most of the folks who posted about taking the card with them hadn't thought it all the way through. They didn't realize that they were suggesting stealing from the hotels/motels. But that's exactly what it would have been. You can cover yourself without having to resort to the type of activity that we as professional investigators should never do. Subterfuge, little white lies, etc. Acceptable and even necessary in some cases, but theft, never.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

Thank you, Deborah

After my wife and me embarked the ship last month for a cruise, we were given two cards good for everything: opening the door of the cabin, buying a drink at the bar, shopping at the ship's "mall", etc. I also noticed the cards being used for identification at every port: passenger foto on the screen when the card was inserted into a computer (we were photographed when embarking the ship).

At the end of the cruise, when leaving the ship, the pasengers in front of us turned the cards in at the landing desk. I was prepared to do the same but a six sense made me ask:"How will you handle the huge gallery of portraits?". The clerk answered: "You can keep the cards as a souvenir". We kept (and
destroyed) them.

Now, we all are warned against the potential danger. Thanks again.

[Stephen L. Keeling -]

Dragos,

Thank you for your post about the cruise you took and what you can do with your cards at the end of your trip. I'm going on a cruise in a few months and had not thought about the cards even though I knew I would have one.

I may be a little late getting in on this topic but not too late to help myself and others on out cruise.

Thanks Again,

Stephen K.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

You are welcomed. I am glad suggesting an idea that could be useful.

I wish you a nice trip.

[Susan E Philbrook -]

WOW, I did not know this. This is good information to know.
Thanks for posting!

S. Philbrook

[Vaughn Hadden]

Hi Deborah,

This information is extremely helpful. The city I live in is presently having a horrible problem with identity theft. The news channels are reporting everyday for everyone to be careful, and they are listing the precautions that should be taken. However, I have not heard about the hotel keys. Great information!!
Vaughn

[Ms Tenley Oliver]

Deborah,
Thanks so much for the information. I always wondered what
was on the cards.

[Karen Kiely]

Unbelievable! Thank you so much for the info. I was an outside sales rep for 15 years and used my credit card extensively. I have since changed credit card companies (thank God) , but I will be ever alert in the future.

Karen

[Karen Kiely]

Does anyone know how we contact all the hotels to copy and paste this information to send to them?

This is so incredible. I am so shocked, I want to do some thing to stop it.

Karen

[Anthony R. Davis]

It is always best to take the responsibility to protect yourself in these matters. The problem for most folks is what it would take to do so. Certainly a magnet will do the job. If you do not have access to a large magnet all you can trust in is the management has policy in place to protect their customers.


Anthony

[Tina M Phillips]

Thanks for this topic. It is very helpful and it lets us know as Pi's or potential PI's, that this is out there.

I appreciate this information. Those key cards will be mine now!!:D

[Mary A Young -]

I just now am reading this and I have to laugh.

I am notorious, read NOTORIOUS for leaving a hotel with one of these keys in my purse. In fact, I have even been know to mail them back like they used to do with the old keys.

Now I don't feel so bad for having it there! LOL, it now will become my modus operandi.

Thanks again!

Mary

[Frank Shields]

Has anyone here been charged for not returning the card to the front desk? If so, what hotel chain was it?


__________________________

Frank Shields

[Bridgett Brown]

Thanks for posting this very important information that we may be mindful and aware of the identity theft that is rampant throughout the world.

Bridgett

[Tina M Phillips]

Originally posted by Mary A Young
I just now am reading this and I have to laugh.

I am notorious, read NOTORIOUS for leaving a hotel with one of these keys in my purse. In fact, I have even been know to mail them back like they used to do with the old keys.

Now I don't feel so bad for having it there! LOL, it now will become my modus operandi.

Thanks again!

Mary

Good for you!!

[Brandon Lewis]

This is downright scary. I mean the Hotels should be liable for letting this information be put on our Hotel Keys. Why do they need that information just to ket into a room. It should be "yes", does this person belong in the room - ok open the door, or "no" and the door remains locked. How simple......

Thanks so much for the information. I say in hotels a great deal and value this insight a lot!

[Pat Simpson]

Good info--something else to educate us!

[Kenneth Pfaff -]

Hotel/motel card keys, credit card receipts, mail in your unsecured home mail box, discarded bank statements, all material that someone can use to steal your identity.

Its a good idea to just be wary of anything that involves your name, address, social security # and credit info ---> meaning, just don't throw it away and don't assume the clerk is always honest.

The worst way to have your identity stolen is always the least obvious: you gave it to them.

[Kristen Godot]

Kenneth,

I could not have said it any better myself, we definately don't want to help these thieves in stealing our identities. The best policy of course is to always be leary when it comes to your personal information and complete strangers. Thanks for the great info all!

[Mark F Condon]

Everyone please check out the website below for more information about this situation.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp

This is an urban legend that has gained a lot more publicity than it probably should. Yes, personal information "could" be stored on a hotel key card, but contrary to this report, it usually is not. They have no reason to store that much information on a hotel key card, and most major hotel chains don't.

[Kenneth Pfaff -]

Originally posted by Mark . . .

most major hotel chains don't

The key word being "most" --> one can be paranoid to the point of needing mental health help, but taking a few standard precautions with your data is always a good thing. Ask the hotel/motel what's being stored on the card during check-in, shred your unused bank statements, all of those things are just good basic privacy protection safeguards.

[Jeanie Schraeder -]

Originally posted by Mark F Condon
Everyone please check out the website below for more information about this situation.
<center>snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp)</center>

Well, I WAS beginning to feel a bit paranoid ;) after reading the posts in this topic.

But after assesing the information provided by Mark in the above link, there was a feeling of relief. It gave me a sense of 'logical' ease.


distinguishing between . . . . possible and that which is likely
In the 80's and 90's my job had me traveling extensively, and usually, like a 'good girl' I returned all those plastic keys in the morning at the front desk. Glad to have read a different perspective on this industry's operations.

Maybe a healthy dose of 'caution' is in order . . . . but not too much 'worry'?!? :)

[Theodore B. Steinmiller]

This is a link for the official statement from the Pasadena Police Department regarding the hotel key scare.

http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/police/Hotel%20Card%20Key%20Update.asp

I have worked for one of the largest hotels in the world. Although it is possible that some properties have this ID key system I find it very unlikely the hotels would use such technology. A hotel employee would need the software to read the information as it is very likely encrypted. If a hotel employee wants to steal your identity they don't need to scan your information from your key card, it is readily available on when they check your folio. However it is very likely most hotel employees are screened for a criminal record.

I feel you should throw your key away anyway as more keys trashed means more jobs and more profits for the key makers. Not to mention all the wasted postage to return a plastic key that has a retail value of 1/100th of a cent.

Be sure to tip you bellhop well as he may be a future P.I.

[Chris A Brandt]

Great info guys and Gals, very helpful.:)

[Michael A O'Connor]

Thanks for the information , this will be very useful when i go on vacation and stay in the hotels. Michael

[Jennifer L Smead -]

Wow I am completely shocked to read this information. Thank you so much for posting it. For my old investigation firm we use to do hotel stayovers (mystery shopping) and so of us were staying hotels on a frequentl basis!

[Michael Harris]

My experience with hotel key cards is that the only thing on them is the room number.

If you ever watched how the process worked, you would know that there is not personal information embedded in the card.

The card is blank - outside and inside. When you check in to a hotel, they take one or two blank keys and activate them to your room and no other. Since the room number is not on the key card, losing it is not a problem. I lose a lot of them and no hotel has ever had a problem. Also, when the hotel gives me my room assignment, they never say it aloud.

Embedding anything other than the room number is a waste of time. I think the original post originated with some very bad information.

If you are still not sure, do not ask your local police - ask the hotels. The hotels are in the business of making money and embedding guest personal information is not good for the bottom line.

[Daphane Davis]

Thanks for posting on this topic,

As a few people have said, it's safer to take a little precaution.
Do what you feel is right, whether it be to destroy the card, carry a magnet or inquire at the front desk. A plan of action is better than no plan at all.



Happy Sunday to all. Hope all of you ejoyed your Valentines Day !!! :)

[Michael Harris]

Daphane,

I am going to do a little research on this one. It is just too stupid to be true.

[Michael Harris]

To All:

The original report by the Pasadena Police indicated that no hotel does this now (if ever).

As of today, detectives have contacted several large hotels and computer companies using plastic card key technology and they assure us that personal information, especially credit card information, is not included on their key cards.

Janet A. Pope
Adjutant to the Chief of Police/Public Information Official
(626) 744-4537

The police were reckless and irresponsible for the article even though they had provided a disclaimer in the body of the article.

This was too stupid to be true.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

This is a real surprise, after almost four months debating the issue. :(

[Eddie J Shelton]

EDDIE,

I also would like to say thank's good info.
I travel a lot and with the company that I'm working
with at this time. I knew about check in and check out,
but did not know about credit card info. agin thank's.

[Debra Lewis -]

all that info is quite stunning!

[Michael Harris]

Eddie,

You did read all the posts - the information was bogus - it does not happen.

[Raymond Fogle]

Originally posted by Kenneth Pfaff
Hotel/motel card keys, credit card receipts, mail in your unsecured home mail box, discarded bank statements, all material that someone can use to steal your identity.

Its a good idea to just be wary of anything that involves your name, address, social security # and credit info ---> meaning, just don't throw it away and don't assume the clerk is always honest.

The worst way to have your identity stolen is always the least obvious: you gave it to them.

Excellent Post! However, I would like to have any business or organization who does this make it known to the consumer that it is being done! Anytime you have a card with a magnetic strip embedded on it as these card keys usually do, you have no idea what information is being placed on them. Granted the technological advances that this helps to create is wonderful, however, without notifying you of the existence, I would think that the business itself could potentially be held liable for such actions if a person's identity was stolen?

Let's say I run a business and maintain customer account records. If some requests an address list from me and I inadvertently give them detailed customer information in the course of doing normal business, could the business or person responsible be held liable depending on the organizational structure of the business?

Just curious and this topic has now raised my awareness level a bit more than it has been in the past. Even though for my personal matters, I have really been very aware but once it is outside of your own knowledge zone what these cards could contain, it seems difficult to say the least.

Ray

[Michael Harris]

Ray,

See my last few posts - the information is bogus. The police did us all a big disservice by pushing out bad information. The police press office has already (months ago) issued an apology for bad information.

You have to ask yourself if this kid of thing (personal information that the hotel may not even have) makes any business sense.

In this case it did not make any business sense. You need to look at the other side of the isse.

[Dragos Sfinteanu]

I think, the last explanation, as well as the conclusion of the thread were given by Michael's post. Further posts should be... out of topic :)

[Daphane Davis]

Micheal,

Please let me know what you find out. Thanks in advance.

[Daphane Davis]

Micheal,,

I guess you have already supplied the answer... I did not scroll down far enough to see your last reply. Thanks again.

[Eddie J Shelton]

EDDIE,
Thank,s Michael I also did not scrol down far enough.

[Linda Brown -]

I would just like to add that wheather this is true or not really doesn't matter. The plain fact is that with today's technology, ANYTHING is possible and we as concerned citizens should be aware of any potential dangers. Forewarned is forearmed. It's a good lesson to always expect the unexpected.

The key thing "could" be done so easy that no one would even suspect their identy info was stolen in that manner.

I say "thanks for the warning" and from here on out, everyone watch for the little things. The simple things are not always easy to spot but they get you just the same.

As far as I know, the hotels in my area only put the room number on the keys. (But I will ask next time)

[Raymond Fogle]

Originally posted by Linda Tinker
I would just like to add that wheather this is true or not really doesn't matter. The plain fact is that with today's technology, ANYTHING is possible and we as concerned citizens should be aware of any potential dangers. Forewarned is forearmed. It's a good lesson to always expect the unexpected.

The key thing "could" be done so easy that no one would even suspect their identy info was stolen in that manner.


Your statements are right on. The magnetic stripes can hold a lot of information regardless of what type of card you are talking about. Just a little side story that I find a little amusing and have not been able to prove it but would think their is some validity to it. Have any of you ever used the Wal-Mart gift cards that are rechargeable? My company that I currently work for uses them to hand out safety award money. Depending on the safety record we would get as much as $25 - $45 per month on these cards. Anyway, always being busy and since the lines are really long at the stores sometimes, you can easily forget that when the clerk takes your card they do not always give it back because they don't think either about the re-useable thing, or DO THEY? We actually had several instances of people forgetting to remind the clerk that this was reusable and they wanted it back so they could use it the next month. One person didn't pay it any mind for almost 3 months and when he went to get a new card, he only had $20 some dollars on it. Apparently they investigated the issue and found that someone or a group of people were collecting these cards and using them as they were being recharged. If you have the card, the number and security code is on the back and you can go right on the website of Wal-Mart to check your balance.

Since then our company has put additional safe guards on the program to prevent it but that was one of those "who would have thought?" issues.

Great comments by all. Thanks.

Ray

[Paul Franco]

Wow. This is very scary. I dont like the Idea of my information floating around. This is a great topic.

[Mary A Young -]

Ray, something else that happens with Wal-Mart gift cards is that they get sold on Ebay!

Somehow, I don't know how, they are able to get these at a "discount" and peddle them there.

Some of this stuff can get a little scary. With the internet, there seems to be many more hoaxes, etc. We have to be careful and discerning, particularly in this line of work.

Mary:eek:

[Lynette Helsel]

mark
I am still reading IPIU forums and I just had to respond to this one too. I just came back from Georgia a few months ago before the bad weather settled in.
We stayed at a Sleep Inn and I remember having suspicious thoughts about those little, convenient cards. My thoughts went something like this: The clerk just asked me my name, address, credit card #, social security #, home phone, age, and what time we wanted to wake up and the time we were alloted for the evening. I specifically remember after the cheesy Continental Breakfast ,we had lost one of those cards earlier and the new clerk gave us another. She did firmly remind us more than once to return the card before leaving.
I know I thought at that moment I wonder what would happen to all my personal info on that little strip?
Now I really will be looking out. I don't travel often actually rarely but we are going to be moving soon to Virginia and I will probably be doing much, much more traveling soon.
I will definitely ask if I can destroy the card, keep it, or ask if they will cut it up in front of me.
Great information and lots to think about in this fast paced society!

[Michael Harris]

Lynette,

If you gave out your SSN, you really deserve to get burned. THe SSN is not a form of ID. Your age is not a valid concern (unless you looked under 18).

Ignore any of the nonsense about information on the cards - it does not exist.

Did you read all the posts in this thread before you posted? You are here to learn have to be an investigator. The first thing to do is get all the available facts before making any conclusions.

[David Ildefonso]

KEY CARDS

Thanks for that info because with my current job we tend to do a
little traveling and we do stay at the Double Tree once in a while.
I'll pass this info around to my coworkers(won't tell them where I heard it;) I'll just say from the grapevine)LoL :D

Thanks again for the info,
David Ildefonso

[Michael Harris]

David,

If you pass around information that the key cards contain anything but the room number, that is irresponsible. The information in the original posting is bogus - that means bad, without merit, etc.

[Lynette Helsel]

Soo...sorry Michael
I too am guilty! I did not read all and scroll. I stopped with the bogus info.

[Michael Harris]

Lynette,

It is all part of the training. Read everything and then draw a conclusion.

[David Ildefonso]

THANK YOU !!!!!!

Michael thank you for that info I too am sorry for not reading the complete story, I take this as a lesson to be learned (That we should always listen or read all facts before coming to a quick conclusion).


Thanks again Michael,
David Ildefonso

Oh yeah and I will finish reading the rest. :(

[Jerry Woytas]

Deborah,

Thanks for the information. As many times as I have traveled and been issued one of those cards. I always thought they put the room number. I know now that I will always take the card with me and do like Danny says and run the thing over a magnet.

Thanks again,
JeryLyn

[Lynette Helsel]

Oh , Oh, My, My,
Dear Jerry,
Please read Michael's statement and then my sincere apology.
I always am punished for "Jumpin the Gun" a Quote from my dear deceased father. I know he is with the Lord and both of them are smilin down on me. I did not read, read, read and scroll, scroll, scroll, or check the #of pages enough.
I was doing late, late, reading and I should learn from my mistakes. I have sleep disorders so late nights are very common with me but I have learned a lesson. Look out for those sneaky bogus attacks.
I think it just brought out a PI's exceptional weakness---or---strenghth and that would be Suspicion!

[Jerry Woytas]

Lynette,

I was just responding to Deborah's information at the first of this forum. I hadn't really thought about the information on one of the Hotel or Motel's cards. Your apology is unnecessary, I was stating my opinion. I, also, agree with Michael's statement. You need to read and read. I will, most certainly, be more careful with the cards in the future.

JeryLyn

[Eddie J Shelton]

To all IPIU members's,
after going back and geting all the facts,
I'm happy to know that hotels are not that
careless with our personal info. as stated at
the begging of this form.A good lesson here
for me do the reading and get all the facts,
before coming to a conclusion. I'm new at
this and could use all the help you guys can
give.


Again Thank's

[Douglas Brown]

Passadina Police Issue Update (http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/police/Hotel%20Card%20Key%20Update.asp)

On October 6, 2003, Detective Sergeant Kathryn Jorge of the Pasadena Police Department received information from a group of Southern California fraud detectives who had formed a fraud investigations network through a local internet carrier. One of the members of this group from another San Gabriel Valley agency reported that in an investigation that he was personally involved in, he came across a plastic hotel card key from a major hotel that had personal information that could potentially lead to identify theft and fraud. This information included names, addresses, length of stay, and credit card numbers. This detective took the precautionary measure of notifying the detectives in the network prior to seeing if this practice was standard in the industry.

As the investigation into this potential fraud risk continued, this information was shared with other members of the Pasadena Police Department and personnel chose to share this information with others before we could correctly evaluate the risk. This has caused a chain reaction of probably thousands of people being given this information before the risk was evaluated thoroughly.

As of today, detectives have contacted several large hotels and computer companies using plastic card key technology and they assure us that personal information, especially credit card information, is not included on their key cards. The one incident referred to appears to be several years old, and with today's newer technology, it would appear that no hotels engage in the practice of storing personal information on key cards. Please share this information with anyone who has a concern over the initial information send out to others as a precautionary measure.

There was never the intent of the Pasadena Police Department to forward this information to others before the risk was evaluated. The information was forwarded by individuals as a possible precautionary note of interest only.

If you have further questions or concerns regarding this message please contact:

Janet A. Pope
Adjutant to the Chief of Police/Public Information Official
(626) 744-4537

[Jerry Woytas]

Thank you, Douglas

JeryLyn

[Lynette Helsel]

:) Ditto thanks Doug.

[Kurk Petterson]

Excellent reading. Thank you.

[Wayne Specie -]

Well, all of the information and opinios that I read here were very well thought out. The keycard issue certainly makes one wonder about the price of convenience. I also found the urban legend comment quite interesting. That page is now bookmarked on my computer. I think the point remains, though, that vigilance without paranoia is the key for today.

[Lynette Helsel]

I hope futuristically private info is maintained as well as public with high regards.

[Eddie J Shelton]

Lynette,
Yea I know thats right,with so many people out there looking for
ways to make a easy buck.:(

[Mark Chappelow]

Hi all

I have worked in the hospitality industry from 1995 to present, and am familiar with the operation of key cards. From my own experience of working for both Marriott and Candlewood, no personal information is stored on the keycards. The keys are programmed via a machine, which is connected to a server, which in turn programs the individual locks to accept the new key.

I'm not sure what the purpose is of adding all the personal information of each guest to the keycard, as:
a) SSN is not required by any hotel - EVER.
b) name/address/credit card info/room number etc. are stored on the central computer and can be looked up by any front desk associate at any time. However, to be most effective, a potential identity thief should make a descreet note of the CCV # on the back of the card.

Guests should never give their home address to a hotel anyway (give a "business" address if asked).

Some people mentioned cruise ships (I have worked and vacationed on several major cruise lines over the years). Yes, the security on ships is very tight, and does included photo ID. As many ships sail internationally, there is a good probablility of your drivers license number, passport #, DOB & SSN being stored by the company. Whether this information is transferred to your cabin keycard is questionable, though they DO contain more personal information than hotels.

Hope this information provides some insight into the underworld of hospitality.

[Daphane Davis]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing, your information clears up alot of questions for me and hopefully for alot others posting in this forum who have concerns about confidentiality. I plan to take a cruise in about six months so if you find out what information is stored by the cruiseline and how its linked to your key card please let me know or just let me know where I can read more about the subject. Thanks again for the info :)

[Joyce C Dixon]

Wow I can't believe this No wonder my daughter got so mad at me when I said I was going to bring the key caard back to the front desk.. she took it out of my hand and put it in her pocket and said we will cut this up in the car.. Wow never thought this was going on.. Wow I am shocked... What next?

[Michael Harris]

Joyce,

It is a bogus report.

You did not read the entire thread.

You jumped to a conclusion. Not a good thing for an investigator.

[Kurk Petterson]

Details, details, details. No Jumping Please.

[Gabriella Roleff--]

Thank you for the information.
I never knew that hotel key cards carried all that information and I thought it was just to open the door. Now I know!

Gabriella Roleff

[Wayne Specie -]

Gabrielle, you need to make sure you read the entire script. This is a link that was mentioned above.


http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp

[Joyce C Dixon]

oh my so sorry you are right I should have read way more.
this is a good lesson for me!!!!!!!:mad:

[Joyce C Dixon]

Well I read it all this time:)

[Alan Houser]

As I'm sure by now everyone has responded to how invaulable this info is I must applaud and thank you for this info.

Being a PI is going to be fantastic.

[Virginia Hedrick]

Hi, Everyone, I just read through the whole thread and the snopes.com site article and I was noting that actually, the article says that out of a survey of 5 or 6 key cards, 3 of them were found to have personal information on them and 1 of the three had the credit card number on it. The last part of the article reads:

Is it nevertheless possible that personal information could be encoded on hotel keycards? Certainly, especially at a non-chain hotel — an unaware (or unscrupulous) hotel operator might mishandle personal information provided by guests. As the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported:

Deputy Attorney General Tracey Brierly saw it with her own eyes in South Lake Tahoe last month.

Brierly, a deputy attorney general in the Bureau of Consumer Protection, attended a High Technology Crime Investigation Association conference in South Lake Tahoe in late October.

The speaker asked for volunteers to provide their credit-card style room keys, the ones with the magnetic stripe. Five or six people provided their keys, and the speaker swiped them through a credit card reader.

"Two of the keys brought up a name and partial address, and another one brought up a name, address and credit card number," Brierly said. "I had no idea this was even a possibility."

Brierly said she didn't know which hotel keys had the embedded information, saying she typically leaves the key in the room upon checkout, but won't any more.
But the issue of whether this is a routine and common occurrence hasn't been demonstrated — a few hotel keycards from one presentation, all taken from the same area (and possibly even from the same hotel) don't establish this as a widespread phenomenon, nor has anyone presented any cases where hotel guests have been victimized by criminals who harvested personal information from hotel keycards.

Nonetheless, those who are concerned that they may be discarding sensitive personal information with their hotel keys, the piece of advice offered at the end of the message quoted at the head of this page is generally sound: when you check out of your hotel, you can retain or destroy your keycard. Your former room's access code will be changed before the room is assigned to a new guest, and few (if any) hotels demand that keycards be returned or charge customers who fail to do so. Just be sure that you are the one who retains or destroys the card.

I plan to use more caution. I think the magnet is a very good idea. :) ;)

Just my two cents worth

Virginia

[Lynette Helsel]

I must pass this on as it was passed on to me!!!!
You must read --read--read---and read again! Please write back when you catch the part of the "hotel key" Hoax. Hoax. Hoax--
Yes doing P.I. work is going to be keeping me on my toes.
Nice to meet you.

[Virginia Hedrick]

beyond the hoax in Pasadena, CA was the very real example in South Lake Tahoe as cited further on in the very same article. :) ;) (3 out of 5 or 6 keys examined!)

I just wanted to make sure that everyone saw that too. Apparently, there are some hotels that do, or did in October rather. They may have changed their operation also. Hope, hope!! ;)

Thanks for your comments and your thoughts!

Virginia :)

[Michael Harris]

Virginia,

Two items:

1) if you put the "www" in front of your link, the forum software generates the hyperlink - making it easy for us to go to your cited link.

2) www.snopes.com is not noted for accuracy in anything.

The issue you cite does not make sense.

[Michael Harris]

According to a reader who contacted the Vice President of Loss Prevention for the Hilton hotel chain:

Certainly, modern security systems are sufficiently sophisticated that personal identifying information "could" be encoded onto hotel card-keys. To do so, however, would be pointless and would create additional work (and expense). Hotel card keys would, obviously, contain a "serial number" (to identify the individual physical card); a room number that the card is programmed to open; and the beginning and ending dates for which the card is valid. But there would be no basis whatsoever for the card to contain the occupant's name or credit card information. The VP has personally verified with their 3 access control system providers that their card keys do not contain personal identifying information.

Another reader informed us:

I have worked as a desk clerk for three hotels: Holiday Inn, Best Western and the Howard Johnson. In all cases, the TESA lock system (key-card) was not connected to the front desk computer in any way. To create a key for a guest, we typed the room number, the number of nights of the stay and how many keys we wanted to create. That's all the information that was recorded. There was no way of encoding any other information.

I would be most surprised to find out that any hotel encoded other information on the key-card. Current technology allows for guests to quick-checkout with the pay-per-view movie system on the TV, so there isn't any need to have more than the room number and length of stay on the key-card.

I just hope that no hotel looks at the posts in the thread claiming that the use of keycards is unsafe and decides that this forum constitutes an adverse website falsely promoting things that could harm the hotel chain.

[Virginia Hedrick]

I am really sorry to have caused the confusion, Michael! :(

The article that I used is the same one you just quoted from. Each part is from the article at: http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp :)

I was just pointing out that if you went even further in the article to the end, you would read the last 7 or 8 paragraphs that I posted. ;) It was about a deputy attorney general in the Bureau of Consumer Protection, attended a High Technology Crime Investigation Association conference in South Lake Tahoe in late October.

Since I used a direct quote from The Las Vegas Review-Journal and the rest of the article, I find that your thought of:
I just hope that no hotel looks at the posts in the thread claiming that the use of keycards is unsafe and decides that this forum constitutes an adverse website falsely promoting things that could harm the hotel chain. to be somewhat remote. In this day and age, I'm not going to say impossible, just remote. :p :rolleyes:

I hope you have a lovely day! :) It's raining here today, but we need it, we have had so much sun lately. :)

Agape
Virginia

[Michael Harris]

Virginia,

We had snow this week (4 inches of heavy wet stuff) and are expecting another 5 inches tomorrow).

The articles that we are reading are misleading in many respects. I have not seen or read anything that tells me that this has ever happened. I would not trust a senior government official - some of their stories are simply for publicity.

My sources in the Office of Consumer Protection in New Jersey cannot find any evidence that hotel key cards have ever been misused.

[Virginia Hedrick]

I had no idea that New Jersey got snow this late in the year. Is this normal? :eek: Be careful in all of that please. :(

I must say that I have seen many of your posts on many of the boards and you have been very helpful to me. Thank you. :)

Because of that I decided to look up the news article and then the organization that held the conference in South Lake Tahoe, CA. ;) The conference was on 10/20-22/2003 and the news article was publised on 11/10/03. Here is a link to the news article if you want to see it.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Nov-10-Mon-2003/news/22542903.html

I personally want to continue to explore the organization's website and if you like I'll report what I find out from the instructors of the particular session that examined the cards. :cool: The second to the last paragraph that I posted originally stated:
But the issue of whether this is a routine and common occurrence hasn't been demonstrated — a few hotel keycards from one presentation, all taken from the same area (and possibly even from the same hotel) don't establish this as a widespread phenomenon, nor has anyone presented any cases where hotel guests have been victimized by criminals who harvested personal information from hotel keycards.

That no one has presented any cases where hotel guests have been victimized by criminals who harvested personal information from the keys indicates that criminals are either not aware of which keys have the info on them, or that they already have the info on them at all (In other words, they aren't looking to see if they have any info on them already). :p

The only criminal activity verified with the key cards was that certain groups were stealing key cards and using a reader to implant credit card info that they had gathered from another source and used the key cards as substitutes for credit cards at point of sale transations. :cool:

That 3 out of the 5 or 6 cards examined, in the conference session that was reported on, contained some info, is something, I feel, to note. :eek: My protective action is to carry a magnet and erase the card when I leave. I did not know that the hotels did not clear the cards when they received them back. I feel that would solve much of the problem too. ;)

Thanks for your help and feed back! :)

Virginia :)

[Maria Jonas]

My boyfriend is a hotel manager, and he said that most hotels only put names and checkout date timers on the cards with the room number.. What reason would they have to put credit information on them?

[Virginia Hedrick]

Thanks for asking your boyfriend!
Wow! So they do put personal information on the key cards and the industry practice is to not remove the information until the card is reissued. Am I glad I saw this thread!

I frequently travel without a male escort and to know that if I lose my key, someone with a reader can know my name, hotel number and check out date is important to me.

The article attributed the possibility of information being put on the cards, to the hotel manager "being unaware or unscrupulous in handling personal info". I, personally, think it would be the person who set up the system, not the hotel manager necessarily. The person setting up the system may have thought that they "were making it easier" for the hotel and the guest, not thinking that criminals can get card readers.

I personally did not know that there were criminal groups that had card readers either!

What an eye opener! :eek:
Virginia :)

[Maria Jonas]

Yeah, it is eye opening, Virginia

It kind of makes you wonder about those "Easy Checkout" methods where you leave the card in your room. I noticed this weekend, when I was at the Marriott, that when you leave your room and housekeeping comes by, they leave the door wide open, and sometimes it is really easy to go in without them knowing. I was looking for the housekeeping lady, and she had left the room and went to get something elsewhere. Some leave to go down the hall and leave doors wide open! How dangerous for you if you leave valuables in your hotel room, including that key!

[Virginia Hedrick]

I wonder if there are any crime stats on that. I'll try to look that up. Most of the larger hotel chains have several housekeepers working in the same area which may provide some deterrence, but you're right that there could be more security. The ones I stay at always say not to leave valuables in your room. (Impossible to do, but a neat disclaimer!)

What do they do at your boyfriend's hotel?

But now we know, and like was posted earlier, we can run a magnet over the card before we leave at the end of our stay, and be more secure. :)

Virginia

[Maria Jonas]

Originally posted by Virginia Hedrick
I wonder if there are any crime stats on that. I'll try to look that up. Most of the larger hotel chains have several housekeepers working in the same area which may provide some deterrence, but you're right that there could be more security. The ones I stay at always say not to leave valuables in your room. (Impossible to do, but a neat disclaimer!)

What do they do at your boyfriend's hotel?

But now we know, and like was posted earlier, we can run a magnet over the card before we leave at the end of our stay, and be more secure. :)

Virginia

I'll have to ask him when I can catch up with him, but I don't think there's much you can do when a person doesn't really care about leaving the door open, and they're not aware at how important that can be.

I'll be taking a magnet with me from now on!

[Lynette Helsel]

Hello Virginia and Maria--
Have you read the whole forum. If you had did you read where the whole thing about hotel cards is a hoax. The police department added a whole apology for the article.

[Virginia Hedrick]

You probably missed my reply when you told me that before. ;)

Yes, the Pasadena article was wrong. But, if you continued reading past the section on the Armenian gangs using card readers to put information on hotel key cards, you will come to the 7 or 8 paragraphs that I posted in this forum that indicated that a high tech crime investigation association held a conference in South Lake Tahoe in October 20-22, 2003. They read, using a card reader, the information on 5 to 6 hotel key cards randomly picked from their audience. Of that small sample, 3 had personal information on them, and of the 3, 1 had the person's name, credit card #, etc.

Maria said that her boyfriend, who is a manager for a hotel said that they put the customers name, checkout date and time, and room number on the hotel key cards at that hotel.

Thanks for your concern, though! :)

The news article that I am talking about is the same one cited at the beginning and throughout this forum.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp
Please take the time to read back through if you have any more questions. :)

Cordially yours :)

Virginia

[William Brassfield]

Hi Folks;
I just finished reading all four pages of this thread, and the one thing I think we all need to do no, matter where we go or is Be Careful but not to the point of paranoia. Yes, I agree the possibility of Credit Card information being on that key is very remote, in fact I'd say you would probably stand a better chance being struck by lightning (God willing, that won't happen either). So, if it makes you feel better, run a magnet across the strip of that card, but remember, it probably isn't neccesary.

Just ''food'' for thought :)

[Lynette Helsel]

http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/police/Hotel%20Card%20Key%20Update.asp
http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?s=http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=11719&perpage=30&pagenumber=2&threadid=11719&perpage=30&pagenumber=2
http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=11719&perpage=30&pagenumber=3
[url]http://www.ipiu.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=11719&perpage=30&pagenumber=3]
I have not practiced this yet so I hope it turns out on the forum... These are the aforementioned discussions..I assume this to be a fairly closed topic since the only substantiated talk was the apology from the
P.D.. The rest are what I gather as "urban legends" or unsubstantiated and possibly careless problematic gossip.
I mostly am refering to Michael Harris comments!:confused:

[Jacqueline Simak]

I didn't read all the comments so this may be redundant. I hear so many people who worry a great deal about their social security #, but they are all out there. Eight states use the SS# as the driver's license #. They're on the driver's license application and voter's registration. Many colleges still use them as college IDs. Just to name a few. We have to keep an eye on our credit reports and take care to protect our identities in many other ways as well--mail boxes, over-the-phone info, etc. Don't be afraid, be aware.

Deborah, thanks for sharing the terrific article.

Jackie

[Lynette Helsel]

HI,
About the SS #'s, I too; said they are used on everything--everywhere. They are not to be used as ID but yet that is exactly what organizations do. Sometimes blatenly refusing a person needed service and unless you are willing, able, and feel like putting up a disgruntled back-at-you type -No that isn't legal argument--most cave in and well there we go! Everyone knows my SS #.
I haven't had any response to my thoughts in the forum here somewhere about SS #'s. I put it as a new topic. I would have to hunt it down.
Beware is a good objective!

[Michael Harris]

Originally posted by Maria Jonas
My boyfriend is a hotel manager, and he said that most hotels only put names and checkout date timers on the cards with the room number.. What reason would they have to put credit information on them?

Why would they put anything other than a room number?

I cannot find any hotel that ever put more than a room number in. First, they had no way of entering the information. Second, the room keycard system and reservation system do not and cannot communicate witheach other.

[Alexis Engebretson]

Hello to everybody,
First of all let me say great article Deborah even if it was a hoax. Second thank you for the suggestion of the magnet David and Micheal and I believe Lynette thank you for all that you had to add to this topic. I can only add that I have never had an instance with any hotel that I have stayed in request any credit card information, s.s.#, address or banking information while they were making up my key card. Yes, if a place asked for that information while typing up the key card my senses would be hightened and I would inquire as to why they needed that information for a key that is only going to open my room. Knowing myself I would tell them that it is not necessary and just wouldn't give it to them.

Now as far as hotels programming how long a person's stay is on the cards, I personally don't feel that would be a major issue. (For me anyway) My parents have always taught me to be very careful and aware of my surroundings where ever I am and I would just be careful not to just leave my card lying around for anyone to snatch.

Also, the suggestion of erasing the card still sounds like good advice to me if you are cocerned with any other possible information, other than your room being programed on it. (That's just my two cents worth and I hope no one takes offense at what I wrote it's just that it's what I've experienced and my own personal thoughts..)

Again thank you everbody for the very good read. I was almost had, thank goodness that I read all of the threads!!!!!!!!! I really look forward to reading more. I hope that everyone has an awesome weekend. (smile)

[Jean Montgomery]

This thread touched on a lot of good information and of course forced us all to read and check things out. Looks like we are going to be a group of awesome PIs. Thanks to everyone.

My take is be careful and always be aware of your surroundings. I also would like to add, if you are uncomfortable with any situation or the request for information...check it out.


Don't worry be happy...life is too short to waste time worrying

Martha Jean

[Jacqueline Simak]

Thank you to everyone with great information and terrific advice. Now that I've given this subject more indepth thought I remember I've been in hotels where I was told I could keep the key card because they reprogram them everytime a guest leaves anyway.

Jackie

[Maria Jonas]

Why would they put anything other than a room number?

I cannot find any hotel that ever put more than a room number in. First, they had no way of entering the information. Second, the room keycard system and reservation system do not and cannot communicate witheach other.

I know that... I don't know if this has anything to do with this, but to sign up for the high speed access at some hotels, you have to enter information that is contained in your hotel check in info. This included (for my internet access), my credit card information. Now, I know this may be a long shot, but if they have all of that stored on the computer where you have to enter that in for high speed internet access, then isn't it possible that someone else can get your info also?

This may have nothing to do with key cards, but it does have to do with your information at the hotel...

[Leslie Stubbs-Hanks]

:cool: Great information. I did not even give a thought to what information might be in the convenient little cards, but now that I know, I will certainly be careful when returning my cards prior to departure in the future.

[Michael Harris]

The only thing on the card is a room number. Did you read the entire thread? Did you go to the links provided?

[Lucricia Chambers]

Thank you for this information , it never crossed my mind. Course I hardly ever stay in a hotel but I had too here recently,and they had one of those key cards .I know next time where the KEY will be if I ever have to stop and stay over some place again ( with me when I leave) ..... :rolleyes:

[Michael Harris]

Lucricia,

It never happens. Did you read the entire thread?

[Lynette Helsel]

we need them card keys soon as I am moving to Virginia. I just can't wait. New log home in the mountains.

[Dawn Neal]

Deborah
Thanks for this information I plan on keeping my keys from now on.

[Maria Jonas]

Yeah, you can put them in your scrap book, and keep them like everyone takes the pens and paper, lol

[Steven Featherstone]

I wont take any chances. Better to be safe than sorry by just cutting it up. More often than not I leave the key card in the room when I check out.

[Joseph Krause]

Everyone please check out the website below for more information about this situation.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp

This is an urban legend that has gained a lot more publicity than it probably should. Yes, personal information "could" be stored on a hotel key card, but contrary to this report, it usually is not. They have no reason to store that much information on a hotel key card, and most major hotel chains don't.

Mark, thanks for the info, I read the article at the website and it was very informative.

Joe Krause

[Joseph Krause]

Thank you Deborah for the post and thanks to Mike for the article at the website both were very interesting and informative. I think for me I will somehow protect myself where these keys are concerned and so should everyone else. Just in case.

Joe Krause

[Lynette Helsel]

:rolleyes:

[Joseph Krause]

:rolleyes:

Lynette,

In no way was I being sarcastic. I just believe with all that is going on today for idenity theft and what can be done with computers today that itis important to protect ourselves as much as possible.

Joe Krause

[Patrice-Maria Love]

Thanks for informing all of us about this senseless and unprofessional behavior the hotel industry portray by putting our personal information on the back of those keys. I will also inquire what do they put on those keys and if they tell the truth, I will ask them what is the purpose!

[Michael Harris]

Patrice-Marie,

You clearly did not read the entire thread. It does not happen. The system with your personal information and the system for key cards are not linked. This was bad information to begin with. Forget it. Go back and read everything carefully.

This could have been a test of your analytical abilities. Potential employers may be reading your posts.

[Richard Maxwell]

Thanks, Mark. Its nice to get the real facts on items like this. I had a friend send me an email last week about a sick five year old that he had sent me two years ago.

[Michael Harris]

Richard,

I am glad that you looked at the "snopes" site, but their information is bogus.

You need to do a little more investigation.

The bottom line - "It never happens."

[Ken Proffitt]

WOW :) Learn something new everyday :) thanks

[Michael Harris]

Ken,

I hope what you learned is that some things in print are just not true.

[Michael Runner]

WOW I had no idea. :eek:
I have seen info in hotels that saw they will charge $5 for keys not returned. What about carring a small magnet to run over the bar code before returning the key? I know... carring a magnet!!! add it to the list of gadgets. :D

[Richard Maxwell]

Michael, be sure to read into the forums. This is an urban legend/ hoax. Hotels don't put your CC and other personal info on these cards.

[Julie Mercer -]

Mark,
Thanks for the link. I am so glad that I read through all the threads before I responded. I feel better. I am getting ready to travel and I don't need to worry about my personal info on my hotel key. Insightful info.
Julie Mercer

[Michael Harris]

WOW I had no idea. :eek:
I have seen info in hotels that saw they will charge $5 for keys not returned. What about carring a small magnet to run over the bar code before returning the key? I know... carring a magnet!!! add it to the list of gadgets. :D
Michael,

I have stayed at far too many hotels and NONE of them was the least bit concerned that the key card was nt returned. They cost almost nothing and the only thing they can do is open ONE specific door and there is no way of determing which door.

Do not take so much at face value - you need to Investigate the urban myths by reading everything and by asking hotel employees and people who are frequent uses of the hotels.

[Mr. John Randolph]

I just thought of something else. I know alot of states have been using the Driver's License that look like they have a "credit card" style magnetic strip on the back.

I would presume that it contains vital information regarding not only DMV records, but other information as well.

Would this be vulnerable to the same type of possible "identity theft"?

[Stephanie Marvin]

Well it appears after reading the article that this problem only occured for a short while before correcting the problem. If it is still happening then it is most likely by an employee that doesn't know not to put all that info onto the card. The article also said if it is not a normal big name hotel chain then this could be going on but not likely. So I guess if you still have a fear, either have the clerk destroy it in front of your face, keep the card or try the magnet swiping technique. Thanks for the post this was very useful information. It is something to think about.

Stephanie Marvin

[Michael Runner]

Thanks for the lesson.

[Gary Eads]

No matter what type of security systems that are put into place to protect us, there are people who will figure out how to overcome them so all anyone can do is be as careful as possible. I think that all the media coverage about identity thief and so on just makes people more angry and paranoid than they already are, these are some of the real reasons that people are always so angry day to day.

[Michael Harris]

To Recent Posters:

Have you read the entire thread - from the first to the last? :confused:

[Sophia Shaw]

Thanks for posting that information on here, because like everyone else I was unaware of that. I also thought that they would charge you for not turning in the cards.

[Henry Stewart]

Hi,
Thanks to Mark Condon for the site he provided. The one thing I can say about the police putting this out in the first place, is we have been a step behind the crooks in the identity theft game, so why not put something out as a precautionary statement. It just makes you more aware. And for those who hold on to the hotel key cards, don't be surprised if someone gets suspicious of why you have them. It's not the hotels to fear but the people who use the blanks to further their crimes. It's all good info and like Mr. Harris says, read all the info and then draw the conclusion.

[David A Swift]

I am definetly glad that I like to read everything when info is put in front of me. I once inquired about that at my local hotel and they told me that they only put room number, a confirmation code (the code that unlocks the door) and date the card expires. I am glad that hotels aren't putting this type of info on our key cards and that this is truly a mistaken report.

Dave Swift

[April Rank]

Aha! Urban legands strike again!

On the other hand, we do need to be aware of one thing about those cards. They sometimes book the room twice by accident and someone can walk in on you with their own freshly coded key. So... be sure to bolt your door!

[Michael Harris]

April,

I pity the people who needed to be told to bolt the door. Anyone who does not, deserves grief.

How often does any hotel double book any given room in any year? Find the answer to that one.

[Lori Gilmore]

Whoa! I had no idea about this. Thanks. I have to travel several times a year with my full time job and I always turn the cards back in. I won't know. :eek:

[Michael Harris]

Lori,

Read ALL the posts in this thread. You missed the fact that this is NOT true.

[Jimmy Jordan -]

I've worked in the hotel industry for over 10 years. Every card key system that I've come in contact with has been separate from the computer terminal that you are registered on. The only information we had on a key was the room number and the expiration date. There may be new systems out that are integrating the two functions together which could be dangerous. Hopefully this is an isolated case with that chain.

I will tell you (could be helpful in an investigation) that the hotel can run an audit on key card locks. They can tell you every time the door was opened, at what time, and whose key opened it. (housekeeping, maintenance, guest etc.)

[Michael Harris]

I've worked in the hotel industry for over 10 years. Every card key system that I've come in contact with has been separate from the computer terminal that you are registered on. The only information we had on a key was the room number and the expiration date. There may be new systems out that are integrating the two functions together which could be dangerous. Hopefully this is an isolated case with that chain.

I will tell you (could be helpful in an investigation) that the hotel can run an audit on key card locks. They can tell you every time the door was opened, at what time, and whose key opened it. (housekeeping, maintenance, guest etc.)
Jimmy,

Your first paragrpah was good until you got to the last two sentences. The idea is to stop promoting bad information. You resolved the issue and then muddied the waters again.

There is no valid business reason to ever link the two systems. Hotels are subject to so much crime that they would have thought the issue through and not linked the systems. Besides not generating profit, that would suck them up.

As PIs or trainees, we have to start thinking through the issues. We have to read all the relevant information before speaking or writing. Too many are being short-sighted.

[Jimmy Jordan -]

I'm somewhat confused by your reply to my post. :confused:
If your referring to the last two sentences of the first paragraph, I was just making a statement that if they are linking the systems together, which is feasible, it could be dangerous. I agree that there is absolutely no reason for the link and it opens the door to "Identity Theft".

If you're referring to the second paragraph, the audit function, that's with a "stand alone" key card system. It doesn't need to be linked to the main computer.

It's possible (highly likely), ok, I confess :D I didn't read the entire thread before I responded. :( so I may have missed something that would explain the reply. In any case, I just wanted to apologize if I did "muddy the water". Being new to this field, you will find that I'm very receptive to constructive criticism, I consider it part of the training process.

[Michael Harris]

Jimmiy,

This is the inappropriate sentence:
There may be new systems out that are integrating the two functions together which could be dangerous.

we have been trying to let members know that making statements that clearly mislead people is not a good thing. Your understanding of the situation was well written. You should have stopped at that.

The info on the key card was pure urban legend. To amke a statement that new systems may have information was a bit irresponsible.

Too many of our members failed to read the entire thread before posting. The evidence is that this is and always was pure urban legend. The irresponsible DA who "claimed" to have seen this first-hand was making a political campaign speech and lied to everyone. That DA was mislead by irresponsible reports that leaked out of one police department - before the police could check on the validity of the story. A story - not based in fact.

People have been sued over statements that could do damage to someone's business.

Again, you do nt need to speculate, we only want what you know to be true. Hearsay is bad except when trying to chase down a lead - which is why the courts do not accept it.

[Daniel K Grubbs]

It almost seems more helpful to just eliminate this entire thread. There seems to be so much confusion over the matter. If you're worried about your information, just ask the hotel clerk to erase the card in front of you. If you're worried about getting a strange look from the clerk, you're not really worried about your information being stolen, are you?
Daniel K Grubbs

[Cleo Evans--]

HI,
About the SS #'s, I too; said they are used on everything--everywhere. They are not to be used as ID but yet that is exactly what organizations do. Sometimes blatenly refusing a person needed service and unless you are willing, able, and feel like putting up a disgruntled back-at-you type -No that isn't legal argument--most cave in and well there we go! Everyone knows my SS #.
I haven't had any response to my thoughts in the forum here somewhere about SS #'s. I put it as a new topic. I would have to hunt it down.
Beware is a good objective!

Hi Lynette!

I'll look for your thread on SS #'s. In the meantime, I just had an experience this summer about this very topic. I went
shopping at a well known clothing store at a mall and even
though I've had my card (balance paid) for 20 yrs at least,
they asked me for my SS#. I asked the clerk what the point
was and she said they had to have it to complete the trans-
action. I, of course refused. I used a different card.

What really got to me was the fact that the card was sent
to me without me ever having to give them my SS# in the
first place.

These days businesses are sending cards and checks for you
to use or deposit just to get their business. Once you use it
or deposit it...boom! You owe. Crazy!

Cleo

[Michael Harris]

...If you're worried about your information, just ask the hotel clerk to erase the card in front of you. ...
Daniel,

This will work if the clerk does not laugh in your face.

If I were a clerk knowing the truth, I would think you were nuts and tell you that the hotel protected your information and follow normal procedure. The hotel is not going to get upset if you fail to turn the key card back in. I lose them all the time and they just give me a new one - they have to confirm my room number from the registration system and then make the new card on the key card system.

[Michael Harris]

Cleo,

HR 2971 will make it illegal to use the SSN for anything except reporting and monitoring financial information. It will prevent PIs and LEOs from using the credit report header information and a host of other things that help investigations.

Right now, any merchant can demand your SSN if the merchant claims to need to check your credit before dealing with you. Right now, the SSN is overused and abused. If HR 2971 goes through, investigations of all types will take forever and cost a fortune.

Another case of good intentions without any real thought.

[Daniel K Grubbs]

:)
This will work if the clerk does not laugh in your face.
Well, yes, they may. However, I don't think hotel procedure is so stringent that they wouldn't do then what they do later anyway. Customer satisfaction is important in any service industry. I was just saying if your security is more important than some embarassment from a person you will likely never see again, then you won't mind asking. If not, then it wasn't really that important to you in the first place. If they say they can't, speaking with a manager would clear things up quickly I'm sure whether they actually erase it or assure you no personal information is on the card. I really don't see how people wouldn't be understanding of wanting to secure your personal information. I just make this point for people who still have doubts. You already have shown that hotels don't do this. Even if one or two had, I'm sure the bad publicity (warranted or not) quickly changed that.
Daniel K Grubbs

[Cleo Evans--]

Cleo,

HR 2971 will make it illegal to use the SSN for anything except reporting and monitoring financial information. It will prevent PIs and LEOs from using the credit report header information and a host of other things that help investigations.

Right now, any merchant can demand your SSN if the merchant claims to need to check your credit before dealing with you. Right now, the SSN is overused and abused. If HR 2971 goes through, investigations of all types will take forever and cost a fortune.

Another case of good intentions without any real thought

Michael,

Sounds a bit like a catch 22. I don't want my SS# going to just any Tom, Dick or Harry. But I can see where it will make it a little more difficult for the PI. Oh, well, the longer and
harder we work, the more money we make. :D I like that!!!

Thanks for the info...I didn't know about that.
Cleo

[Michael Harris]

Daniel,

I have a few suggestions for you.

1 - Start to think through the issues
2 - Start to think like an American business - do nothing that does not make a profit and do not spend money on antything that does make sound business sense.
3 - Go talk to hotels - not just clerks and supervisors

The bottom line is that you comments do not make much sense. The systems are not not and never have been. There is too much self-serving nonsense out there and you, as a PI trainee, need to start thinking like an investigator. You are too wishy-washy. Stop trying to appesase people.

[David A Swift]

Michael,

Sounds a bit like a catch 22. I don't want my SS# going to just any Tom, Dick or Harry. But I can see where it will make it a little more difficult for the PI. Oh, well, the longer and
harder we work, the more money we make. :D I like that!!!

Thanks for the info...I didn't know about that.
Cleo

I would actually beg to differ on that point. The more it takes for us to do our jobs the more we have to bill the client. If it becomes as hard as it will with the new law then what we charge our clients will have to significantly increase. Not many people will be willing to pay for the services that we provide if they do not see results for the money that they are spending. Therefore we could very well see PI jobs slowly phased out and Fugitive recovery become a very slow business. Look at it from the aspect of the people who are signing your paycheck. How much are your services worth to them and why should they start to pay you more to do the same job you were doing before when it takes you longer to do it?
Food for thought,
Dave Swift

[Michael Harris]

Dave,

You seem to understood the problem. Good for you. Cleo misunderstood and that could be a problem.

[Cleo Evans--]

Dave,

You seem to understood the problem. Good for you. Cleo misunderstood and that could be a problem.

Michael,

After reading Davids' comments above. I stand corrected! In
some markets, what I said may hold true. However, in this
case I can see where you could run the risk of pricing yourself right out of business.

I really need prctice on getting my thoughts across in a more thorough manner. :eek: I have a hundred thoughts in my head and trying to keep things short, I only get them partially into my typing. I will definitly work on that from now on. This is alot harder than discussing things face to face.

Thanks for the wake-up call!
Cleo

[Michael Harris]

To All:

Please read HR 2971. Please read the information about the bill in the current issue of PI Magazine. The bill will price PIs out of the middle-class market by denying PIs access to some of the lost-cost tools available right now. The bill will also make it harder for LEOs to do their jobs.

[Frederick Budde]

To All:

Please read HR 2971. Please read the information about the bill in the current issue of PI Magazine. The bill will price PIs out of the middle-class market by denying PIs access to some of the lost-cost tools available right now. The bill will also make it harder for LEOs to do their jobs.
Michael;
My understanding is that a compomise is being worked out for LEOs. Behind the scenes, of course, and might become a "gentleman's agreement", i.e., no change in the wording of the Bill.

[Michael Harris]

Michael;
My understanding is that a compomise is being worked out for LEOs. Behind the scenes, of course, and might become a "gentleman's agreement", i.e., no change in the wording of the Bill.
Fred,

that sounds illegal. Why would our government resort to an act like that if they could simply fix the bill to make sense?

[Frederick Budde]

Fred,

that sounds illegal. Why would our government resort to an act like that if they could simply fix the bill to make sense?
Michael;
I'm sure it's not the first time this has occured. It sure smacks of "selective enforcement" to me. Keep the PI's from getting the information, while letting the LEOs in the back door. Time will tell. If I get any additional information (besides rumours), I'll be sure to post them here. :cool:

[Michael Harris]

Fred,

See the related thread - http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?p=233601#post233601.

[Denise Garceau]

HOTEL ROOM INVASION

One of the more frightening and potentially dangerous crimes that can occur to a family or business traveler is a hotel room invasion. A hotel room invasion is when robbers force their way into an occupied hotel or motel room to commit a robbery or other crimes. It is frightening because it violates our private space and the one place that acts as our temporary sanctuary while away from home. Some travelers never recover from the experience of being assaulted while in a hotel room in a strange city.

Hotel room invasion is like the residential form of an automobile carjacking and it is on the rise. Like the crime of carjacking, most police agencies don’t track home or hotel room invasions as a separate crime. Most police agencies and the FBI will statistically record the crime as a residential burglary or a robbery. Without the ability to track the specific crime of hotel room invasion, little can be done to alert the public as to the frequency of occurrence in their community or devise a law enforcement plan of action to control it.

CRIMINAL PROFILE

Hotel burglars work mostly during the day and when a room is more likely to be unoccupied. Most burglars work alone and tend to probe a hotel looking for the right room and the right opportunity. Access control systems, good building design, strong locks and doors, and alert hotel staff can often deter burglars. Also, burglars don’t want to be confronted and will usually flee when approached. Most burglaries do not result in violence unless the criminal is cornered and uses force to escape.

Hotel room invasion robbers, in contrast, work more often at night when rooms are more likely to be occupied and less staff is on duty. The hotel room invaders usually target the occupant and room location and not necessarily the hotel. The selection process may include women traveling alone or senior citizens, or known drug dealers, for example. It is not unusual for a robber to follow the victim to their hotel room based on the value of the car they were driving or the jewelry or clothes they were wearing. Hotel room invaders usually work alone or with just one accomplice and they rely on an overwhelming physical confrontation to gain control and instill fear in the occupants. The violence usually occurs during the initial confrontation with a blow to the head and the hotel room invaders often come equipped with handcuffs, rope, tape, and weapons. Some hotel room robbers appear to enjoy the intimidation, domination, and violence and some claim it’s a "rush." Some hotel robbers are also opportunist rapist and may sexually assault their female victims.

DANGEROUS TRENDS

The act of committing a hotel room invasion is escalating much like carjacking. The reason for the increase seems to follow a similar pattern. Much like automobiles, the traditional commercial targets for robbers have hardened themselves against criminal attack. Technology has allowed commercial establishments to install affordable video surveillance systems, silent alarms, and other anti-crime deterrent devices.

Hotel room robbers know that they won't have to overcome alarm systems, when the room is occupied, or be worried about video cameras and silent alarms. Guest room robbers have privacy once inside and don’t have to deal with hotel staff or other guests who might suddenly appear or random security patrols. Once the offenders take control of a guest room, they can force the occupants to open room safes, locate hidden valuables, supply keys to the family car, and PIN numbers to their ATM cards. Guest room robbers will increase their escape time by disabling the phones and sometimes leave their victims bound or incapacitated. It is not unheard of for robbers to load up the victim’s car with valuables and drive away without anyone in the neighborhood taking notice.

METHOD OF OPERATION

The most common point of attack is through the guest room door or patio door. Sometimes the hotel room invaders will simply kick open the door and confront everyone inside. More common is when the hotel room invaders knock on the door first. The room invader hopes that the occupant will simply open the door, without question, in response to their knock. Unfortunately, many people do just that.

Guest room robbers will sometimes use a ruse or impersonation to get you to open the door. They have been known to pretend to be room service, housekeeping, security, or delivering flowers. Clever room robbers might hold a room service tray or flowers in view of the peephole to further the impersonation. Once the door is opened for them, the hotel room invaders will use an explosive amount of force and threats to gain control of the room and produce fear in the victims. Once the occupants are under control, the robbers will begin to collect your portable valuables.

PREVENTION STEPS

The same tactics used to prevent daytime burglaries will go a long way to preventing forced entry hotel robberies. If you can delay a guest room invader at the point of entry then you have a chance of deterring them or calling the police. A solid core door and strong locks with reinforced strike plates will stop most forced entries. Select a hotel room on an upper floor when available. Ground floor rooms are most vulnerable because of ease of escape. Guest rooms adjacent to fire stairs are also selected more often by robbers for use in a rapid escape. The weakest hotel security link is the room guest who fails to lock doors or windows or who will open the door without question at the sound of a knock.

The best defense against hotel room invasion is education and planning. If you frequently travel to same city on business, select and stay with the same hotel or chain if you are satisfied with their security amenities. Parents should hold a family meeting to discuss how to answer the door when someone knocks. Another important topic is how to act should your room be invaded. Once you know how hotel robbers work, you can effectively prevent most occurrences.

Remember these important security steps:

Make sure your room has solid doors, locks, and peephole

Request a room on the third floor or above

Change rooms or hotel if not secure or locks are worn

Request a room away from fire stairs or end units

Lock all doors and windows at all times

Use the door peephole to see who is knocking

Never use a chain-latch to partially open the door

Never open the door to strangers or solicitors

Call the police or front desk if the stranger acts suspicious

Call the front desk if someone claims to be with the hotel

Hold a family meeting to discuss hotel room security

[Christian Udotai]

Deborah,

I am really flabergastered at this great and priceless information you offer us. Do you know how many millions of dollars you have saved some families across the globe? Little did I know about this hotel key cards containing such valuable info. You are a life saver. THANKS.

Christian :)

[Michael Harris]

Christian,

Guess what - they do not contain any information other than room number code.

You failed to read enough of the thread. Not a good start for a PI trainee.

[Ricki Smith]

Thanks for the insight Mark, I think we all read things and feel they must be true if we got them from a "reputable" place but not all are!! Always good to look deeper!! Hmmmm and we are supposed to PI's looking for the "correct" info!! :D

[Amalia Martinelli]

That's great to know Deborah. I always thought they charged you for the cards. So when you go and check out and they ask for your card, what are you supposed to say to them? I'm not giving it back cause it has all of MY private information? :confused:

[Michael Harris]

Amalia,

The key cards contain nothing other than the code for the rom - not even the room number is on the key card. You need to read the entire thread.

I lose the key cards all the time and sometimes I go home with them. No one cares. The key cards are safe - again, read all the posts.

[Amalia Martinelli]

Sorry about that Michael. I guess I'll have to pay better attention next time. :)

[Cassandra Pack]

Deborah,

Its ironic, I just checked out of the Double Tree hotel yesterday for business. As I look back I've always place my key card on the counter for express check-out and usually have the hotle send me my reciept. This was extremely helpful. :)

Cassandra Pack



Identity Theft

Southern California law enforcement professionals assigned to detect new threats to personal security issues, recently discovered what type of information is embedded in the credit card type hotel room keys used through-out the industry.

Although room keys differ from hotel to hotel, a key obtained from the "Double Tree" chain that was being used for a regional Identity Theft Presentation was found to contain the following information:
* * Customer?s (your) name
* Customer?s partial home address
* Hotel room number
* Check in date and check out date
* Customers (your) credit card number and expiration date!

When you turn them in to the front desk your personal information is there for any employee to access by simply scanning the card in the hotel scanner. An employee can take a hand full of cards home and using a scanning device, access the information onto a laptop computer and go shopping at your expense.

Simply put, hotels do not erase these cards until an employee issues the card to the next hotel guest. It is usually kept in a drawer at the front desk with YOUR INFORMATION ON IT!!!!

The bottom line is, keep the cards or destroy them! NEVER leave them behind and NEVER turn them in to the front desk when you check out of a room. They will not charge you for the card.

Information courtesy of: Sergeant K. Jorge,
Detective Sergeant,
Pasadena Police Department

Additional information has been received advising that there have been cases in Canada in which suspects were using information taken from these card keys to download debit and credit information and with a stolen pin, clean out people's account. Many more of these cases are ongoing throughout Canada.

(Information source: Texas Department of Public Safety)

[Ada Baciu]

Wow Michael, exactly how many times did you have to say "This is not true...it's a hoax." ? To be honest my first instinct after reading the first 2 pages was to reply also, but I wanted to see where this was going. It sounded to unreal. Why would the hotels put all that info on? It just isn't a logical thing to do.
I checked out this thread a while ago and it was closed. How come it is open again?

[Verleria Watson]

I agree. This is not true! When you check in & out there is nothing on that door key except a code. I loose them all the time. If you are talking about a credit card I understand, but it never holds true for a door key. Unless this is something new??
Verleria

[Michael Harris]

Cassandra,

Shame on you. The story you quoted was/is bogus! You have perpetuated a harmful myth. What you should have done was read the entire thread before commenting.

If I were a PI agency reading in the forums looking for people to hire as trainees, I would not look at someone who is too quick to make and voice assumptions.

[Dominic Iannucci -]

Glad to hear that this was a false alarm. I too, leave those things at the counter. Anyway, if you think that is bad, in the military we have now been forced to give DNA samples and have been issued these new identification cards with a microchip in them. They contain all kind of information in them. On the one hand, it seems like a good idea, but exactly how many people have access to that information, I'm not quite sure. Oh well, it's the military. What can you do?

[Cynthia Keating]

Cassandra,

Shame on you. The story you quoted was/is bogus! You have perpetuated a harmful myth. What you should have done was read the entire thread before commenting.

If I were a PI agency reading in the forums looking for people to hire as trainees, I would not look at someone who is too quick to make and voice assumptions.

Michael,

Thanks for clearing this up. I was about to do so myself. I've been in the Hotel industry for a long time and stories like this make me cringe. :rolleyes:

Cindy

[Michael Harris]

Cindy,

It is nice to get confirmation every now and then.

I think that, sometimes, we are far too gullible. At the same time, we have an obligation to NOT spread misinformation.

[Roberta A Bryant]

Identity Theft

Southern California law enforcement professionals assigned to detect new threats to personal security issues, recently discovered what type of information is embedded in the credit card type hotel room keys used through-out the industry.

Although room keys differ from hotel to hotel, a key obtained from the "Double Tree" chain that was being used for a regional Identity Theft Presentation was found to contain the following information:
* * Customer?s (your) name
* Customer?s partial home address
* Hotel room number
* Check in date and check out date
* Customers (your) credit card number and expiration date!

When you turn them in to the front desk your personal information is there for any employee to access by simply scanning the card in the hotel scanner. An employee can take a hand full of cards home and using a scanning device, access the information onto a laptop computer and go shopping at your expense.

Simply put, hotels do not erase these cards until an employee issues the card to the next hotel guest. It is usually kept in a drawer at the front desk with YOUR INFORMATION ON IT!!!!

The bottom line is, keep the cards or destroy them! NEVER leave them behind and NEVER turn them in to the front desk when you check out of a room. They will not charge you for the card.

Information courtesy of: Sergeant K. Jorge,
Detective Sergeant,
Pasadena Police Department

Additional information has been received advising that there have been cases in Canada in which suspects were using information taken from these card keys to download debit and credit information and with a stolen pin, clean out people's account. Many more of these cases are ongoing throughout Canada.

(Information source: Texas Department of Public Safety)

After reading this information over a month ago I started taking our hotel keys with us my husband thought I was crazy until I showed him the post now he is the first one to put the key in his pocket. We are going to make suvieners of our travels out of them. I collect the soaps and shampoos he collects the keys. I just call him the keeper of the keys ;)
Roberta Bryant

[Frederick Budde]

After reading this information over a month ago I started taking our hotel keys with us my husband thought I was crazy until I showed him the post now he is the first one to put the key in his pocket. We are going to make suvieners of our travels out of them. I collect the soaps and shampoos he collects the keys. I just call him the keeper of the keys ;)
Roberta Bryant
Roberta;
Please read the previous postings! There is no need to "liberate" the hotel keys :)

[Patti Schubert -]

I was unaware of that much information was on those cards. Next time I'll be taking it home with me. That is very important to know. Thanks! ;)

Patti

[Michael Harris]

Pattis,

SHAME on you! You failed to read the entire thread. The only information on the key card is the information required to open your door. There is no personal information on the card. I doubt that the name of the hotel is available on the card.

You have to start reading and thinking things through. :eek:

[Patti Schubert -]

I did read the whole article, apparently I misunderstood it!

Patti

[Michael Harris]

Patti,

Did you read the article or the entire thread (being the set of posts under this topic)?

The original reporting of the key cards was a mistake on the part of the police. They did not investigate anything until the story had leaked. The DA or ADA who "witnessed" an example probalbly lied to make some political point.

The cards have never held personal information. If you think about it, why would a hotel waste money on a system that gains them nothing and opens them to liability? The answer is that no one would do that. Also, no company would make such an item without having customers lined up.

A final thought. If the keys had value, the hotels would demand them back. Since they do not care if you walk away with a handful, they must not have any value.

[Frederick Budde]

I checked with the department responsible for booking flights, hotels and cars for thousands of government employees, and they assured me Michael Harris is correct. Indeed, many of us travel "incognito" in the course of business, and the Agency makes sure no information is compromised. To summarize: There is not now, nor has there ever been, any information on the electronic key cards!

[Patti Schubert -]

Michael,

I read the article, not the thread. I do very little and I mean very little traveling. I have no idea what their policies are. I thought these were learning forums and to learn off each other. I've learned something and that is a good thing. I thought we were here to help, guide, and suggest to each other and not to slam someone. I've learned a valuable lesson today and that it is not always true.

Patti

[George Shaw]

Wow, I did not know that hotels were encoding the cards with the customer information. I will definately inform as many people as I can to this and will never, ever turn in a card key at a hotel again

[Michael Harris]

Wow, I did not know that hotels were encoding the cards with the customer information. I will definately inform as many people as I can to this and will never, ever turn in a card key at a hotel again
George,

SHAME on you. The information is is absolutely FALSE. Yes, I am shouting.

You failed to read enough of the thread to find out the truth. A serious investigator would have read the entire thread before forming an opinion.

Spreading false stories like this will not do your reputation any good.

[George Shaw]

:eek: I found that out about 2 min after I posted the the reply.

[Gregory Almas]

Thanks For The Info . Ill Pass it Along Since I Work In The Airline Industry.

[Chad Haltom]

Unless the source of the information your reading is viable, I would be hesitant on passing it on in the forums.

sorry


Chad Haltom

[Michael Harris]

Chad,

I assume that you were responding to Gregory's comment. You have expressed it very well.

[Flora Porter]

George,

SHAME on you. The information is is absolutely FALSE. Yes, I am shouting.

You failed to read enough of the thread to find out the truth. A serious investigator would have read the entire thread before forming an opinion.

Spreading false stories like this will not do your reputation any good.
Good morning Mike,
How can he say something like that? :confused:
and He wants to be a PI :mad:

[Michael Harris]

Flora,

I think that IPIU has gtown so fast since I joined that the Moderators, et al cannot keep up with the new members and instruct them the way I was instructed.

I was told to read about 15 threads - end to end before making any comments. Some of the new people do not realize that this is a professional forum with the best behavior for this kind of communication.

Some of our new members do not realize that potential employers might be reading the posts in here to see who has the right mental attitude for investigative work.

Some of us have been burned by speaking before we knew what was going on (I have not had too many of these episodes in the last few decades).

As trainees in investigation, we have to learn to investigate before doing anyting.

This topic should have died down, but some members still have not read enough.

[Gregory Almas]

ILL Never Do That One Again .Lesson Learned.But IN This Day In Age Anything is posible.Like You Can Buy Card Re Writers On The Internet And Re Write Satelite Tv Cards.Two Guys In Michigan Got Caught Sitting Outside OF a major Hardware With A Laptop And a Wirelees Router Collecting Credit Card Info.

[Michael Harris]

Gregory,

I am not sure what you just wrote; your use of capitals is not the way we write in US English.

If I read the post correctly, you said that you believed that the hotel key cards contained personal information. If that is the case, please read the entire thread from the first post (bad info) to the last post. Or you might want to read the post immediately before yours.

There is no personal information on hotel key cards. The hotels do not spend money for things that do not have value to them. The hotel key card contains only enough information to open the lock on the right hotel room door. The reservation system, the credit card system, and the hotel key card system are not connected and do not talk to each other.

I have been harsh on many of our members who do not read entire threads before commenting. Consider this your harsh message.

Several things can happen when potential employers read your posts: Your writing style can turn them off (or impress them)
Your demonstrated lack of thoroughness in following the threads can curn them off
Your inability to think logically can turn them off

[Gregory Almas]

I just read a interesting artical on this topic about hotel keys. The original owner of this message down played it a bit .The keys he says can be coded by mistake since the employes have access to your private information.The story got crossed up with another story about gang members being caught with hotel card keys that where being put through a card writer .Which in turn where re writen with stolen credit card numbers debit card numberes etc etc. www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/hotelkey.asp

[Chad Haltom]

Gregory,

I guess all we are saying is may be you should have taken a different approach. For Example.

Hey,

I found an interesting article on Key Cards that might be informational. Please give me your feed back on this particular subject.

The artical can be found at Http://www.snops.com/warnings/hotelkey.asp


Try this approach and let me know if it works for you.

Sorry we still love ya,

Chad

[Chad Haltom]

Gregory,

It is comon that one article can be confused for another. It is important that you Re-read the longer articles. I found this helps in understanding the differences in the two "Stories". Also be careful, a story is more times than not false or fabricated to misslead....Rely on the truth and facts. It is not always writen as so.


My suggestion is READ READ READ. I have read five weeks worth of threads and I still have only replied to 18. I know this is a low number but we as trainee's must use this forum as a tool to learn. There are alot of people such as Michael and others that have vast knowledge. This may be experience in the real word as well as in this forum. Either way we have to soak it all up like a sponge.

We are only as good as our last investigation!

[Michael Harris]

To All:

Be careful of Snopes, they are wrong as often as they are right. The hotel key cards are coded from a machine that does not interface with any other system. The information you have is bogus.

In regard to personal information, I was in Livonia, MI (looking at up-armored HMMWV option kits) last week and the hotel (with a major chain) did not even take my personal information. I stay at a number of places that do not ask for home address - just an office phone number.

Hotels are not concerned with tracking the guests. Hotel key cards are safe.

[Gregory Almas]

Thanks chad and michael as a trainee ive learned alot from you two gentlmen the last few days thanks for the insight and information.

[Gregory Almas]

Thanks again michaeal and chad for your information.i learned alot from the forums and you two the last couple days.but on everyday basic it might not contain your information .but your personal information can be stolen and be encrypted on a hotel card.granted you where in livonia michigan a few weeks ago but again you said they took down no personel info for your stay there but they had to take a credit card number down for you to stay there which would be personel information from you or the company you represent.

[Michael Harris]

Gregory,

My personal information can be stolen, but how do you put it on a hotel key card?

The credit card information is in one system and the key card information is in another one with no physical or electrical connection.

I grant that the bad guys out there will try anything, but some things are just not worth the effot. Example: counterfeiting $1, $5, and $10 bank notes (US currency) cost more than the value of the note.

The biggest source of stoen personal and financial information is from your employer.

[Gregory Almas]

-MICHAEL-
Your personal information can be stolen out of the computer from a hotel mainframe reservation system. And be taken to an information rewriter(available on internet)which can then be reprogrammed onto a hotel key card.I'm not talking about the physical or electrical connection, I am saying that the information stolen can be reprogrammed and shared with others.
Therefore, your information CAN be stolen from the hotel system, and then programmed into the card rewriter to the hotel key card.Even if they are not in the same system, the information CAN be obtained from on system and transferred to another.
There's always a few percent of dishonest employees that could pass on the information to corrupt people's credit.

[Gregory Almas]

micheal go on e bay .type in card re writers theres about fifty for sale

[Gregory Almas]

I still say your right on hotel keys dont contain your personel information .but what im saying theres that dishonest few which can take your personel information and pass it along to a person that has a card re writer and encrypt it on a blank hotel key card and use it for personel gain thats all.I apreciate all the support that you have given me and others. I enjoy the ipiu forums they are very helpful .Heres a interesting link on card rewriters .www.koutech.com.I just like to keep a open mind on anything is possible thats all.

[Chad Haltom]

There are two things wrong with this. First off if there are people out there that want to steal my information Name address and phone number from the hotel reservation system manager than okay no harm done. But in no case in no way shape or form is the cards that the hotel gives to open the room doors capable of being re-writen in a way to do anything other than open a hotel room door. The hotel industry has checked the system. The hotel room card keys use a numbered system with pulse activation. The number of ones and zero's in the correct order omit a pulse activating the entry system. They change the number codes. And if they do not its because that card is specific to that room. This information was given to me by my Uncle who is the owner and operater of Hyatt Regency Hotel in Philadelphia Pa. Also Any one who goes to the mall or shops at a gas station can have there information stolen. There are alot of people in the world that are criminal in nature. I have to believe in the good nature of man. To go through life looking over your shoulder will make you a hard shelled person. This is just my thoughts no harm no fowl.

[Michael Harris]

To All:

Please address your comments to the writer of the post to which your response is aimed. This helps us avoid any misunderstandings.

Chad,

Thank you. That was a nice expanation.

[Chad Haltom]

Michael,

Sorry and Thank you. I actually had to ask my uncle because this topic bothered me in a way I can't describe.


Chad

[Michael Harris]

Chad,

The concept bothered me enough to spend 20 hours doing some research. Now that I know that I am safe using the hotel key cards, I only get bothered by the members who do not read far enough in the thread to find the truth.

Extend our thanks to your uncle.

[Tiffany Eichor]

Wow! I had no idea. I don't stay in hotels much but I always give the card back. I really like the magnet suggestion though. And, I will pass this on to my parents. In the last four years they have taken several cruises and I think have one planned for this year as well. Thanks.

[Tiffany Eichor]

Chad,

The concept bothered me enough to spend 20 hours doing some research. Now that I know that I am safe using the hotel key cards, I only get bothered by the members who do not read far enough in the thread to find the truth.

Extend our thanks to your uncle.


Thank you Michael. I guess I was so surprised that I forgot to keep reading.

[Michael Harris]

Tiffany,

You learned a lesson today. We alll need to read to the end before making judgments. I am guilty of this, but not as often as in the past.

[DJ Moran]

Thanks for those of you who have put this issue to rest, I have seen this post, since the beginning, however, this is the first I have read it.

When I read the first post, I'm sorry, I laughed a little. :p
I travel a couple time a year, and never did such nonsense cross my mind. :rolleyes:

Even, if they could try to do something of this nature, :rolleyes: Do you know how fast this would hit the media?? ;) Really FAST!! and we all would have already known about it!! :p
This thread, really shows the importance of reading all the information that is available, before making judgement. ;)

I did have one situation concerning hotels, Once, I was asked to let them copy my drivers licenses!! :eek: NO WAY did that happen!!! :p They said it was policy, well, I told them what they could do with their policy!! :rolleyes: We did not stay there. That was their loss.$$$$$. It only happened once and never again. ;) Thanks for sharing ALL the information."DJ"

[Michael Harris]

DJ,

I have provided positive ID using my DL, but I have never had anyone ask to make a copy of it.

However, in Europe, I have had to surrender my passport for the night.

[DJ Moran]

DJ,

I have provided positive ID using my DL, but I have never had anyone ask to make a copy of it.

However, in Europe, I have had to surrender my passport for the night.

Michael, I'll tell you, I was so surprised, :eek: I was almost a loss for words, you did notice I said "Almost". :eek: I have been to probably 42 of the fifty states, on vacation, and NEVER, had anyone ask for my drivers licenses. And to REQUIRE a copy of them,,,,,,RED FLAG!!!

As I have never been out of the country, I'll just bet that it can be a "pain", especially after 9/11. I know airports and such, have had to really Beef up security. :) All I know, is that I will never give a Hotel a copy of my drivers licenses, I'll buy a really nice "Motor Home first!! :eek: :p "DJ"

[Michael Harris]

DJ,

Your experience sounds like Vacation and not Business. I frequent hotels in areas where there are lots of government facilities. Most hotels should confirm ID upon check-in. Almost every hotel where I have stayed has asked for auto information also - a liability issue.

For those of us who travel for business or for government, we know that discounts are available for certain groups. Government rates require government ID, etc.

Trade shows and professional society symposia often require proof of membership or proof of attendance at the function.

We travel in different circles. What is a "vacation"?

[Michael Harris]

DJ, et al,

I suspect that positive ID will be required for most functions in this country very soon.

A drivers license is the easiest form to require. If you do not drive, an ABC or age of majority card will work (other name exist elsewhere).

You cannot open a bank account without two forms of ID. I may have mentioned it in another forum, but my not-quite-18 year-old daughter could not open an account in her own name. We had to have a joint account. I had to provide two IDs (even though everyone in the bank knows me and my daughter and I have 8 other accounts with the bank and I run almost $100,000 thought the bank each year). My daughter also needed two IDs - tough for a high-school student! I believe that the Patriot Act is responsible for that.

National DL is in the future. Bar codes of SSN tatooed on the back of our necks (I have seen that twice - but not required by government).

I have a governemnt CAC card with ID and a database - public key encryption, etc.

Where are we headed?

[DJ Moran]

DJ, et al,

I suspect that positive ID will be required for most functions in this country very soon.

A drivers license is the easiest form to require. If you do not drive, an ABC or age of majority card will work (other name exist elsewhere).

You cannot open a bank account without two forms of ID. I may have mentioned it in another forum, but my not-quite-18 year-old daughter could not open an account in her own name. We had to have a joint account. I had to provide two IDs (even though everyone in the bank knows me and my daughter and I have 8 other accounts with the bank and I run almost $100,000 thought the bank each year). My daughter also needed two IDs - tough for a high-school student! I believe that the Patriot Act is responsible for that.

National DL is in the future. Bar codes of SSN tatooed on the back of our necks (I have seen that twice - but not required by government).

I have a governemnt CAC card with ID and a database - public key encryption, etc.

Where are we headed?

First Michael, Let's cover, "What is a vacation?"

Well now, vacation is when on a Friday nite, you are watching TV, and you are looking at the significant other, and not saying much, and one of you, "out of the blue" says to the other, "Hey, Lets go to TN. KY, IN, or somewhere," just because you both don't have to go back to work, until the following Tuesday. And you DO it!!! Vacation!!!!!! :D

Another, Is when you plan all year, to leave for CO, and get in the family car, and leave on the designated day, and come back 2 weeks later, putting 6000 miles on the car, and seeing unbelievable things in say maybe 6 states, which you had not been to previously. :D
And one final example, The dream Vacation, will be a Cruise, (no less than 9 days) or Hawaii, for at least 2 weeks. This one is being planned for the 35 year anniversary.

Now, in answering your question as to where this is heading, You sound like something I had said to my boss,one day at work, I asked him, "When do we get out implants?", he looked at me weird, and said What?. :eek: I said well look, if they want us to be robots, then why don't they just give us brain implants that they can program.
I understand the concept of safety, however, when my daughter moved back from KS. (In Army 7 years, Worked for the Federal Government, and was a Police Officer, ) well, for her to get car insurance here, was a nitemare, and a bank account, was unbelievable!!! So, You tell me where are we headed!!!!!! :eek: Scary, isn't it!!! :eek: :eek: ;) I hope we never get to the point of SS# on the back of our necks!! :eek: Although, my daughter's ss# in on her false teeth!!! :eek: :p Army thing! ;) "DJ"

[Frederick Budde]

Thanks for those of you who have put this issue to rest, I have seen this post, since the beginning, however, this is the first I have read it.

When I read the first post, I'm sorry, I laughed a little. :p
I travel a couple time a year, and never did such nonsense cross my mind. :rolleyes:

Even, if they could try to do something of this nature, :rolleyes: Do you know how fast this would hit the media?? ;) Really FAST!! and we all would have already known about it!! :p
This thread, really shows the importance of reading all the information that is available, before making judgement. ;)

I did have one situation concerning hotels, Once, I was asked to let them copy my drivers licenses!! :eek: NO WAY did that happen!!! :p They said it was policy, well, I told them what they could do with their policy!! :rolleyes: We did not stay there. That was their loss.$$$$$. It only happened once and never again. ;) Thanks for sharing ALL the information."DJ"
DJ;
Were you attempting to pay by check, perhaps?

[DJ Moran]

DJ;
Were you attempting to pay by check, perhaps?

Frederick, Not a chance!! I probably would not thought so much about it, it had been paying by check. I never do that when out of state. :eek: Matter of fact, I paid CASH!! "DJ"

[Michael Harris]

DJ,

The government (esp. DOD) ID cards with SSN are a real pain. As a Notary Public, I cannot enter that ID number in my journal. I always enter a number in my journal - with DLs, I have to record Issue Date Expiration Date, State of issue, and DL number. I also have the individual sign my journal and provide a right thumbprint (flat, not rolled print). Then I look at the document and record its title. Only then do I let them sign so I can notarize.

Back to IDs and tracking numbers. DOD is moving away from the SSN for a variety of reasons. A prime reason is GLBA - Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), which is also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.

The Patriot Act which was conceived with good intentions (good intentions are the paving material in the Road to Hell). The Act was ill-prepared. It would not be so bad if it had an expiration.

These are the things that drive firms to ask for some much ID. Some companies ask for information that they think will protect them form law suits - actually, those are the things that trigger them.

We need to becareful that we do not get too far off-topic. The issue of what information is contained on hotel key cards (nothing but room number) is only the beginning.

[Kenneth Owens -]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea that hotels did that. I will definately keep in mind about the card keys.

[Michael Harris]

Kenneth,

Your comment leads me to believe that you didnot read enough of the thread to get to the truth.

Please read ALL the posts in order. The hotel key cards contain nothing but the code to open a specific door.

[Flora Porter]

DJ,

The government (esp. DOD) ID cards with SSN are a real pain. As a Notary Public, I cannot enter that ID number in my journal. I always enter a number in my journal - with DLs, I have to record Issue Date Expiration Date, State of issue, and DL number. I also have the individual sign my journal and provide a right thumbprint (flat, not rolled print). Then I look at the document and record its title. Only then do I let them sign so I can notarize.

Back to IDs and tracking numbers. DOD is moving away from the SSN for a variety of reasons. A prime reason is GLBA - Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), which is also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.

The Patriot Act which was conceived with good intentions (good intentions are the paving material in the Road to Hell). The Act was ill-prepared. It would not be so bad if it had an expiration.

These are the things that drive firms to ask for some much ID. Some companies ask for information that they think will protect them form law suits - actually, those are the things that trigger them.

We need to becareful that we do not get too far off-topic. The issue of what information is contained on hotel key cards (nothing but room number) is only the beginning.
Good morning Micheal,

Thanks for clearig this up. Had me :confused: a bit.


PI FPorter

[Frederick Budde]

Kenneth,

Your comment leads me to believe that you didnot read enough of the thread to get to the truth.

Please read ALL the posts in order. The hotel key cards contain nothing but the code to open a specific door.

Good morning, Michael.
I guess you have been put in charge of clarification of this thread :) Keep up the good work, and have a great day!

[Michael Harris]

Yes, personal information "could" be stored on a hotel key card, but contrary to this report, it usually is not. They have no reason to store that much information on a hotel key card, and most major hotel chains don't.
Mark,

I am not sure that this is possible. The systems with your information (the registratino and billing system) and the key card system are not interconnected. The cards might be able to be encoded with personal information, but not from the key card encoders.

The police department that leaked this before checking it out has apologized (sort of). The self-serving prosecutor who claims to have seen this was lying for political gain.

[Barbara Dyer-Bennet]

I have been to probably 42 of the fifty states, on vacation, and NEVER, had anyone ask for my drivers licenses. And to REQUIRE a copy of them,,,,,,RED FLAG!!!
[. . .]
:) All I know, is that I will never give a Hotel a copy of my drivers licenses, I'll buy a really nice "Motor Home first!! :eek: :p "DJ"
Hi DJ,

I understand your frustration, and I know you would run into the same thing where I work, too. I work in a hotel in Minnesota, and we are required by law to take a copy of a guest's driver's license if they want to pay in cash... I think it's probably because the state feels it has an interest in not allowing people to be anonymous when staying in hotels. When you pay by credit card or check, they have a way of tracing the person who was in a particular room later if they need to. You might be surprised to learn of all of the things people use hotels (even nice ones) for besides "legitimate" reasons! We just had the police come and demand to know what room a guest was in last month, and after making sure that we were required to tell them, we disclosed the information. The police found a propane tank and several chemicals they were planning to use to make methamphetamine in the room when they arrested the occupant on a different warrant. He hadn't started "cooking" yet, luckily... that might have blown the whole place sky-high, not to mention causing fairly nasty contamination requiring extensive cleanup. I was the one who checked this guest in, and I never would have guessed that he was doing that, even though I am generally pretty good at spotting things.

When you lease an apartment, at least in my state, you have to fill out an extensive application and criminal background check. Hotels are no different, and actually "should" be more careful, due to the transient nature of their customers. It might be a serious pain to try to rent a room and stay undercover, though... maybe it would be a good idea to get a motorhome if one didn't want to give up one's identity and didn't want to always stay in really run-down places where the propietors might be less likely to ask for a copy of one's ID. Unfortunately with the latter option, one runs the risk of catching something other than what one is after ;-)

My fiancee and I had to leave our Driver's licenses with the office of 9 out of 10 apartment communities we looked at this past month, because these places' insurance required it for security reasons. The background investigations we had to submit to were almost as bad as the one I underwent when I got an Indian gaming license back in the early 90's. We certainly aren't living in the same world I grew up in.

Regards,
B. Dyer-Bennet

p.s. --> I have one little suggestion that might help you with the cash thing... If a hotel is running Opera software (as quite a few do), you can give them a credit card when you check in and then pay in cash when you check out. If you ask them to delete the credit card info at this time, they will usually do it without question, and most will not think to get a copy of your driver's license upon checkout. There is no way to recover the credit card number if you have them delete it from your profile in that software, unless you do something really bad in the room and they call their support people to get it back from the backup tape, which is generally overwritten after a week. Personally, this is a level of risk I would feel comfortable with, but I don't know your specific situation. Most branded hotels have more to lose than to gain by violating your privacy, and their employees are generally not interested in messing with the guests, nor are they technically proficient enough to do you any real damage. I could make a mess of someone's stuff, having been a programmer and having a decent grasp of relational databases, but I am but a humble student now and working in the industry so that I can have time to study during the night audit shift.

I hope that some of this has been helpful... good luck to you! http://www.ipiu.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Frederick Budde]

Great answer, Barbara! Thanks for the information and suggestions.

[DJ Moran]

Hi DJ,

I understand your frustration, and I know you would run into the same thing where I work, too. I work in a hotel in Minnesota, and we are required by law to take a copy of a guest's driver's license if they want to pay in cash... I think it's probably because the state feels it has an interest in not allowing people to be anonymous when staying in hotels. When you pay by credit card or check, they have a way of tracing the person who was in a particular room later if they need to. You might be surprised to learn of all of the things people use hotels (even nice ones) for besides "legitimate" reasons! We just had the police come and demand to know what room a guest was in last month, and after making sure that we were required to tell them, we disclosed the information. The police found a propane tank and several chemicals they were planning to use to make methamphetamine in the room when they arrested the occupant on a different warrant. He hadn't started "cooking" yet, luckily... that might have blown the whole place sky-high, not to mention causing fairly nasty contamination requiring extensive cleanup. I was the one who checked this guest in, and I never would have guessed that he was doing that, even though I am generally pretty good at spotting things.

When you lease an apartment, at least in my state, you have to fill out an extensive application and criminal background check. Hotels are no different, and actually "should" be more careful, due to the transient nature of their customers. It might be a serious pain to try to rent a room and stay undercover, though... maybe it would be a good idea to get a motorhome if one didn't want to give up one's identity and didn't want to always stay in really run-down places where the propietors might be less likely to ask for a copy of one's ID. Unfortunately with the latter option, one runs the risk of catching something other than what one is after ;-)

My fiancee and I had to leave our Driver's licenses with the office of 9 out of 10 apartment communities we looked at this past month, because these places' insurance required it for security reasons. The background investigations we had to submit to were almost as bad as the one I underwent when I got an Indian gaming license back in the early 90's. We certainly aren't living in the same world I grew up in.

Regards,
B. Dyer-Bennet

p.s. --> I have one little suggestion that might help you with the cash thing... If a hotel is running Opera software (as quite a few do), you can give them a credit card when you check in and then pay in cash when you check out. If you ask them to delete the credit card info at this time, they will usually do it without question, and most will not think to get a copy of your driver's license upon checkout. There is no way to recover the credit card number if you have them delete it from your profile in that software, unless you do something really bad in the room and they call their support people to get it back from the backup tape, which is generally overwritten after a week. Personally, this is a level of risk I would feel comfortable with, but I don't know your specific situation. Most branded hotels have more to lose than to gain by violating your privacy, and their employees are generally not interested in messing with the guests, nor are they technically proficient enough to do you any real damage. I could make a mess of someone's stuff, having been a programmer and having a decent grasp of relational databases, but I am but a humble student now and working in the industry so that I can have time to study during the night audit shift.

I hope that some of this has been helpful... good luck to you! http://www.ipiu.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Barbara, Thanks for your input, however, I will allow any one to view, my drivers licenses, just NOT take copies of it. :eek: :( ;)

You just never know what some of these people would do with this information. I understand the security purposes however, those of us who are law abiding citizens, have to draw the line somewhere. This is the line for me. :)

I think the initial shock of being asked, has led me to the determination of not providing copies of my licenses. ;)

I have used a credit card, and then, pay in cash at checkout, this works too, however, The drivers licenses issue only happened once. :eek: ;)

How very true that it sure is nothing like it used to be, :( Things are completely out of hand these days. You just never know anymore. I remember when you did not have to lock your doors at nite too!! :rolleyes: ;) Thanks again , and have a wonderful day. "DJ"

[Pedro Rodriguez]

Barbara, Thanks for your input, however, I will allow any one to view, my drivers licenses, just NOT take copies of it. :eek: :( ;)

You just never know what some of these people would do with this information. I understand the security purposes however, those of us who are law abiding citizens, have to draw the line somewhere. This is the line for me. :)

I think the initial shock of being asked, has led me to the determination of not providing copies of my licenses. ;)

I have used a credit card, and then, pay in cash at checkout, this works too, however, The drivers licenses issue only happened once. :eek: ;)

How very true that it sure is nothing like it used to be, :( Things are completely out of hand these days. You just never know anymore. I remember when you did not have to lock your doors at nite too!! :rolleyes: ;) Thanks again , and have a wonderful day. "DJ"



Well, you are right in "we law abiding citizens need to draw the line somewhere" but you have to see it to in this view, Hotels and alot of places that require ID for prove of payment are swiping the card onto there card reader to make sure you are a citizen or an alien or just a plain thief. On our license (new plastic style with stripe in the back like a credit card) have all our birth giving info and current address. So I agree with you 100% on drawing the line, but we as citizen of our great country, we need to crack down on our own "citizen" crooks that are making the money with immigrants and illegal aliens.

[Todd Heddleson]

hotel room keys thank you for the info i did know they put your name and address on the key cards, that's suppost to be in case you leave anything behind LOL!!!! I was in a hotel out west and forgot a 5.3 in t.v did I ever see it again, yes when i bought a new one. i did not know about my credit card number was on that card as well :eek: this gives new meaning to id theft.

[Todd Heddleson]

hotel room keys thank you for the info i did know they put your name and address on the key cards, that's suppost to be in case you leave anything behind LOL!!!! I was in a hotel out west and forgot a 5.3 in t.v did I ever see it again, yes when i bought a new one. i did not know about my credit card number being on that card as well :eek: this gives new meaning to id theft. :mad:

[Michael Harris]

Todd,

They found you from your registration. The key card has only the information to open the door.

You might want to read the entire thread.

[Todd Hunter -]

WOW! What great information for those of us who travel frequently! I never would have thought this would even be the case but thanks for the info. Good Job as usual!

Todd

[Flora Porter]

Todd,

They found you from your registration. The key card has only the information to open the door.

You might want to read the entire thread.
Hello Michael,

Thank you for stressing this point!


PI FPorter

[Michael Harris]

Flora,

Thank you for paying attention. Some of our members do not know enough to read carefully, yet.

[Michael Harris]

To All:

A few items you need to consider:


the key card only opens the door to your room, nothing else is on it
your credit card information is used to pay for your room, not to keep track of you
if the hotel asks for your driver's license, they want to make sure you are who you say you are - they do not record the information


You are safe using the key card. Hotels do not get upset if you lose them. If the hotels do not care if the key cards are lost, there must be a good reason. That reason is that there is nothing on the key card of value - therefore, no liability to the hotel.

You need to start thinking critically. Business does things for a reason - profit. Businesses do not do anything that costs them money unless the government makes them, the competition forces them, or they make a profit. Why would a hotel expend money they cannot recover to do something that makes no sense

[James Kazmirski]

I did find it awfully strange that the hotel room cards would contain that information. That's a huge liability and just doesn't add up. I'm glad people cleared it up that they contain no personal information.

[Pedro R Garcia]

Thank you so much for this information!! does anyone know if it's ok to keep these cards in all states, or all hotels?? will any of them charge us for doing so??

[Michael Harris]

Thank you so much for this information!! does anyone know if it's ok to keep these cards in all states, or all hotels?? will any of them charge us for doing so??
Pedro,

I have walked out with them in a half dozen states.

Last week I was at a Sheraton in Columbus, GA and when I checked out, I returned only one of the two cards I had. The desk clerk just tossed the one card in a drawer full of key cards. It was the same drawer that the desk clerk (upon check in) reached to get two to encode for my room.

Leave them unless they are too pretty not to.

[Frederick Budde]

To All:

A few items you need to consider:


the key card only opens the door to your room, nothing else is on it
your credit card information is used to pay for your room, not to keep track of you
if the hotel asks for your driver's license, they want to make sure you are who you say you are - they do not record the information


You are safe using the key card. Hotels do not get upset if you lose them. If the hotels do not care if the key cards are lost, there must be a good reason. That reason is that there is nothing on the key card of value - therefore, no liability to the hotel.

You need to start thinking critically. Business does things for a reason - profit. Businesses do not do anything that costs them money unless the government makes them, the competition forces them, or they make a profit. Why would a hotel expend money they cannot recover to do something that makes no sense

It appears to me the people most concerned about possible information on hotel key cards are the people who used EZPass to arrive at the hotel :)

[Michael Harris]

It appears to me the people most concerned about possible information on hotel key cards are the people who used EZPass to arrive at the hotel :)
Dr. Budde,

I never thought about it, but I think you might be on to something.

[Kalvin Kelly]

great information Deborah, thanks for writing this memo. Kalvin kelly

[Michael Harris]

great information Deborah, thanks for writing this memo. Kalvin kelly
Kalvin,

You got caught. The information in Deborah's original post is false. You need to read the entire thread to understand what is happening.

You need to follow that advice for all the threads you read - not just the first or last post.

I mentioned to you earlier that you were reading all the right threads, but I did not know that you might not have read all the posts in the threads.

One of the characteristics of a good investigator is thoroughness. Failing to read every one of the several hundred posts in a thread is not the way to start.

Please go back and read through the entire thread. Even some of the senior people in law enforcement lie to us now and then - for purely political reasons. Some people just like upsetting everyone. We must stand in the way of the evil and do what we can to promote truth (and justice). I would have added the American Way, but many of our brothers and sisters here in the IPIU forums are from other countries.

[Kalvin Kelly]

Thanks Michael for this information i'll be more meticlious in the future. Kalvin Kelly

[Michael Harris]

Kalvin,

I apoligize for taking so long to respond.

I wanted to say that I have a good feeling about you - you are learning from your reading and commenting. Keep it up.

[Luke A Slowik]

Wow that is amazing! A hotel key that keeps all of that confidential information. I am taking my keys with from now on!

[Michael Harris]

Wow that is amazing! A hotel key that keeps all of that confidential information. I am taking my keys with from now on!
Luke,

It is an Urban Legend. I was under the impression that the full thread explained this.

I have checked some of the 'official' law enforcement stories and found that they were politically motivated and completely unfounded.

I have checked with hotels - management and desk clerks. The room key card system is a stand-alone system and only has enough information to open your door.

One of the advantages that we older IPIU members have is that we did not have to read through many hundreds or thousands of posts in a thread to find the meat. You need to read the entire thread before commenting. Bad information is propagated by poor research.

[Luke A Slowik]

Luke,

It is an Urban Legend. I was under the impression that the full thread explained this.

I have checked some of the 'official' law enforcement stories and found that they were politically motivated and completely unfounded.

I have checked with hotels - management and desk clerks. The room key card system is a stand-alone system and only has enough information to open your door.

One of the advantages that we older IPIU members have is that we did not have to read through many hundreds or thousands of posts in a thread to find the meat. You need to read the entire thread before commenting. Bad information is propagated by poor research.

My fault. Sorry.

[Eric Catron]

I would just like to say if you feel strongly about your personnel info being put out there buy a tent or an RV.. or use a magnet as many have stated but as Mr. Harris Has clearly stated way back into page 3 or 4 of this thread its null, non-existent and doesn't happen.

How did this thread manage to carry on 6 pages later is beyond me. Although my research is focused in other areas of investigation currently I had to put my two cents in and say I agree with Mr. Harris there is no need for this redundant information being put on cards and that it simply does not happen.

If there is anybody that has credible proof that it does I would love to see the facts and the sources. I don't have an opinion either way to me its rather irrelevant to a point since most people handling your personnel info already has access immediately to it.

[Michael Harris]

I would just like to say if you feel strongly about your personnel info being put out there buy a tent or an RV.. or use a magnet as many have stated but as Mr. Harris Has clearly stated way back into page 3 or 4 of this thread its null, non-existent and doesn't happen.

How did this thread manage to carry on 6 pages later is beyond me. Although my research is focused in other areas of investigation currently I had to put my two cents in and say I agree with Mr. Harris there is no need for this redundant information being put on cards and that it simply does not happen.

If there is anybody that has credible proof that it does I would love to see the facts and the sources. I don't have an opinion either way to me its rather irrelevant to a point since most people handling your personnel info already has access immediately to it.
Eric,

You are correct - we resolved this years and pages ago. If a person would think about this logically, that person would realize that their is no buisness reason to link the key card system to the reservations or billing systems. The hotel already has the information in another database.

[Luke A Slowik]

Eric,

You are correct - we resolved this years and pages ago. If a person would think about this logically, that person would realize that their is no buisness reason to link the key card system to the reservations or billing systems. The hotel already has the information in another database.

Logic and train of thought are individualistic. One person that sees the logic of a problem does not mean that all others will see the logic of the problem in the same way. And the way a person gets there point across to someone is a whole other topic which I will not go into. I'm glad that you understood the premise so well Mr. Harris. Have a nice day.:)

[Eric Catron]

Luke
I wasn't personally pointing at you. I was just reading back through the pages of posts and noticed that it was stated several pages back about being a hoax.
Everybody has their own right to investigate to their own satisfaction..and believe me I have been guilty of not thoroughly reading all posts trying to get to the meat of the subject quicker.
I think you are an excellent source of information and I value your posts. especially on assets and LP so far.

[Luke A Slowik]

Luke
I wasn't personally pointing at you. I was just reading back through the pages of posts and noticed that it was stated several pages back about being a hoax.
Everybody has their own right to investigate to their own satisfaction..and believe me I have been guilty of not thoroughly reading all posts trying to get to the meat of the subject quicker.
I think you are an excellent source of information and I value your posts. especially on assets and LP so far.

Eric reply was not for you. I was explaining my position to Mr.Harris. If you read my whole response you will see my mention of his name. Thanks for the compliments and I hope to see you around. BTW, I believe I am not too far from you and Tammy R. I am in NW Illinois close to the Wisconsin border. See ya around...